Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Arr0w]

Thanks for the update Arr0w Very surprised at Levi's ranking , certainly a lot higher than i would have thought.

It's that ugly kicking action that emphasis his misses. Having said that, it has improved.

 

[Dadda Dave]

Biggest difference between Menzel and JSOS, work-rate

And that ******* manbun

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

The amount of defense that Hughes and Russell got on here was ridiculous, anyone who questioned either ability as a recruiter or player was burnt at the stake, but those posters were right.

Agree.

I was one of those posters who called out the Russell pick early on (you can view some of my threads at the time) and was ridiculed.

The fact remains that Russell was picked largely on the back of one game where he played second fiddle to Ryan Griffen in the SA midfield and racked up big numbers.

His game was never going to transition to a midfielder at AFL level - and it never did.

 

[HARKER]

Agree.

I was one of those posters who called out the Russell pick early on (you can view some of my threads at the time) and was ridiculed.

The fact remains that Russell was picked largely on the back of one game where he played second fiddle to Ryan Griffen in the SA midfield and racked up big numbers.

His game was never going to transition to a midfielder at AFL level - and it never did.

Have we the opportunity to hear who you wanted though?

Have a good look at the 2004 draft and tell me what you see, post Russell, pick #9? Not really much there was there?

 

[Toddski]

Blind faith.....nah, the kid is a footballer. Problem is most don’t like the fact he’s not an athlete.
The kid is a very good footballer and we should be impressed with what he has done in only his 2nd year as a deep key forward in most games.

Jack is still growing into his frame. I walked past him a month ago, I'm 6'3 and he had me covered. Rangy type. Hoping he becomes our Gunston. Great kid as well.

Most know me as a harsh poster and I was shot down frequently on a different Carlton forum for expressing my disappointment with Hughes and Rogers. I also literally collapsed to the floor in visible agony when we drafted Boekhorst with our first round pick.

So take my highly critical point of view with a grain of salt, when I forecast JSOS as a 150 plus gamer with great leadership potential.

 

[HARKER]

The amount of defense that Hughes and Russell got on here was ridiculous, anyone who questioned either ability as a recruiter or player was burnt at the stake, but those posters were right.


Sometimes the club does need to hear it, the thing I can't get over was Lucas over Talia, all the smart draft watches on here we're screaming for Talia...if forum dwellers get it right, how could the club have got it so wrong!?!? But for the next 24 months we had to sit through ridiculous praise and admiration of Lucas from hysterical positive fans.


That said since SOS came back we are nailing picks in the 60s and are gunna dominate for 10 years and we should get 42 AAs next year

It's weird how many times we have to go back to nailing the errors of our ways to one or two individuals.

We have 2 List Managers now. Who did we have a few year ago?
Make up your own combinations of Swann, Rogers, McKay, Icke, Kernahan, Hughes, Ratten, Board members etc.

Now if someone can't find a fiercely dedicated List Management contingent amongst that grouping............you simple aren't looking.

 

[Arr0w]

It's weird how many times we have to go back to nailing the errors of our ways to one or two individuals.

We have 2 List Managers now. Who did we have a few year ago?
Make up your own combinations of Swann, Rogers, McKay, Icke, Kernahan, Hughes, Ratten, Board members etc.

Now if someone can't find a fiercely dedicated List Management contingent amongst that grouping............you simple aren't looking.

I agree with some of your previous posts, that the blame should not lay solely on the likes of Rogers and Hughes, but that also shows how weak of character they were if they were persuaded to pick differently from the power brokers around them

 

[Blueballs38]

Yes let’s all follow blindly and not be allowed to question anything they do and alienate any supporters who have a differing opinion. Sounds like a great culture to be a part of. Would far to prefer we encouraged the exact opposite. Besides. Hardly anyone has potted jack. At the most it is just concern over a few of his observable traits.

Hey man pot whoever u like as long as its not a Silvagni.

You just have to accept that the force runs strong in the family and leave it there.

Why poke the eyes outta the potato just enjoy the ride.

Then in 5 years come back to this post and realise how silly you were for questioning following blindly.

I don't advocate that either .... normally ... but this is Steve god damn Silvagni, full back of the century, and I don't know if u have noticed but for the first time in about 15 years I can again feel proud to be a Blues supporter. Much of that is the incredible job that SOS has done.

Has there been a family who collectively has done more for CFC? I doubt it.

