2017 Trade and FA thread

[jackess]

and in my opinion he should have been delisted at end of previous contract and have seen nothing to alter that view.
further if mitch and allen were available he wouldnt get a game.next year there will be several new players that will be good enough to demand playing time,developing players need priority.the year after it happens all over again.
what i would do, you would do, Briztoon would do and what the club will do-i imagine are all different
the less we do, the longer it will take.yeah thats my assessment of the list, merely and only
i am serious and definitely not trying to be controversial.

You should get used to using the term 'in my opinion'. Especially when that opinion differs from what Fagan has said.

 

[Dalions]

You should get used to using the term 'in my opinion'. Especially when that opinion differs from what Fagan has said.

I guess he is just being a hyper realist.

 

[Dalions]

Stef probably wouldn't get us a top 30 pick but to rule it out completely is oversimplifying the situation. I also don't think we'd trade him for a pick outside the top 30. He probably won't request a trade anyway.

I personally think that Stef is probably worth more yo some other clubs than what some of us on here think he is.
I think he should net us a top 30 pick for sure.

 

[POBT]

Trading a ruckman because you don't like his kicking doesn't add up for me. Of all the attributes you want from a ruckman, kicking falls into the "nice to have" category.

Martin's disposal errors drive me to distraction but are easily remedied by a teammate giving him a handball option more often.

And it doesn't make any sense to criticise Martin and then advocate for Smith to replace him when Smith has perhaps close to the worst kicking in the comp.

 

[hyper realist]

Agree that we are 3+ years off being a contending team, and we will need a significant list turnover before then, but wouldn't you agree that having that list turnover occur all in one off-season would be detrimental considering the limited number quality of players it is possible to bring in during one off season, and two more very poor seasons would likely see a mass exodus of talent as a large number of players come out of contract in 2019?

well i wont tell you what i would do the year after then !!! i'm harsh due to the pain endured over the last too many years.what the club will do will be different but will be illuminating-what they say,what they do.geelong turned over 10 players last year after finishing second.fagan has said that squads win premierships and clearly we need a better list,surely something everyone agrees with.how bold and brave will they be in the context of the hopium being sold at the player, supporter and club level ? things must change but how slowly ?

 

[Billy Puller]

So old men are sometimes worth squat?

There will always be outliers in everything. What I was trying to portray were the extreme circumstances that led to such a great deal!

However jackass in your never ending battle to get one up on me let's use a more recent example hmmm?

I present to you the player that is Jordan Lewis whom has a greater body of work than both patfull and stefan Martin combined.

I would invite you to take a peak at what he was traded for.

Same age as Martin.

I would also like to throw out Lynden Dunn - pick 51.

Mat Rosa - pick 31

Cooney went mid 30s too.

But but but Brett delidio went for a first rounder!!!

Well well well jackess my dear dear friend once again we have the GWS trade factor involved and in fact if you look at the history of GWS trading they have overpaid significantly because they've had more picks then they know what to do with.

So to summarise my case to the 2017 Brisbane Lions bigfooty trade and fa board members I state that old men aren't worth squat on the trade table.

 

[buttermuffs]

I guess he is just being a hyper realist.

And grammatically challenged.

 

[winged1]

Okay agree the turnover this year will be significant, but I doubt we will deliberately offload 4 senior players such as Rich, Rockliff, Martin and Lester in the same year. With the number of quality senior players wanting to come our way likely small, that sort of exodus of senior leaders I think would leave us in the bottom 2 for 2 more seasons at least, and instigate a player exodus come 2019.

I agree about the senior players and I think only one maybe two goes. Lester has had a pretty good year as has rich so a bit perplexed about that.

 

[Len S]

and in my opinion he should have been delisted at end of previous contract and have seen nothing to alter that view.
further if mitch and allen were available he wouldnt get a game.next year there will be several new players that will be good enough to demand playing time,developing players need priority.the year after it happens all over again.
what i would do, you would do, Briztoon would do and what the club will do-i imagine are all different
the less we do, the longer it will take.yeah thats my assessment of the list, merely and only
i am serious and definitely not trying to be controversial.

