Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[TheHeatleyStand]

List management discussion? Oh ok then

 

[HARKER]

The suggestion of trading Weitering, with all due respect is short sighted and possibly the worst idea I've read all day.

The kid is 19 in his second year, do people forget he was head and shoulders above any KPP in his draft year. We won't be much good for another 3 or 4 years, when Weiters will be 23 and at his peak.

Yes we may have a lot of options in defence now, but what about in 3 or 4 years time. Let's not do a Josh Kennedy and then see Weiters flourish at some other club as a key forward or defender for 10 years.....**** that.

Even taking out the notion of a Weitering trade, would we be a better team going forward had have we taken Oliver and not Weitering.
One would have been taken for needs and one was widely regarded as the best player in the draft?

Given the stocks we acquired last year (Marchbank & Macreadie) and with miracle man Jones coming on, I feel that unless Weitering plays forward of the back-line, we may have come up with a net loss. We may not like to admit that, but it's very possible.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

How are we going to go forward with multiple key defenders? ( no pun intended)
A cluster of defenders where you need critical mass through the midfield

 

[Chism]

List management discussion? Oh ok then

You have an agenda you are pushing and not letting it go with a hate for Jacob.

We all know this and you are free to hold whatever opinion you want but when it becomes a constant narrative that keeps derailing threads about trading a 2nd year KPP defender taken at No.1 in the national draft it gets tired real quick.

Maybe stick to Facebook pages and TC as it is doing nothing towards adding to decent discussion at all and it is written into the rules of this board about pedaling agendas on a constant basis that are disruptive and really just plain rubbish.

 

[tarczonandjane]

How are we going to go forward with multiple key defenders? ( no pun intended)
A cluster of defenders where you need critical mass through the midfield

One option is to hold onto them for another couple of years, hit the draft for midfielders in the meantime, and then trade the key defenders when you have a better idea where the holes on the list are. I still think Weitering is a forward anyway.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Even taking out the notion of a Weitering trade, would we be a better team going forward had have we taken Oliver and not Weitering.
One would have been taken for needs and one was widely regarded as the best player in the draft?

Given the stocks we acquired last year (Marchbank & Macreadie) and with miracle man Jones coming on, I feel that unless Weitering plays forward of the back-line, we may have come up with a net loss. We may not like to admit that, but it's very possible.

Possible yes. The no.1 pick vs the field debate.

Oliver Cripps midfield would be devastating

Weiters I think will still be better longer term. KPPs take time and all tht

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

I want Kelly over five key defenders
I would welcome gws to choose any except Macreadie!
Plowman and marchbank wanted to leave them and come home
Basically that leaves weitering and Jones
They can choose either ONE!
I'm not fussed!
How's that?
If they chose Jones
Weitering would need to step up as a lock down defender next year though

 

[Wickzki]

Even taking out the notion of a Weitering trade, would we be a better team going forward had have we taken Oliver and not Weitering.
One would have been taken for needs and one was widely regarded as the best player in the draft?

Given the stocks we acquired last year (Marchbank & Macreadie) and with miracle man Jones coming on, I feel that unless Weitering plays forward of the back-line, we may have come up with a net loss. We may not like to admit that, but it's very possible.

I've never seen such hindsight thinking in my life and I'm shocked to see it from you, Harks.

Are we forgetting that Oliver was the absolute bolter of the draft? That Melbourne, at the time, were criticized for the selection with Francis and Parish both on the board?

If not Weitering then it would have been Schache and I'm thankful we went JW.

 

[HARKER]

How are we going to go forward with multiple key defenders? ( no pun intended)
A cluster of defenders where you need critical mass through the midfield

The noise coming from the CFC is clear for our need for mids, so what we have to do to attain them will be interesting.
Just can't see us leaning back, hands on head and saying, "We'll just go to the draft"

It's going to take bold decisions to expedite our move up the ladder.
Not silly decisions but well planned and executed ones and if we don't like them? Bad luck.

 

[Azul]

Oliver Cripps midfield would be devastating

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

The noise coming from the CFC is clear for our need for mids, so what we have to do to attain them will be interesting.
Just can't see us leaning back, hands on head and saying, "We'll just go to the draft"

It's going to take bold decisions to expedite our move up the ladder.
Not silly decisions but well planned and executed ones and if we don't like them? Bad luck.

Can you imagine if casboult indeed isn't wanted and crows decide they're going to pass on Bryce?
No second round pick
A midfield same as this year's only older and a first year player from a no standout draft?