So show a little respect and pay homage to House Silvagni .... its not following blindly its following someone who for the first time in 15 years know what the hell he is doing!

Finally I just want you to try and appreciate this .... being a champion aint easy, there is a special thing in all champions that separates them from everybody else. If u could bottle it and sell it you would be a trillionaire. But u can't, u r either born with it or not.

The Silvagni's have it in spades and thank Christ they are ours!

I grew up expecting success, because that was what it was to be a Blues supporter. And after all this time when I see a guy who doesn't back down, makes people his b*tch in trades rather than the other way around. When I see a list that is coming together beautifully after only three years when before it was so dire it was humiliating. But then I have to read ur response well tbh I think to myself ... this guy don't get it.

But hey its cool, its a forum. and u r more than entitled to your opinion.

But all I can say is that if SOS gave me an orange and told me take a bite outta the apple and tell him what I think of the taste.

Id tell him it was the juiciest, tastiest Apple Id ever eaten!

Blind .... we have been blind for 15 years .... House Silvagn is the eye opener

 

[HARKER]

I agree with some of your previous post, that the blame should not lay solely on the likes of Rogers and Hughes, but that also shows how weak of character they were if they were persuaded to pick differently from the power brokers around them

Yes, but the weak of character had a long chain attached, when Mathieson still carried the whip in hand.
All we want now, is that the people charged with responsibilities can carry them out of their own accord.
Most are happy to fall on their own swords, but it's somewhat distasteful to have to take the fall on others' swords for their meddling.

 

[Arr0w]

Yes, but the weak of character had a long chain attached, when Mathieson still carried the whip in hand.
All we want now, is that the people charged with responsibilities can carry them out of their own accord.
Most are happy to fall on their own swords, but it's somewhat distasteful to have to take the fall on others' swords for their meddling.

Some would rather be sacked for being strong and defiant to their beliefs. "Wrong or right, but never in doubt"

Most live as yes people and rarely have respect or success

 

[PrinceCharles]

I have a talent for picking future certainties after their first few games .... knew Cripps was gonna be a beast before many on here .... not tooting my horn but JSOS is a damn good footballer and will be around a long long time.

It’s a forum so u can pot him but u better be ready to eat humble pie over the next 3-5 years!

Personally anyone who has anything bad to say about House Silvagni and is a blues supporter should g barrack for another team!

That family is CFC royalty for glories sake!

I'd suggest going back to the Cripps welcome thread, most were pretty excited by him before he had even played a game.

 

[johnno73]

Passionate, quality post BB38

I think what Jack brings is whole lot of heart and pride back to the Carlton jumper and it’s pretty evident in the way he goes about it.

It’s great to see that and i think it rubs off on the other young blokes in the team, it says this is a club with heart and pride again and we are on the rise.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Hey man pot whoever u like as long as its not a Silvagni.

You just have to accept that the force runs strong in the family and leave it there.

Why poke the eyes outta the potato just enjoy the ride.

Then in 5 years come back to this post and realise how silly you were for questioning following blindly.

I don't advocate that either .... normally ... but this is Steve god damn Silvagni, full back of the century, and I don't know if u have noticed but for the first time in about 15 years I can again feel proud to be a Blues supporter. Much of that is the incredible job that SOS has done.

Has there been a family who collectively has done more for CFC? I doubt it.

So show a little respect and pay homage to House Silvagni .... its not following blindly its following someone who for the first time in 15 years know what the hell he is doing!

Finally I just want you to try and appreciate this .... being a champion aint easy, there is a special thing in all champions that separates them from everybody else. If u could bottle it and sell it you would be a trillionaire. But u can't, u r either born with it or not.

The Silvagni's have it in spades and thank Christ they are ours!

I grew up expecting success, because that was what it was to be a Blues supporter. And after all this time when I see a guy who doesn't back down, makes people his b*tch in trades rather than the other way around. When I see a list that is coming together beautifully after only three years when before it was so dire it was humiliating. But then I have to read ur response well tbh I think to myself ... this guy don't get it.

But hey its cool, its a forum. and u r more than entitled to your opinion.

But all I can say is that if SOS gave me an orange and told me take a bite outta the apple and tell him what I think of the taste.

Id tell him it was the juiciest, tastiest Apple Id ever eaten!

Blind .... we have been blind for 15 years .... House Silvagn is the eye opener

Not only did I not knock Silvagni, you’ve now told me to show some respect. Show some respect to your fellow fan champ.

