Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[HARKER]

People will remember how good jw is next year, fit and hopefully with a defined role

Of course he'll be good, as will Marchbank, Jones isn't going to stop now and Macreadie looks like a keeper already.

You know when it won't look so good? It's when one or two will have to wait things out for an injury to come about playing VFL, whilst we may be left waiting another year or two to deepen our midfield.

It's a tough game and the only reason some of the ideas that have been put forward here (as crazy as they may sound) is that SOS isn't playing favourites with anyone. That's going to upset some people and maybe a hard idea to sell for the CFC, but it's bold and one driven by the need to succeed.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

The suggestion of trading Weitering, with all due respect is short sighted and possibly the worst idea I've read all day.

The kid is 19 in his second year, do people forget he was head and shoulders above any KPP in his draft year. We won't be much good for another 3 or 4 years, when Weiters will be 23 and at his peak.

Yes we may have a lot of options in defence now, but what about in 3 or 4 years time. Let's not do a Josh Kennedy and then see Weiters flourish at some other club as a key forward or defender for 10 years.....**** that.

I don't think we'll be trading JW and I'd prefer we didn't but let's just say hypothetically we did trade him, I don't hate the idea.

JW may become an outright star KPP player at both ends of the ground and that would be fantastic. Kelly is already proving himself to be elite and would help Cripps out immensely for the next decade. The difference is what we know (Kelly) vs what we think (JW).

But I also made the point earlier, if we keep JW and worst case, he doesn't deliver, he'll still have some pretty good currency in a couple of years and we could shop him around then. Now isn't the time to put him up for trade so I highly doubt he'll be on the table.

 

[Funk]

You know what? We don't really know what Levi will do.

If and that's a big if, Richmond have fallen out of interest for Levi, others will come up.
There will be clubs seduced in what they may be able to manufacture out of Levi.

Still see clubs Collingwood and Melbourne as possible suitors, but what about our compo? How much hinges on what we get?

Will be interesting to see what happens Harks.

IMHO Carlton would be silly to offer more than 2 years - SOS/Bolts will be hoping that Levi is surplus to requirements in 3 years time and wouldn't want a player on big $ playing in the VFL.

Conversely Levi and his manager would stupid not to anticipate this - and should accept any 4 year deal on good $ they can get.

Therefore I predict Levi will leave for the security of a longer term deal.

Could well be wrong but that's how I see it playing out.

 

[I AM CARLTON]

We're talking list management and I'm not assuming anything but basing things on some facts, some understanding of what we're looking for this year and maybe with a little insight to the future........and of course, I could be wrong on every call and things may change in the meantime.

We will be loading up on mids through this draft/trade period and maybe we've lucked it in having a glut of KPD's (Macreadie @ #47) was somewhat unexpected, but we fired the shot, ASilvagni is serving us brilliantly and then Jones (Who would have thought?)
So this is a good thing and that being the case, it's a better thing by converting a good thing into a greater thing.
If we do find ourselves with surplus quality KPD's, do we try and manufacture new roles for them or to be trade to advantage for needs?
I know which direction I feel to be the better, but you may be right.......we may just try and massage things to fit.

Alex Silvagni has played 7 games this year hardly brilliant he is a 30 year old who is injury prone. Macreadie has played 8 games who knows what type of player he will be.

 

[JustaBattler]

I dont think it was an accident that SOS and Bolton chose the players they chose- and concentrated on talls first- it was a strategic decision based on their knowledge of what it takes to build a list. All those 'extra' talls have been put in place for a reason - NOT an accident.

SO I doubt very much that they will be trading a player like Weitering (who this year signed on for an extended contract btw) - and change the design of their plan.

Let the blokes with a brain ( finally the CLub has invested in some quality leadership) just do their jobs - I'm enjoying the journey.

No more shenanigans and short cuts.

 

[I AM CARLTON]

I want Kelly over five key defenders
I would welcome gws to choose any except Macreadie!
Plowman and marchbank wanted to leave them and come home
Basically that leaves weitering and Jones
They can choose either ONE!
I'm not fussed!
How's that?
If they chose Jones
Weitering would need to step up as a lock down defender next year though

Why not trade Macreadie and keep Weitering.

Macreadie not getting a game at the moment so clearly the match commitee rate Weitering higher than Macreadie.

 

[Funk]

Lions look likely winners today.

Lions v North in last round could be very interesting!!!!

 

[HARKER]

Alex Silvagni has played 7 games this year hardly brilliant he is a 30 year old who is injury prone. Macreadie has played 8 games who knows what time of player he will be.