 

[HARKER]

I've never seen such hindsight thinking in my life and I'm shocked to see it from you, Harks.

Are we forgetting that Oliver was the absolute bolter of the draft? That Melbourne, at the time, were criticized for the selection with Francis and Parish both on the board?

If not Weitering then it would have been Schache and I'm thankful we went JW.

It is playing to another argument of taking best or needs in the draft and I know that there was nothing wrong with taking Weitering. (read what I wrote)

Weitering will be at the club for a long time yet regardless of the hypotheticals we put up, but it is possible that some hard decisions may need to be made.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

I don't think people understand the gravity of where we really at

 

[Chism]

I want Kelly over five key defenders
I would welcome gws to choose any except Macreadie!
Plowman and marchbank wanted to leave them and come home
Basically that leaves weitering and Jones
They can choose either ONE!
I'm not fussed!
How's that?
If they chose Jones
Weitering would need to step up as a lock down defender next year though

You can think whatever you like and are free to on here.

But when it becomes an agenda though and every post across the board is a JW bash that is when you are going to be pulled up like the boards rules suggest as we all know your opinion and do not need it plastered all over this place derailing threads.

Move on.

 

[HARKER]

Can you imagine if casboult indeed isn't wanted and crows decide they're going to pass on Bryce?
No second round pick
A midfield same as this year's only older and a first year player from a no standout draft?

It's not just for the pick but for what may amount to poor planning by fattening up the back-line and forward-line, but running threadbare through where it counts most; The midfield.

Anyway, that's not going to happen.......unless SOS goes all 'Rogers' and takes Brander at our first pick.

 

[Jimmae]

Even taking out the notion of a Weitering trade, would we be a better team going forward had have we taken Oliver and not Weitering.
One would have been taken for needs and one was widely regarded as the best player in the draft?

Given the stocks we acquired last year (Marchbank & Macreadie) and with miracle man Jones coming on, I feel that unless Weitering plays forward of the back-line, we may have come up with a net loss. We may not like to admit that, but it's very possible.

Harks, you're assuming that all of those players will become true KPPs, all of them will remain in defence, etc.

With Rowe and White a chance to not be here in 2019, we've got time on our side to sort this out. If the club only acquire Redpath as a rookie or DFA in lieu of using a pick in the 100s, that's about the only non-rucking tall we'll bring in.

However, we'll need to punt JGM, Gorringe & Korcheck ASAP.

Right now, we have Weitering, ASOS, Rowe and Jones who can play key defence, and that's probably going to remain the case in 2018.

 

[Navara79]

I don't think people understand the gravity of where we really at

People do know exactly where we are at but the suggestion to trade a number one pick who is a KPD after his 2nd year is sheer lunacy

 

[GoBlues!]

Even taking out the notion of a Weitering trade, would we be a better team going forward had have we taken Oliver and not Weitering.
One would have been taken for needs and one was widely regarded as the best player in the draft?.

Maybe in the short term Harks, but not in the long run. I'm trying to project 3 plus years from now when we're hopefully pushing into the 8 and above.

If as I suspect Weitering turns out to be a gun KPD or KPF, in 3 or 4 years when we begin our era of success Weitering may well be filling our needs when we need them..... much like Josh Kennedy would have over the past 10 years.

 

[Mr_Plow]

Harry Taylor was the most influential player on the field today.

No Selwood, no Duncan.

A midfield consisting of Dangerfield and Guthrie.

I think I'll keep Weitering, thanks.

As Mal (I think?) says, it's a lot easier to find gun mids than gun KPPs.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Jeez blue, that sort of timeframe is like the gap between the Olympic games. You must have zen like patience. The sport is an annual affair. We dont want a half measured rebuild but, 'there is no tomorrow'. Olympic athletes are normally the same age as our 'youngsters'. Im prepared for another year of trifling results but at some point the club has to field a competitve team. I guess where the magic lies is finding out the players who are besting their opponents more often than not. Whoever cant do that consistently needs to find a way (jones) or find another vocation, no matter who it is. Systems and tactics need to be malleable and same with the players. More to like about our blokes and coaches than not. But I hope its more like 2019 we are closer to the top than this expansion team record we have to cop at present. Hopefully the forensic work has been done and the club knows what it is doing, going for the top draft choices and losing all the time isnt how I have seen any of the best sports clubs operate. But Im in the trenches with you (until 2019)

Well what I meant by 'much' was top 4. I think next year we're in for more pain unfortunately. 2019 we will start to climb and possibly make the 8.