 

[bmaurizio]

Jack Silvagni is a quality person , good team player has sharp footy IQ, forward mobility, and obviously great linage. All the Silvagni boys will show plenty during their proud Bagger careers.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I’m no genius but a lot of the time u can see who will make it and who will not .... Silvagni just looks like he will.

You forget at the time Cripps was a reach. And no his first few games were not outstanding but he showed glimpses.

I saw one no look handball that reminded me of Deisel and that was it I knew he was a gun.

The Cripps train did not roll out of the station straight away.

And no most didn’t think so, most didn’t know, all were hopeful as with all new recruits.

Anyway if I was sooooooo good I’d be CFCs head recruiter and as I am not .... well .... let’s just say like the rest of you I’m a damn good armchair recruiter.

But seriously I would have /even way better than Rogers!

A chimp with a hankering for alphabet soup could have picked better recruits out of the soup than Rogers and Hughes!

I give you credit. You do like tooting you're own horn and forcing it down peoples throats.

And i don't forget anything about cripps fyi

 

[Weiterbot23]

It's weird how many times we have to go back to nailing the errors of our ways to one or two individuals.

We have 2 List Managers now. Who did we have a few year ago?
Make up your own combinations of Swann, Rogers, McKay, Icke, Kernahan, Hughes, Ratten, Board members etc.

Now if someone can't find a fiercely dedicated List Management contingent amongst that grouping............you simple aren't looking.

I'm making the point that we can be overly positive as a board.

I've been a very positive poster in recent times and believe there is a lot to be optimistic about, the 2015 and 16 drafts/ trade periods have been spectacular so far as could 2017 (will soon find out).


However around 2012, when the club went to s**t posters were getting smashed for the slightest suggestions of negativity, when clearly we were making terrible clangers off and on field.

You couldn't question the McLean selection for example

I like when posters are negative on a player/coach/CEO if
they bring a good argument.

 

[cookie monster]

I'm making the point that we can be overly positive as a board.

I've been a very positive poster in recent times and believe there is a lot to be optimistic about, the 2015 and 16 drafts/ trade periods have been spectacular so far as could 2017 (will soon find out).


However around 2012, when the club went to s**t posters were getting smashed for the slightest suggestions of negativity, when clearly we were making terrible clangers off and on field.

You couldn't question the McLean selection for example

I like when posters are negative on a player/coach/CEO if
they bring a good argument.

Critical analysis is how you keep decision makers honest. It's called free speech and it's principle of democratic society.

A number of posters here clearly looking for slaps on the back in shooting it down. Bless them. It's good to see the mods not buying into the nonsense though.

 

[Blueballs38]

Not only did I not knock Silvagni, you’ve now told me to show some respect. Show some respect to your fellow fan champ.

If u can’t see that was tongue in cheek fair enough .... I think I’m a relic in this out of control PC world.

Saying that I have and always will be in the Silvagni’s corner.

Sport is fodder for the masses keeps 5hhem subdued in times of crisis ... this has been going on since ancient times.

And what do the masses crave in their sport?

Fairytales.

Now at the moment the fairytale pans out as follows .....


Club legend who has been alienated (unfairly) by the power brokers of the club takes his leave and gains experience elsewhere with the knowledge that one day he will return when the time is right.

As his three boys grow to maturity his sees his beloved club sink to the sort of lows never experienced by the club.

He sees the gross mismanagement, former great players come and go, making things worse.

But in the end there really is only one family that could save the club.

I don’t know but since his return the club hasn’t put a foot wrong and I don’t think there is a Blues supporter who doesn’t see that. Was it his influence? Who knows?

One thing I do know as u get older u realise there are no such thing as coincidences.

So sorry if u got offended, it was not my intention.

Just a little tongue in cheek humour with one serious note ....


The name Silvagni is a name that really only stands for one thing .....

The betterment of CFC.

I think we can all get behind that.

 

[Blueballs38]

I'd suggest going back to the Cripps welcome thread, most were pretty excited by him before he had even played a game.

I think I may.

I’m not saying none of us where excited .... we are always excited by all recruits .... go back to the Bootsma thread ... soooo many people tripping over themselves. But in reality he was our first pick in a compromised draft who lets face it turned out to be a lump of coal who liked to polish himself a lot, but couldn’t turn himself into a diamond.

But until a player plays no one knows if his skill can take the leap to the bigtime.

