Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[ferrisb]

I'm cold and I am shamed
Lying naked on the floor

Now, if only I could find some Torn lyrics to quote........

 

[Arr0w]

Allow me to trample all over this argument: we were dead last for F50 conversions with 33% last season.

I don't think Levi will develop the capacity to change that at the same rate as the rest of the forwards, if he can develop that at all.

I don't have access to shots taken from outside 50, but we can approximate:

View attachment 459523

Interesting

I would say that if it wasn't for Levi, those numbers would be even worse than they were, for 2017

Of players that kicked 30 goals or more (39 players) Levi ranked 12th for accuracy (65.40% conversion), and 5th overall for KPF's behind Brown, Jenkins, Hawkins and Patton

Strange that so many people still bag this average, limited footballer

 

[Jimmae]

Interesting

I would say that if it wasn't for Levi, those numbers would be even worse than they were, for 2017

Of players that kicked 30 goals or more (39 players) Levi ranked 12th for accuracy (65.40% conversion), and 5th overall for KPF's behind Brown, Jenkins, Hawkins and Patton

Strange that so many people still bag this average, limited footballer

These stats really don't paint the whole picture on why I feel that way, as making him the primary focus of our forward line dramatically changes our tactics compared to players like Riewoldt, Hogan, Franklin, etc.

There's a reason they call him 'Meat'.

 

[Arr0w]

These stats really don't paint the whole picture on why I feel that way, as making him the primary focus of our forward line dramatically changes our tactics compared to players like Riewoldt, Hogan, Franklin, etc.

There's a reason they call him 'Meat'.

Many people say stats are overrated and I generally agree. But take into account a couple of things for 2017 season

• Ranked 9th for accuracy
• Ranked 17th for I50

Levi ranked 3rd for contested marks, 15th for marks I50. A fair effort, for less opportunities compared to his cohorts

Get the ball forward more often and we will be more competitive, pretty simple

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Interesting

I would say that if it wasn't for Levi, those numbers would be even worse than they were, for 2017

Of players that kicked 30 goals or more (39 players) Levi ranked 12th for accuracy (65.40% conversion), and 5th overall for KPF's behind Brown, Jenkins, Hawkins and Patton

Strange that so many people still bag this average, limited footballer

Serious question. Does the accuracy stat include out of bounds on the full or shanks that don’t reach the goals. I don’t think it does...

 

[Azzurro]

Never ignored anyone on here, but I’m hovering over a few names based on this relentless JSOS questioning.

A debate is all good and well, but how about we all get around the young lads for a ****ing change?

2nd year blues abound, and talent takes time to shine.

I genuinely hate how negative our supporter base is towards our own players - especially on game day. Worst in the league. Putrid at times, and utterly embarrassing.

Take a long hard look at yourselves. That said, self awareness is probably not your thing, so you won’t even know who you are.

I’ll be there backing the lads as they continue this journey together. And I’ll thank the ones that don’t make it nearly as much as those that do - because it’s only going to get harder from here to maintain a spot on this incredible list SOS is building.

Buckled in and ready!

 

[Arr0w]

Serious question. Does the accuracy stat include out of bounds on the full or shanks that don’t reach the goals. I don’t think it does...

Do you think he is the only forward that has shanked a shot on goal. It's easy to focus on a players limitations or weaknesses, rather than his strengthens, when a side is losing

 

[katmanblue]

I'm cold and I am shamed
Lying naked on the floor

Now, if only I could find some Torn lyrics to quote........

You're a little late

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[therubbernub]

Those Garlett highlights are concerning. Kicked it to the opposition very often. [emoji53]

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

Rankine has him covered for disposal, but similar tricks

 

[RAPPA]

Never ignored anyone on here, but I’m hovering over a few names based on this relentless JSOS questioning.

A debate is all good and well, but how about we all get around the young lads for a ******* change?

2nd year blues abound, and talent takes time to shine.

I genuinely hate how negative our supporter base is towards our own players - especially on game day. Worst in the league. Putrid at times, and utterly embarrassing.

Take a long hard look at yourselves. That said, self awareness is probably not your thing, so you won’t even know who you are.

I’ll be there backing the lads as they continue this journey together. And I’ll thank the ones that don’t make it nearly as much as those that do - because it’s only going to get harder from here to maintain a spot on this incredible list SOS is building.