IF we can get Kelly this year and Shiel in 2019 off season, then we'll be top 4 in 2020 easy I'd even go as far as saying flag favourites. If we only get 1 of those 2, then I'd still fancy our top 4 chances. If we don't get either, then it's unlikely because I don't see our 2017/2018 drafted mids reaching their peak in only 1-2 years.

Charlie and McKay need more time. They'll take a couple of years before they reach their peak as well. Aside from Cripps and SPS we don't have any potentially elite young mids. In the meantime we'll lose Murphy, Simpson, Thomas and most likely Gibbs.

That's why I think 2020.

 

[HARKER]

Harks, you're assuming that all of those players will become true KPPs, all of them will remain in defence, etc.

With Rowe and White a chance to not be here in 2019, we've got time on our side to sort this out. If the club only acquire Redpath as a rookie or DFA in lieu of using a pick in the 100s, that's about the only non-rucking tall we'll bring in.

However, we'll need to punt JGM, Gorringe & Korcheck ASAP.

Right now, we have Weitering, ASOS, Rowe and Jones who can play key defence, and that's probably going to remain the case in 2018.

We're talking list management and I'm not assuming anything but basing things on some facts, some understanding of what we're looking for this year and maybe with a little insight to the future........and of course, I could be wrong on every call and things may change in the meantime.

We will be loading up on mids through this draft/trade period and maybe we've lucked it in having a glut of KPD's (Macreadie @ #47) was somewhat unexpected, but we fired the shot, ASilvagni is serving us brilliantly and then Jones (Who would have thought?)
So this is a good thing and that being the case, it's a better thing by converting a good thing into a greater thing.
If we do find ourselves with surplus quality KPD's, do we try and manufacture new roles for them or to be trade to advantage for needs?
I know which direction I feel to be the better, but you may be right.......we may just try and massage things to fit.

 

[rp84]

People will remember how good jw is next year, fit and hopefully with a defined role

 

[I AM CARLTON]

How are we going to go forward with multiple key defenders? ( no pun intended)
A cluster of defenders where you need critical mass through the midfield

We dont have a cluster of defenders Jones and Weitering key defenderd Marchbank to play 3rd tall. Most teams have this. Rowe and ASOS wont be around much longer.

Macreadie hasnt proven anything yet and dont tell me he is better than Weitering cause if he was the match commitee would be selcting him before Weitering which they arent.

 

[Juddernaut08]

LIST BUILDING 102 - Trust The Process

When we traded for Judd, the trade was analysed to death.

We got Judd and Armfield. We lost 3, 20, Kennedy. End of story right?

Wrong.

WCE got 3, 4 and Natanui the very next year. Losing Judd meant they wouldnt wallow in mediocrity for a few years while they figure shit out. They were able to bring in young talent.

A similar process is evident for us at the Blues. We built our spine/KPPs first for a reason. Mids reach a level of good contribution 3 years faster than bigs.

This means if we truly sort out our spines first (im not sure but for argument sake)

Back: Weitering Marchbank Plowman
Forward: McKay Curnow SOS

You can then spend the years after that acquiring your SPS/Rayner/Oliver types.

But trusting the process has 2 benefits:

1) You peak together. Mids and Bigs will end up peaking in 2019/2020 together for a sustained rise.

2) The fact that your KPPs take longer to mature mean you'll wallow at the bottom for a few years allowing you to acquire top picks for those mids.

If you had done the reverse, those Mids would rise you up faster than the KPPs meaning you dont have those top picks to acquire the elite KPPs you need.

TLDR: Don't trade Weiters. Be patient and we will get our mids.

 

[Rarely Rong]

Apologies for reposting, sure there is rules against this. Posted the below yesterday (before Carey said TG was argueably their most important player).

"Pickett (Dalhause) McKay (Daniher) SOS (Bruest)

SPS (Cyril) Charlie (Buddy) T. Greene

I think I'd give pk 1-2 for T. Greene as much as I would Kelly. Would GWS accept?

Unsure if SOS is Bruest like but that forward line at peak will be a nightmare to match up on."

We know our defence will be fine.

Build a midfield around Cripps and Kruzer. Cash in on at least one of Murphy or Gibbs for picks and leverage FA.

Blue Fusion agree with your time lines.