2017 Trade and FA thread

[Nunez]

Love to see him get some games next year. We need some more mature bodies in defence.

Well we're adding a 33 year old to our backline so we've got a mature body

At the least I think he'll prove to be a solid cover for us.

 

[James North]

Incredible how they named the podcast preemptively to match the BigFooty opinion of the trade period.

 

[luthor]

But neither wanted to be here......

This being the point that those who are so strident in their criticism consistently fail to acknowledge.

We didn't force Rocky out. We made a commercial decision not to match Port's offer. Neither did we "trade" him for Pick 18. We got that Pick as (partial) compensation under the AFL's mystery Free Agency "formula". That's the way Free Agency works.

We didn't force Schache out either. Again we took a commercial decision to get what we could (with probably a bit of empathy thrown in as well)

I'll be honest.

I was really pissed off when the details of the Cameron and Schache trades came through. Outraged even!

But in the cold light of day, I can accept the rationale behind both those trades.

There's a very good argument (compelling maybe) that hanging on to Rocky and Schache would have been a bigger F*** up than cuting them loose.

 

[Sproj]

But in the cold light of day, I can accept the rationale behind both those trades.

And right now, the light of day in Melbourne is still quite cold.

 

[Dom PC]

But neither wanted to be here......

In regards to Schahce. Niether did Lappin, Leppitch,Power etc. at some point in their careers but we convinced them to hang in there and they eventually settled... and even after that point, we rolled over in the Schahce trade. Contracted pick 2 KPF, two years into his career and we get that in a trade? That's really poor.

Holding someone to their contract (even if it was for one more year of his two years) should have been a real option. Based on what we got, I'd say it wasn't, which I think is really disappointing.

Brisbane ****ed up on Schahce. There should have been "fire extinguishers" out in the media everyday squashing the Schahce rumours. The whole saga this year was a total balls up and disaster.

As for Rockliff, what we got for him was close enough to fair for someone we pushed out. That's not my issue with his situation. It's the fact we essentially traded him and Schache for pick 15.... that's a serious **** up on our behalf!

Still annoys me now.... pick 15 for Rockliff and Schahce... WTF!!!

 

[chopperduck]

Losing Rocky doesnt matter. He was a FA. Cant combine him to what we lost in trades.

 

[pod17]

In regards to Schahce. Niether did Lappin, Leppitch,Power etc. at some point in their careers but we convinced them to hang in there and they eventually settled... and even after that point, we rolled over in the Schahce trade. Contracted pick 2 KPF, two years into his career and we get that in a trade? That's really poor.

Holding someone to their contract (even if it was for one more year of his two years) should have been a real option. Based on what we got, I'd say it wasn't, which I think is really disappointing.

Brisbane ****** up on Schahce. There should have been "fire extinguishers" out in the media everyday squashing the Schahce rumours. The whole saga this year was a total balls up and disaster.

As for Rockliff, what we got for him was close enough to fair for someone we pushed out. That's not my issue with his situation. It's the fact we essentially traded him and Schache for pick 15.... that's a serious **** up on our behalf!

Still annoys me now.... pick 15 for Rockliff and Schahce... WTF!!!

I do agree with you that the club should have been doing more proactive in addressing the rumours. Like you say, the whole saga this year was a balls up and, quite probably, a distraction to some in the playing group. But imagine holding him to his contract and facing another two years of it? Was what we got for Schache unders? Yes. Was it better than the alternative? The answer is probably yes to that too.

We simply aren't strong on-field to make a stance on a player. I remember Port letting Nick Stevens walk for free back in 03', but they could. We don't have the coverage. We need capable players and pick 15 should net us one of those. Hopefully, with a capable coach and strong on and off field leadership, we will get to the point where that might be an option in the future.

Re Rockliff - form all reports he was not pushed. He decided to exercise his right as a free agent to test his worth. He got an improved offer from Port and that was that. The chances of retaining him were always going to be somewhat slim given he had the captaincy taken from him and, without knowing anything specific, the fact he probably alienated a few in the group with his leadership style under Leppa.

 

[Dom PC]

Losing Rocky doesnt matter. He was a FA. Cant combine him to what we lost in trades.

I highly doubt we let Rocky go if we get no compensation. So i would argue we did trade Rocky and Schahce for pick 15.

 

[SizeMatters]

how in the hell are we filling the salary cap?

 

[Rocketman1984]

how in the hell are we filling the salary cap?

Bewick, Frost and Bell. Seriously there must be some uncontracted talented player we can throw cash at before the end of the drafts

 

[Dom PC]

I do agree with you that the club should have been doing more proactive in addressing the rumours. Like you say, the whole saga this year was a balls up and, quite probably, a distraction to some in the playing group. But imagine holding him to his contract and facing another two years of it? Was what we got for Schache unders? Yes. Was it better than the alternative? The answer is probably yes to that too.