Yes we may have all been excited and for those that picked it good on them all I remember is telling my brother in law what a gun Cripps was going to be, you could just tell after a couple of games.

But I am not so arrogant to think I was the only one, but I do remember staking my total footy knowledge credibility (which I will be honest is laughable) on him being a gun so yeah I think I’m worthy of being SOS’s gofer!

 

[HARKER]

I like when posters are negative on a player/coach/CEO if they bring a good argument.

It's a poor day when any reasonable discussions get shut down because they don't follow the popular, or in some cases, manipulated narrative.
It does happen on this board though, as it happens elsewhere, but maybe we'll get better as we go along. Maybe.

Dylan Buckley wasn't a name we liked raised here as someone who may not make it, until it became more and more obvious this would be the case.
Unlike Dylan though, Jack Silvagni has genuine football smarts, but is short of tools that may make him a premium player. It's not totally unfair to bring his name up as someone who may struggle to find a perfect home on the ground.....and then he may not. Still early days.

 

[Blueballs38]

It's a poor day when any reasonable discussions get shut down because they don't follow the popular, or in some cases, manipulated narrative.
It does happen on this board though, as it happens elsewhere, but maybe we'll get better as we go along. Maybe.

Dylan Buckley wasn't a name we liked raised here as someone who may not make it, until it became more and more obvious this would be the case.
Unlike Dylan though, Jack Silvagni has genuine football smarts, but is short of tools that may make him a premium player. It's not totally unfair to bring his name up as someone who may struggle to find a perfect home on the ground.....and then he may not. Still early days.

Nicely rounded Harks, I think JSOS will make it, but in footy no one should be a protected species .... it is hard not to get caught up in the romance of a father/son or in this case a grandfather/father/son

 

[RAPPA]

Have we the opportunity to hear who you wanted though?

Have a good look at the 2004 draft and tell me what you see, post Russell, pick #9? Not really much there was there?

are you joking? We could've had any one of Andrew Mcqualter, Dean Polo or Andrew Iacobucci instead :O

 

[Weiterbot23]

are you joking? We could've had any one of Andrew Mcqualter, Dean Polo or Andrew Iacobucci instead :O

We should have been tanking that year anyway

 

[LordLucifer]

With the recent adjustments to the list (ie. over the past 2-3 years), the number of players who are "under the microscope" is getting smaller & smaller.

From my perspective, the ones who will come under scrutiny are :

Murphy - retire in a couple of years time
Simpson - retire
Kerridge - maybe, maybe not
Lamb - in limbo now
Garlett - thrown a lifeline, needs to take it
Rowe - retire
Mullett - short-term option only
O'Shea - short term option only
Phillips/Lobbe - one of them may not last much longer
Polson - may need to press his claims more
Graham - time to deliver or else
Thomas - retire
Casboult - short-term option only
Wright - retire
Cuningham - may need to press his claims more
Kerr - may need to press his claims more

I'm not suggesting that all of those named will automatically be dispensed with, just that that is where the changes will come from going forward.

The best part about that list is that it is largely made up of players who are on the verge of retirement, short-term options or some of the youngers guys who still have the chance to make the grade.

The list is looking healthier & healthier and there is real competition for places in the senior team, no-one gets "gifted" a game now.

 

[ferrisb]

With the recent adjustments to the list (ie. over the past 2-3 years), the number of players who are "under the microscope" is getting smaller & smaller.

From my perspective, the ones who will come under scrutiny are :

Murphy - retire in a couple of years time
Simpson - retire
Kerridge - maybe, maybe not
Lamb - in limbo now
Garlett - thrown a lifeline, needs to take it
Rowe - retire
Mullett - short-term option only
O'Shea - short term option only
Phillips/Lobbe - one of them may not last much longer
Polson - may need to press his claims more
Graham - time to deliver or else
Thomas - retire
Casboult - short-term option only
Wright - retire
Cuningham - may need to press his claims more
Kerr - may need to press his claims more

I'm not suggesting that all of those named will automatically be dispensed with, just that that is where the changes will come from going forward.

The best part about that list is that it is largely made up of players who are on the verge of retirement, short-term options or some of the youngers guys who still have the chance to make the grade.

The list is looking healthier & healthier and there is real competition for places in the senior team, no-one gets "gifted" a game now.

Phew. That's so much easier to read than when you used to have 90% of the list on there!

(Is a comment on the state of the lists, not taking a pot shot at your critical eye...)