Buckled in and ready!

Seems like a few are giving JSOS the Jason/Cam Cloke treatment as we seek to snare Ben

 

[LanceRomance]

Never ignored anyone on here, but I’m hovering over a few names based on this relentless JSOS questioning.

A debate is all good and well, but how about we all get around the young lads for a ******* change?

2nd year blues abound, and talent takes time to shine.

I genuinely hate how negative our supporter base is towards our own players - especially on game day. Worst in the league. Putrid at times, and utterly embarrassing.

Take a long hard look at yourselves. That said, self awareness is probably not your thing, so you won’t even know who you are.

I’ll be there backing the lads as they continue this journey together. And I’ll thank the ones that don’t make it nearly as much as those that do - because it’s only going to get harder from here to maintain a spot on this incredible list SOS is building.

Buckled in and ready!

I agree . JSOS just knows how to do stuff

 

[LordLucifer]

Never ignored anyone on here, but I’m hovering over a few names based on this relentless JSOS questioning.

A debate is all good and well, but how about we all get around the young lads for a ******* change?

2nd year blues abound, and talent takes time to shine.

I genuinely hate how negative our supporter base is towards our own players - especially on game day. Worst in the league. Putrid at times, and utterly embarrassing.

Take a long hard look at yourselves. That said, self awareness is probably not your thing, so you won’t even know who you are.

I’ll be there backing the lads as they continue this journey together. And I’ll thank the ones that don’t make it nearly as much as those that do - because it’s only going to get harder from here to maintain a spot on this incredible list SOS is building.

Buckled in and ready!

People are entitled to make comment & pass judgement just like you are.

As for young Silvagni, I have concerns that he may be Troy Menzel Mark II, we will know if that is true later in the year.

 

[bluemahogany]

People are entitled to make comment & pass judgement just like you are.

As for young Silvagni, I have concerns that he may be Troy Menzel Mark II, we will know if that is true later in the year.

Considering Menzel's problem is he has no commitment, this is a truly awful comparison...

 

[Weiterbot23]

People are entitled to make comment & pass judgement just like you are.

As for young Silvagni, I have concerns that he may be Troy Menzel Mark II, we will know if that is true later in the year.

I reckon the idea of Jsos is worse than the reality

He isn't fast, tall enough, not a booming kick or dead eye set shot (he was very accurate in the twos though so this should improve), however he is just a good footballer, might not have an easy to define role, but he is just... good.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Many people say stats are overrated and I generally agree. But take into account a couple of things for 2017 season

• Ranked 9th for accuracy
• Ranked 17th for I50

Levi ranked 3rd for contested marks, 15th for marks I50. A fair effort, for less opportunities compared to his cohorts

Get the ball forward more often and we will be more competitive, pretty simple

Gotta wonder how many he would have kicked and where he would've ranked in those stats if we had another ~400 forward entries. 50-60 goals?
Would he still be getting as heavily bagged with that kind of haul?

 

[HARKER]

Let's be honest. No matter what we think of Casboult, Thomas, Lamb or Kerridge for that matter, they're all likely to get first opportunity, if for no other reason than a required-experience balance. If they don't make good of that opportunity and all being well, the guys underneath will be ready to pounce.

If though Casboult s performing but Mckay is performing better.....then great.
" "" Thomas is performing, but Garlett is doing more............then terrific again.
" "" Lamb is performing, but O'Brien is a gun.......................fantastic
" "" Kerridge is performing, but Dow is exploding.................how good would that be?

Players don't have to necessarily fail to be playing seconds.
Would love for our NB's team to finish top 4 next year. If that was to come about, you could bet that the senior side exceeded all expectations.

 

[footyfan1978]

I'm cold and I am shamed
Lying naked on the floor

Now, if only I could find some Torn lyrics to quote........

I think you should sing it with him.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Gotta wonder how many he would have kicked and where he would've ranked in those stats if we had another ~400 forward entries. 50-60 goals?
Would he still be getting as heavily bagged with that kind of haul?