We simply aren't strong on-field to make a stance on a player. I remember Port letting Nick Stevens walk for free back in 03', but they could. We don't have the coverage. We need capable players and pick 15 should net us one of those. Hopefully, with a capable coach and strong on and off field leadership, we will get to the point where that might be an option in the future.

Re Rockliff - form all reports he was not pushed. He decided to exercise his right as a free agent to test his worth. He got an improved offer from Port and that was that. The chances of retaining him were always going to be somewhat slim given he had the captaincy taken from him and, without knowing anything specific, the fact he probably alienated a few in the group with his leadership style under Leppa.

Brisbane will always get loads of speculation on its Victorian players. If not Schahce it will be Witherden or Mcluggage in 2018. We cannot shy away from the attention. We need to control it. By just giving up on home sick players we are just feeding into this sourthern media witch hunt (which is clearly working - they got their man in Schache). It was a mistake to give up Schahce so easily.

With Schahce there should have been a difference between being compassionate/understanding and bending over backwards to keep a player happy. The club didn't act in the best interests of itself with Schahce. I guarantee the bigger AFL clubs would have. They would have given him all the support in the world, but they certainly wouldn't have given him away like that.

I would actually argue what we did with Schahce was pretty close to giving away high end talent for nothing (just like Port did with Stevens). We didn't need to do this, as everyone knows, he was contracted.

As for Rocky, i think when a club is at the bottom of the table, it is fairly accepted practice that your best players are paid above the market rate. I am willing to bet we didn't want to do this for Rocky. So while it probably can he argued we didn't push him out. I think that is a matter of perspective and what side of the fence you are sitting on.

Btw i call total BS on the queries on Rockliff's recent injuries (with that being some people's reasoning at validating letting Tom go). I am willing to bet he plays close to full seasons with port and performs at a high level.

 

[M Malice]

how in the hell are we filling the salary cap?

It was mentioned somewhere on BF Lions that Hodge is on a substantial $$$ contract for season 2018 which then drops down significantly in 2019 for the expected increase for some our younger players from 2019 and beyond.

I would assume D.Beams and Zorko would be on really good coin and Rich signed a generous $$$ and length contract not that long ago.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Bewick, Frost and Bell. Seriously there must be some uncontracted talented player we can throw cash at before the end of the drafts

Not sure about the others but Frost is on a pittance from what I remember.

 

[Rocketman1984]

Not sure about the others but Frost is on a pittance from what I remember.

Whatever it is, it's too much ATM

 

[pod17]

Brisbane will always get loads of speculation on its Victorian players. If not Schahce it will be Witherden or Mcluggage in 2018. We cannot shy away from the attention. We need to control it. By just giving up on home sick players we are just feeding into this sourthern media witch hunt (which is clearly working - they got their man in Schache). It was a mistake to give up Schahce so easily.

With Schahce there should have been a difference between being compassionate/understanding and bending over backwards to keep a player happy. The club didn't act in the best interests of itself with Schahce. I guarantee the bigger AFL clubs would have. They would have given him all the support in the world, but they certainly wouldn't have given him away like that.

I would actually argue what we did with Schahce was pretty close to giving away high end talent for nothing (just like Port did with Stevens). We didn't need to do this, as everyone knows, he was contracted.

As for Rocky, i think when a club is at the bottom of the table, it is fairly accepted practice that your best players are paid above the market rate. I am willing to bet we didn't want to do this for Rocky. So while it probably can he argued we didn't push him out. I think that is a matter of perspective and what side of the fence you are sitting on.

Btw i call total BS on the queries on Rockliff's recent injuries (with that being some people's reasoning at validating letting Tom go). I am willing to bet he plays close to full seasons with port and performs at a high level.

Definitely agree with some of your points Dom - especially your first around Brisbane always going to be the centre of attention for Vic clubs trying to lure our players south. However, aside from Aish, Schache has been the first high-profile recruit to want out since 2013. When you compare that to the likes of the Giants and Suns who have had plenty request to leave in that time, we are doing something right. I will back our processes in to retain the likes of Witherden and McLuggage.

In theory Schache's contract extension should have put us in a strong position, but the club probably thought him sticking around would do more harm than good - both to him and the culture we are working hard to establish. I agree that at some point we are going to have to make a stand and show that we won't be pushed around, but when there are (in all likelihood) mental health factors involved it becomes more complicated. Every workplace around Australia is becoming more aware of these sorts of issues, and it appears our club is no different. We tried to support him, realised we couldn't, and in the end moved him to Melbourne where he could receive the support he needed. Had Schache have been Aish, a second year player chasing more money at a club with a bigger profile, I would have been all for holding him to the contract he signed or bleeding a suitor for top dollar.

