2017 Trade and FA thread

[jonnobackpocket]

There some serious spin in this thread. What's this add 25 and 40 together it's pick 13, we don't have pick 13 at all. If we swap Hippy's and Schache's draft positions it does not seem so bad. What? Hippy never going pick 2, we could have had Oliver or parish etc etc if we did not pick Schache, I don't understand these arguments. Anyway it irrelevant if people want to believe we did not get shafted good on them glass half full and all that.

 

[acuguy]

Hodge, Cameron, Christensen, Robinson and Pick 1 hopefully walk straight into our team next year. We need to be more competitive immediately to show Hugh and the boys that we are going to push finals sooner rather than later.

 

[Lazza16]

Draft picks always depreciate in value in the corresponding years. Main reason being when you are drafted you are only judged against players of your same age.

Once you are in the system you are then judged against all players in the AFL. For example, if Dustin Martin was to be traded he'd be hypothetically worth a top 3 pick and way more than McCluggage who was last year's pick 3.

A bit like how a brand new car depreciates as soon as you drive it.

Just look at GWS #2draft pick that went to the hawks.... O'Rorke.....can't get a game... always injured....lucky to be listed anywhere next season.

 

[Brett C]

There's hi jinks and then there is strength of character......he would be able to recognise both.

A little more than hijinks, doesn't make him a bad bloke but we only see a very small portion of what a person is like.

 

[DanT7]

Wish we could delist 2018 list now....
check out this group...
Bell, Bewick, Dawson...
Lyons, Paparone... Jury still out.
Who signed Frost!?

 

[Lazza16]

Terry Wallace said we did well so we must have done badly.

Not so...look at what we got......a playing coach to educate our guys...... perhaps the very best player available in the draft given age n potential....he will never be Ablett but Ablett wil never be Ablett again. Who else kicks a lazy 5 in a prelim.....n perhaps Crows best finals player 2 yrs in a row. We could have waited til next year but with the likelihood of a weak gC looked ominous if it went to Psd .Sure he had a quiet year but we don't know what family pressures were like. Still have 3 first round of picks to get the good kids n points banked to get Academy dudes.....all in all a satisfactory draft.

 

[royboys4eva]

Gary Buckenara has rated the Lions trade period a great success and given us A minus. Wallace gave us A minus. Think a lot of people here need to take a deep breath and realise we didn't do so bad.

If we get three players in the draft before Ballenden thats a massive result. I was disappointed to lose Rocky but no much Schache. End of day we lost two players who wanted out and we got two players in Hodge and Cameron wanted to come to our club. Hodge will set a standard on and off the training track which this club has been lacking for a very long time.

 

[exile]

**** it **** it **** it.

Terrible, terrible trade period.

Over paying for CC and losing Schache for peanuts really hurts any positives that came out of the last 2 weeks.

pretty ****ing rough day for QLD footy. the valuation of players these days is absolutely nuts, and seemingly dictated a lot by the media. if schache's "homesickness" wasn't as well publicized throughout the year and was traded on pure player value, i reckon you would have gotten a lot more for him. same goes for weller, if he didn't go on trade radio and plead his case to be traded, it put the suns in an awkward position where we're almost under obligation to trade for him, no matter what freo's demands. not sure what the go is with adelaide and their seemingly bizarre requests, but 12 for cameron does seem pretty steep.

here's hoping these key decisions turn out for better than for worse for the suns and lions in the future. short term pain, long term gain.

 

[SRH17]

pretty ******* rough day for QLD footy. the valuation of players these days is absolutely nuts, and seemingly dictated a lot by the media. if schache's "homesickness" wasn't as well publicized throughout the year and was traded on pure player value, i reckon you would have gotten a lot more for him. same goes for weller, if he didn't go on trade radio and plead his case to be traded, it put the suns in an awkward position where we're almost under obligation to trade for him, no matter what freo's demands. not sure what the go is with adelaide and their seemingly bizarre requests, but 12 for cameron does seem pretty steep.

here's hoping these key decisions turn out for better than for worse for the suns and lions in the future. short term pain, long term gain.[/QUOTE
Do you believe you were dudded on the Weller trade?