I'm totally with you....if he's so valuable coaching, he could perhaps captain the reserves, and be an assistant coach.

 

[Lazza16]

Hansen is finished at AFL level.

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

[Lazza16]

According to Sam McLure on SEN this morning the Bulldogs are chasing Stef Martin again and Bob Murphy thinks it would a fantastic pick up for Dogs

swap with Dale would be nice

 

[hyper realist]

You should get used to using the term 'in my opinion'. Especially when that opinion differs from what Fagan has said.

so you guys believe he has performed, what, good,great and will be playing seniors for the majority of next year?!
i was aware of whats been said about him and that he's in the leadership group-all it does is scare me,seriously.ditto IMO

 

[Lazza16]

Tom Bell and Allen Christiensen were at the local footy club the other night talking to the young boys.
There has been a few rumours going around about Bundy not being happy. But from what he said the other night, he aint going no where. Loves the club, took some time to get over his latest setback but in it for the long haul. He needed to get out of Geelong but didnt elaborate, something wasn't right at the time. But is a Geelong boy at heart. Grew up there. Nothing we havent heard but re-affirmed his commitment.
Bell up and running ready for pre-season.

Lonergan has retired so the coast is clear

 

[jackess]

so you guys believe he has performed, what, good,great and will be playing seniors for the majority of next year?!
i was aware of whats been said about him and that he's in the leadership group-all it does is scare me,seriously.ditto IMO

You're perfectly entitled to your opinion. As is everybody else.

 

[Doggy]

swap with Dale would be nice

Lol

 

[Dalions]

Lonergan has retired so the coast is clear

Aha!

 

[SizeMatters]

I don't think we will get Kelly or Dusty

Alternative strategy in coming

Step 1: Saints pay Rockliff enough that the Lions get pick 2 compo

Step 2: Saints trade picks 8 & 9 (revised picks after compo) & possibly Lonie for picks 2 & 19

Step 3: Saints pick Cameron Rayner at 2, Lions will take Paddy Dow at 1

From the Saints board... wouldn't say no to this.

 

[Nunez]

From the Saints board... wouldn't say no to this.

Me either. Make it happen!

 

[pulpdriver]

From the Saints board... wouldn't say no to this.

Don't want Rocky to go but that deal would be virtually impossible to knock back if the AFL were willing to sign off on it.

 

[Dom PC]

From the Saints board... wouldn't say no to this.

Someone PM Lions Insider!
Well and truly within the rules.

Happy for Rocky to stay though!

 

[bato]

Trading a ruckman because you don't like his kicking doesn't add up for me. Of all the attributes you want from a ruckman, kicking falls into the "nice to have" category.

Martin's disposal errors drive me to distraction but are easily remedied by a teammate giving him a handball option more often.

And it doesn't make any sense to criticise Martin and then advocate for Smith to replace him when Smith has perhaps close to the worst kicking in the comp.

What falls into the 'must have' category then? Doesn't tap to advantage all that often, only goes for second efforts when he's tapped the ball into a reachable position (to himself mainly). Apart from being able to link up well in the middle and covering the ground reasonably well, some of his other weaknesses are really noticeable. He refuses to tackle players and decides to opt out of front-on contact when there's an opposition player coming his way. Lazy efforts like that partly contribute to us losing clearance counts. His kicking just happens to be his biggest downfall. He's averaging the same amount of kicks as handballs, so there's enough to suggest his teammates call for handballs.

To be fair, I did suggest Smith needs improvement - he's the type that wants to learn. While I don't advocate for his kicking, I feel his hunger and commitment to every contest is nice to see for someone that young. FWIW, the difference in skill levels between the two isn't that great. I think Smith can be turned into that quality tap ruck that we desperately need.