Silvagni has been brilliant for a free hit. No?
Macreadie looks every bit a player, but for the fun of it, let's call him a loss.
We're still loaded up with KPD'ers.......look, anyway, I don't think Weitering is going to spend his career as a defender.

 

[Wickzki]

It is playing to another argument of taking best or needs in the draft and I know that there was nothing wrong with taking Weitering. (read what I wrote)

Weitering will be at the club for a long time yet regardless of the hypotheticals we put up, but it is possible that some hard decisions may need to be made.

We'll be fine. At worst (best case scenario) we have one best 22 caliber KPD too many for the long term.

I'm convinced Jones, ASOS and Rowe (if he doesn't retire) are all placeholders.

It's Plowman, Weitering, Marchbank and Macreadie that are the future of our backline. You may even be able to get all four into the one backline given Marchbank's ability to play smaller than what he is. If not then Macreadie is the fourth.

Tall defenders: Weitering, Plowman, Marchbank, Macreadie
Tall forwards: Curnow, McKay, J Silvagni, (B Silvagni)

Quality mids are easier to find and are much more plug and play than developing KPs are. We're tracking right on schedule. I'm convinced we have the list management to get the mids as required. This isn't like the post-Judd trade Ratten-Malthouse era where Cripps was the only genuine AFL talent we added in years.

 

[F_therest]

Lions look likely winners today.

Lions v North in last round could be very interesting!!!!

I don't want the spoon.

Not really any difference between pick 1 and 2.

 

[I AM CARLTON]

Silvagni has been brilliant for a free hit. No?
Macreadie looks every bit a player, but for the fun of it, let's call him a loss.
We're still loaded up with KPD'ers.......look, anyway, I don't think Weitering is going to spend his career as a defender.

If we had to trade a key position defender i would trade Macreadie before Weitering. But really we only have these 2 plus Jones.

I dont count Rowe and A Silvangi as i just dont think either will be at the club in 2019.

 

[Arr0w]

We'll be fine. At worst (best case scenario) we have one best 22 caliber KPD too many for the long term.

I'm convinced Jones, ASOS and Rowe (if he doesn't retire) are all placeholders.

It's Plowman, Weitering, Marchbank and Macreadie that are the future of our backline. You may even be able to get all four into the one backline given Marchbank's ability to play smaller than what he is. If not then Macreadie is the fourth.

Tall defenders: Weitering, Plowman, Marchbank, Macreadie
Tall forwards: Curnow, McKay, J Silvagni, (B Silvagni)

Quality mids are easier to find and are much more plug and play than developing KPs are. We're tracking right on schedule. I'm convinced we have the list management to get the mids as required. This isn't like the post-Judd trade Ratten-Malthouse era where Cripps was the only genuine AFL talent we added in years.

Great post

 

[HARKER]

Quality mids are easier to find and are much more plug and play than developing KPs are. We're tracking right on schedule. I'm convinced we have the list management to get the mids as required. This isn't like the post-Judd trade Ratten-Malthouse era where Cripps was the only genuine AFL talent we added in years.

That's why we have so many of them.

Sydney's backline is littered with rookies and is doing just fine.
O.K. there's more to it than that, but if we weren't quite sure before, we must be by now, in that we must have more mids......quality mids, before anything can change at our club. I'm sure you may have noticed but we're edging ever closer to 18th this year and Weitering has not made one iota of difference.
Cripps has though. More Cripps' thanks, before we set out on a path of more Weiterings.

 

[Iamcarlton]

We'll be fine. At worst (best case scenario) we have one best 22 caliber KPD too many for the long term.

I'm convinced Jones, ASOS and Rowe (if he doesn't retire) are all placeholders.

It's Plowman, Weitering, Marchbank and Macreadie that are the future of our backline. You may even be able to get all four into the one backline given Marchbank's ability to play smaller than what he is. If not then Macreadie is the fourth.

Tall defenders: Weitering, Plowman, Marchbank, Macreadie
Tall forwards: Curnow, McKay, J Silvagni, (B Silvagni)

Quality mids are easier to find and are much more plug and play than developing KPs are. We're tracking right on schedule. I'm convinced we have the list management to get the mids as required. This isn't like the post-Judd trade Ratten-Malthouse era where Cripps was the only genuine AFL talent we added in years.

If Kerr comes on and makes it you can add JSOS to the defenders tall list . Jones agility could mean he's around for another 5 years . We are stacked might'nt happen this year but eventually something will give in our backline .

 

[I AM CARLTON]

That's why we have so many of them.