 

[M Malice]

Gary Buckenara has rated the Lions trade period a great success and given us A minus. Wallace gave us A minus. Think a lot of people here need to take a deep breath and realise we didn't do so bad.

If we get three players in the draft before Ballenden thats a massive result. I was disappointed to lose Rocky but no much Schache. End of day we lost two players who wanted out and we got two players in Hodge and Cameron wanted to come to our club. Hodge will set a standard on and off the training track which this club has been lacking for a very long time.

Yep, if you look at the Cameron and Schache trades in isolation it doesn't look too good but the whole package after the 2 week trade period is great IMO.

 

[lioninthesand]

Gary Buckenara has rated the Lions trade period a great success and given us A minus. Wallace gave us A minus. Think a lot of people here need to take a deep breath and realise we didn't do so bad.

If we get three players in the draft before Ballenden thats a massive result. I was disappointed to lose Rocky but no much Schache. End of day we lost two players who wanted out and we got two players in Hodge and Cameron wanted to come to our club. Hodge will set a standard on and off the training track which this club has been lacking for a very long time.

We did fine, got a feeling people thought we would flip Schache for a top 5 pick lol. And CC was overs but only slightly and he fits a need.

This is one of the more epic, disproportionate meltdowns of the modern era on this board


We didn't win big, but our hand was crap, a maligned former 2 pick with no market value wanting out (and the pressure to look out for his well being) and seeking a contracted player from a pissed off team who just lost another star.. we did ok out of a crap situation.

The club saying they were happy to keep Schache (which was clearly always bluff) was taken literally by almost everyone, that's why theres so much outrage, it looks like we folded on what was inevitable.

 

[AB09]

Draft picks don't always depreciate, they also appreciate... Dusty is worth way more than pick-3.
While we paid slightly overs for Cameron, he was draft as a rookie. He's certainly worth more than a rookie selection now.

True.

I was comparing to someone who's only been in the system 2 years like Schache and addressing any unrealistic expectation of us getting a similar return than what we used when we drafted him.

Someone who was drafted pick 2 last season or the season before is rarely going to get you back the same pick in the draft (or better) if you trade them two years later.

 

[cubansombrero]

Yep, if you look at the Cameron and Schache trades in isolation it doesn't look too good but the whole package after the 2 week trade period is great IMO.

I think part of the problem too is comparing ourselves to other clubs. 18 for Rockliff looked pretty fair for an free agent (especially since the club wasn't willing to give him a 4th year so were unlikely to ever match), but then the AFL spat out a ridiculous compo pick for Motlop and suddenly it looks like we got screwed. 25 and 40 is a rough deal for Schache in the context of deals for previous high draft picks like Boyd and clubs paying overs for Lever and Weller this year, but when you consider Schache's mental state and the importance of building a strong culture where everyone is 100% committed, then we did okay (although not great).

In the end, we still end up with 7 kids drafted in the top 25 in two years (plus potentially an 8th, depending on where a bid for Ballenden falls), an on-field leader in Hodge, and someone to fill an immediate hole in our best 22 in Cameron. Losing Schache sucks for what could have been, but with Hipwood, Ballenden and Walker, we'll be fine. And losing Rocky hurts a little, but it gives Berry, Mathieson and Keays a chance to step up, and in four years time when we're using that $600k to pay guys like McCluggage and Witherden I think it will feel okay.

 

[crispy creme]

The pick #2 next to Schaches' name is what clouds everything.

Regardless of age and development, he hasn't performed anywhere near expectations. His return this year at NEAFL level - let alone AFL -was extremely underwhelming; 23 goals from 9 games. IMO this equates to 12-14 goal output at VFL level. Compare this to what an underage Jesse Hogan did. The people who managed to get 25 & 40 and essentially turn it into 15 & 52, for the 2017 version of Josh - IMO - are borderline miracle workers.

Good luck to the kid going forward, a lot has to change for him to become even a good AFL player.

