List Mgmt. 2017 Trade & FA Targets Part 1

[thepoyz]

I don't want every one just one or two good ones from our high picks. So far Gresham looks like a gun but he's not there yet and Carlisle has missed a year, been suspended by the club and is just going ATM.

Carlisle is tracking really well, as is Gresh. Really, you've got problems with two high end picks, both of whom have shown the talent but have ?s on them. It is ok to be a touch concerned about JB and Paddy but they've both not had the cleanest of runs at it. Fingers crossed it clicks for both of them.

 

[plugger66]

Hindsight expert. I'm getting worried about our list, I'm sorry I'm not as confident as everyone else about how good our kids are tracking, I want to be.

I probably agree with you there but then claiming a poster picked a player loses a little credibility. I once challenged hightsight Big Mark to give is his top 5 picks we should take before a draft one year and he came up with Todd Elton. Funny how some get it wrong before a draft but get it right after a draft. By the way I wanted Judd, Petracca, Bont, Rioli, Dangerfield, Fyffe, Sandilands and many others before the draft. Since those decisions the club got me on as a recruiter and I picked Cowell, Howard, Raph Clarke, LJ Conners and Spencer White. I'm good.

 

[lewdogs]

2011 draft was a good one for us... picked up Ross, Newnes and Webster with picks 25, 37 and 42 respectively. All best 22 now.

Interestingly, it was only in 2016 that Ross really came good as a player, so in his 5th season. Now he's probably in our best 5 players. Jimmy is hitting his straps now in 2017. For Newnes, it was probably 2015 where he broke out.

We need to be patient, there's just no two ways about it.

 

[Rors]

Come on. Petracca has looked better in more games than Billings and that's coming off an ACL and a year less in the AFL. Billings has had 2 or 3 really good to very good games and then big drop offs. Petracca may not have had those big games yet but is far more damaging. I'm sure stats will show they are close but id rather watch both play and Petracca is ahead. Having said that who really cares. We haven't got him bit we do have Billings and I hope today he shows why he was a pick 3 and not on nondescript pick 23.

Billings 2 best games have been better than Petracca's best games. I just want to see Billings do it more often.

As for Petracca, he's a solid player. But saying he plays like a champ? Come on, leave those words for blokes like Pendles, Fyfe & Danger

 

[VDS66]

Billings 2 best games have been better than Petracca's best games. I just want to see Billings do it more often.

As for Petracca, he's a solid player. But saying he plays like a champ? Come on, leave those words for blokes like Pendles, Fyfe & Danger

Lol Brayshaw called him elite yesterday on radio...

 

[saintbill]

2011 draft was a good one for us... picked up Ross, Newnes and Webster with picks 25, 37 and 42 respectively. All best 22 now.

Interestingly, it was only in 2016 that Ross really came good as a player, so in his 5th season. Now he's probably in our best 5 players. Jimmy is hitting his straps now in 2017. For Newnes, it was probably 2015 where he broke out.

We need to be patient, there's just no two ways about it.

None of those players are or ever will be elite. The point is valid, but ultimately we were expecting pick 1 and 3 to produce guns, not more best 22 players. Call for patience overlooks the fact that most superstars show plenty very early. Its harsh, but a big part of our rebuild was dependant on drafting at least 3 elite stars. We expected at least 1 more high end draft pick, and the 2 that we have are miles off it.

As good as we have been with our later picks and bringing in good players from other clubs there are major question marks over our decision to select Billings and McCartin. There is no point winning 10 black jack hands in a row for $100 each, and then losing 2 hands at a $1,000 each. If Billings and McCartin turn out to be just okay, our rebuild is in big trouble. Where are we going to find 3-6 elite players from? We need to find them in a hurry or any thoughts of seriously challenging are pure fantasy.

Billings in particular needs to take a massive step this year. I dont care about his stats either, gets a ton of meaningless possessions. Needs to start impacting games. In general, I would say say the time for excuses is over for this playing group and coaching staff. This is our 5th year rebuilding and 2 out of 3 of our best players are 33+. If some of our kids dont show rapid improvement, landing a Fyfe will be a complete waste of time as we are still miles off a premiership list.