Would be very interesting not sure we'll ever find out though . Also not sure how any player gets any criticism playing in our forwardline over the past few years and the best part of 20 years in fact . Certainly not an easy gig for a player of Levi's size . Since Levi has established himself in the side so not counting his first 2 or 3 years has he ever played in a semi dominant Carlton side ? .

 

[Juddernaut08]

I'm not sure it's really too tall. Weits, March and Plow are pretty mobile, not traditional gorilla KPDs. For arguments sake I'll line them up against Richmond and Adelaide's starting 6s from the GF. Considering the Ade and Rich fwd lines are almost opposite of each other and the extremes (1 vs 4) there's not a massive amount of difference.

Jones 198 / Astbury 195 / Talia 197
Weitering 195 / Rance 194 / Lever 195
Marchbank 193 / Grimes 193 / Hartigan 194
Plowman 191 / Broad 192 / Seedsman 189
Williamson 189 / Vlastuin 187 / Brown 181
Simpson 181 / Houli 180 / Laird 177

Fair point, but I think it's where the game is moving.

Not saying any of them are slow for KPD's, but the fact is that they are not going to be as agile as a medium defender like Tuohy/Seedsman/Byrne.

Put simply, Plowman would get killed by a nimble small forward.

 

[LordLucifer]

Considering Menzel's problem is he has no commitment, this is a truly awful comparison...

Wrong theory.

My concern is that after Menzel's first year at the club everyone thought we had 'something here'. In the years following that, he hardly improved his output onfield or developed his game any further than when he first arrived.

 

[cookie monster]

Never ignored anyone on here, but I’m hovering over a few names based on this relentless JSOS questioning.

A debate is all good and well, but how about we all get around the young lads for a ******* change?

2nd year blues abound, and talent takes time to shine.

I genuinely hate how negative our supporter base is towards our own players - especially on game day. Worst in the league. Putrid at times, and utterly embarrassing.

Take a long hard look at yourselves. That said, self awareness is probably not your thing, so you won’t even know who you are.

I’ll be there backing the lads as they continue this journey together. And I’ll thank the ones that don’t make it nearly as much as those that do - because it’s only going to get harder from here to maintain a spot on this incredible list SOS is building.

Buckled in and ready!

"Relentless JSOS Questioning"

"Debate is good and well"

"Take a long hard look at yourselves"

So it's not bashing, it's just questioning. Are opinions not allowed to be shared here?

You like him, so do I. I just think that he needs to show a little more this year. Does that mean I need to stare in the mirror a little longer?

 

[BluStreak]

with JSOS there is a heavy load of expectation on those shoulders as well.
expectations from supporters
expectations from family
expectations from club
expectations from himself.

I say just give him time. That expectation load should dissipate when Ben joins as some of it shifts to him.

 

[Iamcarlton]

"Relentless JSOS Questioning"

"Debate is good and well"

"Take a long hard look at yourselves"

So it's not bashing, it's just questioning. Are opinions not allowed to be shared here?

You like him, so do I. I just think that he needs to show a little more this year. Does that mean I need to stare in the mirror a little longer?

Long hard look possibly
Imo he may well spend a little time in the reserves is that because he's not up to it or not improving no . Team balance with more competition for spots with more smalls up forward in need . Mckay if fit imo will get preference . Jack has plenty of time theres no hurry and probably played more seniors than his body was up to last year anyway .

 

[CJMB]

I reckon the idea of Jsos is worse than the reality

He isn't fast, tall enough, not a booming kick or dead eye set shot (he was very accurate in the twos though so this should improve), however he is just a good footballer, might not have an easy to define role, but he is just... good.

Like all those comments about how a lot of recruiters thought Laird was too small, too slow, disposal wasn't damaging enough, etc. I think we can say he's gone on to be an alright player despite all of that.

Fair point, but I think it's where the game is moving.

Not saying any of them are slow for KPD's, but the fact is that they are not going to be as agile as a medium defender like Tuohy/Seedsman/Byrne.

Put simply, Plowman would get killed by a nimble small forward.

Plow ain't that much bigger than those guys; 2cm taller than Seedsman and 4cm over the two Irishmen. I'm not sure he'd be that much worse defending a small than them either. It's not like we're trying to get Plow to be our answer to Neville Jetta or Nick Smith...

 

[Weiterbot23]

Who do we put on a Cyril Rioli or Eddie Betts?