Who honestly thinks we are a worse team on paper with Cameron and Hodge coming into the side, whilst also adding in theory the best young player in the country plus another two of the top 20?

It appears I'm on the outer here but I think we've had a pretty good trade period. Feel free to disagree and tell me I'm wrong - I'm accustomed to after 20 odd years of marriage!

 

[acuguy]

We just have to accept that in this day and age that players will want to and can now play in their home state. Money is the biggest driver for some eg. Lever. I look forward to the state tribal element this will bring to our game. GC were smart to get Weller for pick 2. Weller is on the verge of being an elite midfielder, pick 2 might be an elite mid and might want to stay at the coast. Weller will do both. Cameron is a qlder wanting to play with the lions and will most likely be an excellent long term player. Much less of a risk than pick 12. Smart move by both clubs.

 

[acuguy]

The pick #2 next to Schaches' name is what clouds everything.

Regardless of age and development, he hasn't performed anywhere near expectations. His return this year at NEAFL level - let alone AFL -was extremely underwhelming; 23 goals from 9 games. IMO this equates to 12-14 goal output at VFL level. Compare this to what an underage Jesse Hogan did. The people who managed to get 25 & 40 and essentially turn it into 15 & 52, for the 2017 version of Josh - IMO - are borderline miracle workers.

Good luck to the kid going forward, a lot has to change for him to become even a good AFL player.

Who honestly thinks we are a worse team on paper with Cameron and Hodge coming into the side, whilst also adding in theory the best young player in the country plus another two of the top 20?

It appears I'm on the outer here but I think we've had a pretty good trade period. Feel free to disagree and tell me I'm wrong - I'm accustomed to after 20 odd years of marriage!

Could not agree anymore crispy. We are in a better position with our list post this trade period!

 

[M Malice]

The pick #2 next to Schaches' name is what clouds everything.

Regardless of age and development, he hasn't performed anywhere near expectations. His return this year at NEAFL level - let alone AFL -was extremely underwhelming; 23 goals from 9 games. IMO this equates to 12-14 goal output at VFL level. Compare this to what an underage Jesse Hogan did. The people who managed to get 25 & 40 and essentially turn it into 15 & 52, for the 2017 version of Josh - IMO - are borderline miracle workers.

Good luck to the kid going forward, a lot has to change for him to become even a good AFL player.

Who honestly thinks we are a worse team on paper with Cameron and Hodge coming into the side, whilst also adding in theory the best young player in the country plus another two of the top 20?

It appears I'm on the outer here but I think we've had a pretty good trade period. Feel free to disagree and tell me I'm wrong - I'm accustomed to after 20 odd years of marriage!

I agree to agree with you crispy.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I'm incredibly at peace with our trade period.

I think it's a very abstract one to assess which is why people are so divided. It also helps that I was nowhere near as hot as most on Rockliff and genuinely believe there is massive upside to moving him on.

This is the first real chance for Fagan and Noble to manage our personnel. We are reshaping our list and culture big time, in terms of the on-field and off. Change is scary.

But we will go into next year with Mitch Robinson, Charlie Cameron, Allen Christensen and Luke Hodge back into our team. This is massive. The ball bounced out of our forward line like a pinball this year and put our defence under ridiculous pressure. With Robbo and Charlie up there our forward pressure will be magnitudes better and our defenders will be able to accelerate their development under reduced pressure and with the guidance of Hodge. Hodge and Cameron provide a transformative value greater than what the stats sheet indicates.

Oh and we have three first round picks including pick 1.

Increased opportunities await our future midfield stars and also provides the chance for a long overdue change up in our midfield dynamics. Don't give a **** about individuals and their dream team scores, time to get that shit working as a unit.

I'm ****ing pumped. It may not show much on the ladder next year but I think we are going to really show signs of where we are going at a team and it will greatly improve our chances at selling a future to the Witherden and McCluggages, as well as whoever shows up on the trade table next year. Then one more tilt at the pointy end of the 2018 super draft and we are on our way.