Sydney's backline is littered with rookies and is doing just fine.
O.K. there's more to it than that, but if we weren't quite sure before, we must be by now, in that we must have more mids......quality mids, before anything can change at our club. I'm sure you may have noticed but we're edging ever closer to 18th this year and Weitering has not made one iota of difference.
Cripps has though. More Cripps' thanks, before we set out on a path of more Weiterings.

Bit rough on Weitering 2nd year Key position player we all know they take longer to develop. How can you say we are close to 18th and say Cripps has made a difference but Weitering hasnt. R u drinking?

 

[I AM CARLTON]

If Kerr comes on and makes it you can add JSOS to the defenders tall list . Jones agility could mean he's around for another 5 years . We are stacked might'nt happen this year but eventually something will give in our backline .

Hey mini me Jack Silvangi has mainly been played as a forward so not sure how you can consider him a defender. Isnt Kerr being talked up as a forward?

 

[HARKER]

Bit rough on Weitering 2nd year Key position player we all know they take longer to develop. How can you say we are close to 18th and say Cripps has made a difference but Weitering hasnt. R u drinking?

I don't care. First year, second year.......you see what you see and Weitering best harden up (I've deleted the rest of this)
If he doesn't start putting himself on the line as do Marchbank & Plowman, he'll be looked at from inside and out.

I don't understand how you can not understand the hole that's been left with Cripps out of our midfield.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Hey mini me Jack Silvangi has mainly been played as a forward so not sure how you can consider him a defender. Isnt Kerr being talked up as a forward?

Yes Kerr as a forward which potentially pushes jack to the backline as we saw when Mckay came in . Just hypothetical crap really

 

[I AM CARLTON]

I don't care. First year, second year.......you see what you see and Weitering best harden up (I've deleted the rest of this)
If he doesn't start putting himself on the line as do Marchbank & Plowman, he'll be looked at from inside and out.

I don't understand how you can not understand the hole that's been left with Cripps out of our midfield.

Mate i agree we need more quality midfielders but im not giving up a 19 year old key postion future gun. Our bottom 6 to 8 players most weeks are the reason we lose. Lool at tonights team Boekhorst, Thomas, Smedts, Kerridge, Armfield wouldnt get a game at most other clubs and will not feature in our team when we become good. No 1 pick could be coming our way again lets grab the best young midfielder with that pick or offer it to GWS for Kelly and Hopper maybe throw in another pick also.

 

[HARKER]

Mate i agree we need more quality midfielders but im not giving up a 19 year old key postion future gun. Our bottom 6 to 8 players most weeks are the reason we lose. Lool at tonights team Boekhorst, Thomas, Smedts, Kerridge, Armfield wouldnt get a game at most other clubs and will not feature in our team when we become good. No 1 pick could be coming our way again lets grab the best young midfielder with that pick or offer it to GWS for Kelly and Hopper maybe throw in another pick also.

Nowhere have I said we're going to give him up. It's possible as much as anything else and it just won't happen, but list management has to be just that; Managing the list by way of balance, by way of quality, by way of trading for needs and even drafting for them. All about balance, because no team (GWS aside) have 30+ quality ready-to-go players. You can't afford to weigh yourself down too heavily in one part of the ground as there has to be just the right spread across the board.

Right now, I'd suggest that our back six is costing us more than our forward six. Is there something wrong with this picture?

 

[Arr0w]

With a complete lack of depth, why would anyone want to trade out one of our future best 22

Absolutely staggering

 

[HyphensBack]

Well that sure stirred up some discussion!

Elite mids - I want at least one and two if Gibbs leaves - pretty sure we all agree on that.
If Kelly wants to come then I say do it but my point was if we don't have to give away all our first round picks and can trade out a surplus KPD to help in the trade - I say do it. I reiterate though that I don't think Weitering would leave home but only him and Jones have currency. I liked the discussion it generated - let's hope SOS pulls of a doozy of a trade!

Shiel on the other hand I would throw two first round draft picks at but it looks like he won't be available until the end of 2019. We need to be contending in 2019 so he wants to come and complete the puzzle - free agent then if I am not mistaken and so we just need coin.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Trade 19 yo Weitering?!?!!?

**** me!!!!

We need midfield depth sure, but players of Weitering's class are not easy to find. People pressing the panic button a bit early, second year blues has happened many times before, mind boggling.

 

[DangerousD]

He said SPS reminded him of Chris Lewis. Dumb fire truck!

Wasn't Chris Lewis a gun?

 

[G-TRAIN07]

I don't want the spoon.

Not really any difference between pick 1 and 2.

Well tell the club to start Winn then