Re Rockliff, I agree you could look at his situation both ways. But, I feel as if we are managing our payments and list spots more responsibly post 2015 (with the exception of Frost). He has become our first higher profile player to not be paid overs in a mediocre side. I am fine with that if it means we have more in the bank to offer the likes of Hipwood, Andrews, Pick 1 this year etc who will make up the nucleus of our next finals team.

 

[Forward We Go]

Brisbane will always get loads of speculation on its Victorian players. If not Schahce it will be Witherden or Mcluggage in 2018. We cannot shy away from the attention. We need to control it. By just giving up on home sick players we are just feeding into this sourthern media witch hunt (which is clearly working - they got their man in Schache). It was a mistake to give up Schahce so easily.

With Schahce there should have been a difference between being compassionate/understanding and bending over backwards to keep a player happy. The club didn't act in the best interests of itself with Schahce. I guarantee the bigger AFL clubs would have. They would have given him all the support in the world, but they certainly wouldn't have given him away like that.

I would actually argue what we did with Schahce was pretty close to giving away high end talent for nothing (just like Port did with Stevens). We didn't need to do this, as everyone knows, he was contracted.

As for Rocky, i think when a club is at the bottom of the table, it is fairly accepted practice that your best players are paid above the market rate. I am willing to bet we didn't want to do this for Rocky. So while it probably can he argued we didn't push him out. I think that is a matter of perspective and what side of the fence you are sitting on.

Btw i call total BS on the queries on Rockliff's recent injuries (with that being some people's reasoning at validating letting Tom go). I am willing to bet he plays close to full seasons with port and performs at a high level.

Unless you know something more from the inner sanctum of the club, I am 100% confident we did EVERYTHING we could to help Schache with his problems. I can assure you its not only homesickness he is battling with and I also believe the club tried everything it could to help him through the issues he has/had. Then (after 1 1/2 years), they came to the conclusion that it just wasn't going to work up in Brisbane for Schache and we needed to get what we could out of him moving back to Victoria. To question our football administration's actions with Schache and to say they didn't act in the best interests of itself & Schache is 100% wrong IMO. Noble/Fagan & Co are some of the best in the business. Hopefully, (given time) they will receive the respect they deserve from supporters like yourself who think differently.

 

[briztoon]

Definitely agree with some of your points Dom - especially your first around Brisbane always going to be the centre of attention for Vic clubs trying to lure our players south. However, aside from Aish, Schache has been the first high-profile recruit to want out since 2013. When you compare that to the likes of the Giants and Suns who have had plenty request to leave in that time, we are doing something right. I will back our processes in to retain the likes of Witherden and McLuggage.

In theory Schache's contract extension should have put us in a strong position, but the club probably thought him sticking around would do more harm than good - both to him and the culture we are working hard to establish. I agree that at some point we are going to have to make a stand and show that we won't be pushed around, but when there are (in all likelihood) mental health factors involved it becomes more complicated. Every workplace around Australia is becoming more aware of these sorts of issues, and it appears our club is no different. We tried to support him, realised we couldn't, and in the end moved him to Melbourne where he could receive the support he needed. Had Schache have been Aish, a second year player chasing more money at a club with a bigger profile, I would have been all for holding him to the contract he signed or bleeding a suitor for top dollar.

Re Rockliff, I agree you could look at his situation both ways. But, I feel as if we are managing our payments and list spots more responsibly post 2015 (with the exception of Frost). He has become our first higher profile player to not be paid overs in a mediocre side. I am fine with that if it means we have more in the bank to offer the likes of Hipwood, Andrews, Pick 1 this year etc who will make up the nucleus of our next finals team.

Because since 2013 Schache was our first high profile recruit.

2014 we traded out all our high draft picks in the trades for Beams and Bundy.

Our first pick in 2014 was an academy pick of Liam Dawson at pick 44. Followed by another academy pick in Harris Andrews at pick 61.

We were never going to lose our 2014 draft picks to go home factor because they are home.

So 2015 is the first draft since Aish in 2013 where we could lose a high profile interstate kid.

 

[pod17]

Because since 2013 Schache was our first high profile recruit.

2014 we traded out all our high draft picks in the trades for Beams and Bundy.

Our first pick in 2014 was an academy pick of Liam Dawson at pick 44. Followed by another academy pick in Harris Andrews at pick 61.

We were never going to lose our 2014 draft picks to go home factor because they are home.

So 2015 is the first draft since Aish in 2013 where we could lose a high profile interstate kid.