 

[If it bleeds]

To say today didn't have a few WTF moments, I'll go he.
Non the less let's put things into context - in the interview noble says we are year 2 in 3 year plan. Looking forward to position ourselves. IMO Schache was 1 tall to many with added liability, Cameron fitted the age, speed and pressure profile, hodge experience and leadership.
To come away with 3 picks in top 18 + ballanden potentially, cannot be frowned upon as it still fits our long term position. Being a foreign frontier club 9/10 we pay a premium or tax for trades let's face it. And love getting shafted By the afl full stop...

Plus this trade period was just on another planet- either players value going for way unders or way overs#.
In a weak draft ( <20) is where you wanna be in this particular draft year IMO. ( next year different story)

I for one can't wait for cox and Cameron to light up the park with dashing runs. Hodgey barking out instructions to mcstay, harro, gardener, mayes etc making them feel like roman soldiers in an invincible army of defenders. Young 1st and 2nd year mids and fwd's berry, mclug, withers, hippy gaining chemistry.

For all the chicken littles who still think the sky is falling after today. C YA!

 

[exile]

Do you believe you were dudded on the Weller trade?

in a way, yes. definitely paid overs due to the situation. first time a player has requested to come play at home on the gold coast, obviously freo held all the cards and being a contracted player for another year they were never going to let him go for face value. in terms of future output, i think he'll be great. we've had our fair share of high draft picks over the years, i'm sure we can forego one year and take a punt on a homegrown talent who wants to play for us.

 

[BrizzyBandit]

Ok..... dust has settled.... My first emotional response over.... I want logic to drive now.
Lets break it down.

Key Indicator:

List better or worse?

Short term and long term I think we've improved our list dramatically. Luke Hodge finished super high in Hawthorn's B&F this year, he'll easily be best 22 and will help our structures etc huge short term boost as a player and massive long term impact on the list. Have we forgotten the giant win this is?

Charlie Cameron instant best 22 and fills an important age gap. Lightening fast, super offensive pressure, super damaging attack when on song. Huge boost both short and long term.

Lost Rocky who takes some experience and possessions with him..... but development of our young bulls demands more minutes in the middle... Keays, Matho, Berry, Clugga have more chances to develop. Rocky had some baggage..... and has a body that is going to struggle to make full seasons moving forward.

Lost Schache and some future potential. Zero affect on our list short to mid term. The pain of his departure reduced by our genuine problem of too many talls and the astonishing impact of Hippwood..... and Mr Ballandan coming in.
Never nice to lose a pick 2 for a 20 and 40 something..... but pick 2 is a sunken cost and accient history.... the kid was a flop.... we got a pick that allowed us get pick 15 which might make a giant difference on draft night with matching bids etc...


SOOOOOOoooooo If I was Fagen would I think I'm in a stronger position today than yesterday?


I think its a resounding YES...... what else matters?

 

[Dodongo]

Dodongo is happy with this trade period. Dodongo did say that Dodongo would trade Pick 12 if we could still get another pick in the first round and we did. Dodongo thinks that the future is bright and Dodongo is looking forward to next year. Dodongo likes the list we are building and Dodongo hopes we can add a few free agents next year.

 

[SizeMatters]

Can't believe I went way OTT. Settled down a bit and it wasn't as bad as it first seemed. Got rid of a poor influence in Schache and picked up hard workers in Hodge and Cameron. NobFag turning the culture of this place around.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Enjoy CC guys as he is an excitement machine. Will bring speed & pressure to your side. Just need to teach him to settle before taking a shot for goal.

Didn't have the best end to the season... except BOG in the preliminary, but Imo was because his mind was elsewhere (in Brisbane with his girlfriend).

 

[WheildonTheAxe]

Grading our trade period seems to be inflated by the Hodge deal which I'm not sure really counts. There are some positive counter arguments to both the Schache and Cameron trades but the general consensus is that the Dogs and Crows 'won'.

I'd really appreciate, and very comforted by, some insight from the club about why they did what they did.

Surely if they sent an email to members and we all promised not to share any secrets, that would be cool?