 

[POBT]

What falls into the 'must have' category then? Doesn't tap to advantage all that often, only goes for second efforts when he's tapped the ball into a reachable position (to himself mainly). Apart from being able to link up well in the middle and covering the ground reasonably well, some of his other weaknesses are really noticeable. He refuses to tackle players and decides to opt out of front-on contact when there's an opposition player coming his way. Lazy efforts like that partly contribute to us losing clearance counts. His kicking just happens to be his biggest downfall. He's averaging the same amount of kicks as handballs, so there's enough to suggest his teammates call for handballs.

To be fair, I did suggest Smith needs improvement - he's the type that wants to learn. While I don't advocate for his kicking, I feel his hunger and commitment to every contest is nice to see for someone that young. FWIW, the difference in skill levels between the two isn't that great. I think Smith can be turned into that quality tap ruck that we desperately need.

Well, you seemed to focus on his kicking as the reason why we should give him the arse so "to be fair", you didn't exactly form a strong argument to back up your position.

I don't agree with a lot of what you said here anyway. Martin applies pressure around the contest. He gets the footy in the open. He generally negates the opposition ruckman quite well.

I don't think he's the perfect ruckman by any stretch and, if he wants to go and we got a good return, don't really mind if he's traded as I think he's replaceable. But it would be silly for us to push him out the door, particularly due to the reason you first cited.

 

[pulpdriver]

There will always be outliers in everything. What I was trying to portray were the extreme circumstances that led to such a great deal!

However jackass in your never ending battle to get one up on me let's use a more recent example hmmm?

I present to you the player that is Jordan Lewis whom has a greater body of work than both patfull and stefan Martin combined.

I would invite you to take a peak at what he was traded for.

Same age as Martin.

I would also like to throw out Lynden Dunn - pick 51.

Mat Rosa - pick 31

Cooney went mid 30s too.

But but but Brett delidio went for a first rounder!!!

Well well well jackess my dear dear friend once again we have the GWS trade factor involved and in fact if you look at the history of GWS trading they have overpaid significantly because they've had more picks then they know what to do with.

So to summarise my case to the 2017 Brisbane Lions bigfooty trade and fa board members I state that old men aren't worth squat on the trade table.

Jordan Lewis form had dropped and the situation created at the Hawks by their intentions to bring in O'Meara and Titch was pretty unique. Dunn had played like half the year for Casey and Cooney seemed like he would struggle to get on the park.

Stef has had pretty impressive and consistent form over the last 3 years. Dogs need a ruck and they're in a finals window (even if they did miss this year). Whilst all teams need to have one eye towards the future teams in finals windows tend to be more willing to part with picks for players that will instantly improve them. Windows can close very quickly. I'd imagine the Dogs would see 26 as a reasonable price for a ruckman that had form close to AA for the last few years, had proven to be recently physically resilient, was contracted and even if they only got 2 years service would instantly improve their side, could be the difference in finals and serves as a strong conduit for their developing ruck in English.

No idea if the Dogs would be as interested as they were a couple of years ago but I'd be confident they'd see 26 as reasonable value and a decent investment at strengthening their ability to challenge for a flag whilst their window is open.

 

[jackess]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-08-30/rival-clubs-circling-outofcontract-bomber-mckenna

I hope we're into him

 

[bato]

Well, you seemed to focus on his kicking as the reason why we should give him the arse so "to be fair", you didn't exactly form a strong argument to back up your position.

I don't agree with a lot of what you said here anyway. Martin applies pressure around the contest. He gets the footy in the open. He generally negates the opposition ruckman quite well.

I don't think he's the perfect ruckman by any stretch and, if he wants to go and we got a good return, don't really mind if he's traded as I think he's replaceable. But it would be silly for us to push him out the door, particularly due to the reason you first cited.

The focus was on kicking because he's a terrible kick. If it's not accuracy, it's decision making and slow decision making like someone else said earlier in this thread.

His pressure is nonexistent when it's an uncontested situation. He lets players just pass him with very little effort. His tackling numbers are generally very poor, too.

Would have been a bit strange if I randomly started blurting out a mini essay on why I think Stef isn't that good, so that's why I didn't really feel the need to back anything up.