I did say higher profile not higher draft pick. I am referring to recently recruited players that had started to generate interest from interstate clubs like Taylor, Cutler, McStay, Gardiner etc. All have elected to stay in recent times which, in my opinion, reflects an improvement in our player retention/culture.

 

[Cockliff38]

Unless you know something more from the inner sanctum of the club, I am 100% confident we did EVERYTHING we could to help Schache with his problems. I can assure you its not only homesickness he is battling with and I also believe the club tried everything it could to help him through the issues he has/had. Then (after 1 1/2 years), they came to the conclusion that it just wasn't going to work up in Brisbane for Schache and we needed to get what we could out of him moving back to Victoria. To question our football administration's actions with Schache and to say they didn't act in the best interests of itself & Schache is 100% wrong IMO. Noble/Fagan & Co are some of the best in the business. Hopefully, (given time) they will receive the respect they deserve from supporters like yourself who think differently.

Couldn't agree more. The club went above and beyond for Schache. I'd hazard a guess and say it probably got to a point where they said "Look, this isn't sustainable and it probably isn't fair on the rest of the playing group".

 

[James North]

A really homesick Schache and a disgruntled Rockliff are not players you want taking up list spots and salary cap.

 

[Dom PC]

Unless you know something more from the inner sanctum of the club, I am 100% confident we did EVERYTHING we could to help Schache with his problems. I can assure you its not only homesickness he is battling with and I also believe the club tried everything it could to help him through the issues he has/had. Then (after 1 1/2 years), they came to the conclusion that it just wasn't going to work up in Brisbane for Schache and we needed to get what we could out of him moving back to Victoria. To question our football administration's actions with Schache and to say they didn't act in the best interests of itself & Schache is 100% wrong IMO. Noble/Fagan & Co are some of the best in the business. Hopefully, (given time) they will receive the respect they deserve from supporters like yourself who think differently.

I am not disputing the quality, amount of time or effort put into Schahce. I have no doubt it was 1st class.

I am critical of the fact we gave up on him so soon.

Even the best make mistakes. Unfortunately for us, we will never know if this was one of them.

There is an argument to be made that the club put Schahce's interests before itself. I think the outcome of the whole saga shows that. It should have been more mutually beneficial.

There is no doubting the club ****ed up big time on the compensation we got for Schahce.

I am big fans of Swany, Noble and Fagan. They are the right people for the job, but as I said. Everyone makes mistakes and no one should be exempt from criticism.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

A really homesick Schache and a disgruntled Rockliff are not players you want taking up list spots and salary cap.

I like my players homehealthy and gruntled.

 

[POBT]

I think it is fair to question whether the club could have done any more. Every organisation should be asking themselves that question in terms of its critical activities. Not striving to improve means you are probably going backwards, relative to our competitors. Noble himself has said that they'll look at what more they can do to support players living away from home.

But it is a completely different question to ask "would it have made a difference?" I tend to think that Schache had become a lost cause and everything the club has said indicates that they thought the likelihood of him playing his whole career at Brisbane wasn't all that high.

Sure, if we had kept him for another 12 months to re-assess, we may have rebuilt his confidence, improved his wellbeing and had him positioned as a more valuable trade target. But we also ran the risk of exacerbating whatever issues Schache had, using welfare resources that would otherwise been directed towards other players (including our new draftees) and ending up 1 year down the track with an even more miserable player with even less value on the trade table.

It is all well and good for us to say the club "should have backed itself in" but none of us in the position to know whether that was feasible.

 

[Nunez]

I am not disputing the quality, amount of time or effort put into Schahce. I have no doubt it was 1st class.

I am critical of the fact we gave up on him so soon.

Even the best make mistakes. Unfortunately for us, we will never know if this was one of them.

There is an argument to be made that the club put Schahce's interests before itself. I think the outcome of the whole saga shows that. It should have been more mutually beneficial.

There is no doubting the club ****** up big time on the compensation we got for Schahce.

I am big fans of Swany, Noble and Fagan. They are the right people for the job, but as I said. Everyone makes mistakes and no one should be exempt from criticism.

For 1, it is SCHACHE. 2, you keep saying we ****ed up big time for Schache. What is wrong with points equalling pick 13 for a guy with serious problems that trading was the best solution for both parties despite all the work we'd put in?

Ask yourself this as well: if Schache has high ability like most believe - why is it that nobody wanted him and pick 25 managed to win him? If you can't see there is more to the story I don't know how else to convince you.

Pick 20 and 25 were likely going to be points for Ballenden at best, so moving our points into the 40s and upgrading pick 20 to pick 15 after traditing pick 12 was a smart move. Now we've got 3 first round draft picks, Cameron, Ballenden and Hodge.

 

[luthor]

This continued carping about how badly we did with the Schache trade reminds me of this oldie but goodie