 

[StCicatriz]

Do you blame him? You are obsessed with Freo.. there's another team over there known as the west coast eagles... just in case you weren't aware.

post on their board regularly and comment on them on here too... in case you you weren't aware

 

[StCicatriz]

The dogs also had Billings at 3 and Melbourne had him before Kelly. It's just the way it goes. Need JB to get his confidence up, the talent is there.

this. i dont think picking billings was the wrong move

people have to remember that bontempelli wasnt even in draft calculations that year. from memory the 3 names being talked about at our pick were: Billings, Aish, Scharenberg. i think we picked the right player out of the three

i think the issue here is player development. many of our players go backwards once theyve been drafted. the players that show improvement tend to be the blokes we poach from other clubs

 

[StCicatriz]

Billings 2 best games have been better than Petracca's best games. I just want to see Billings do it more often.

As for Petracca, he's a solid player. But saying he plays like a champ? Come on, leave those words for blokes like Pendles, Fyfe & Danger

this. i dont get the hype. petracca will be a very good player and has a load of potential but he's not even A grade yet, let alone elite or a champ

midfielders are always easier to acquire than KPP talent, so i dont have an issue with taking a tall at pick 1 over a midfielder. i mean look at melbourne, i would argue that oliver is a better prospect than petracca yet he was taken further down the draft. cripps for carlton. hell even merret at essendon, powell-pepper etc. the list goes on. but its very unlikely you can get a decent tall forward outside of the first round, the only exception is academy/father son selections

i was in favor of taking petracca but i understand and accept the logic behind selecting a tall. the question i had on taking mccartin, as i posted in 2014, is that mccartin was going to be a full forward or bust. there is no other position you can play him in. i also questioned his mobility and ability to compete. he's not like tex or kennedy who are still pretty mobile for a Full Forward, and have decent agility. McCartin just looks like he's going to seriously struggle to cover the ground, which means his man often runs off him, making it easier for the opposition to move the ball out of their D50. plus they then create an extra player and overlap on the rebound. it kills us. if he doesnt improve that side of his game the pick will be a bust as no ones going to take a 1 dimensional player like that. having said that its still far too early to call the pick a bust. he needs another 2 pre-seasons and senior game time. similar to hawkins. the crap part for mccartin is that if our midfield was firing we'd be able to cover his weaknesses, similar to geelong with hawkins. but because of midfield is so bad and struggles to run out games, it means mccartins issues are amplified to the point we cant afford to carry him

moving back to the pick, i wanted us to take wright if we were taking a tall as atleast wright had more strings to his bow, he could play ruck or tall forward. he also had attributes that made him more like a modern tall forward, where as paddy is a throw back to the old school 90s full forward. there's a reason why clubs dont have those players anymore. since then we found bruce CHF and Membrey third tall. so our fwd line would look more structured with wright vs mccartin:

HF Billings Bruce Weller
F Gresham Wright Membrey

 

[lewdogs]

None of those players are or ever will be elite. The point is valid, but ultimately we were expecting pick 1 and 3 to produce guns, not more best 22 players. Call for patience overlooks the fact that most superstars show plenty very early. Its harsh, but a big part of our rebuild was dependant on drafting at least 3 elite stars. We expected at least 1 more high end draft pick, and the 2 that we have are miles off it.

As good as we have been with our later picks and bringing in good players from other clubs there are major question marks over our decision to select Billings and McCartin. There is no point winning 10 black jack hands in a row for $100 each, and then losing 2 hands at a $1,000 each. If Billings and McCartin turn out to be just okay, our rebuild is in big trouble. Where are we going to find 3-6 elite players from? We need to find them in a hurry or any thoughts of seriously challenging are pure fantasy.

Billings in particular needs to take a massive step this year. I dont care about his stats either, gets a ton of meaningless possessions. Needs to start impacting games. In general, I would say say the time for excuses is over for this playing group and coaching staff. This is our 5th year rebuilding and 2 out of 3 of our best players are 33+. If some of our kids dont show rapid improvement, landing a Fyfe will be a complete waste of time as we are still miles off a premiership list.

It's just an ongoing glass-half-empty approach from our fans. How can you say none of those players will become elite? What year of his career did Jack Steven become an elite player? Drafted in 2008 and hit his straps in 2013. Pick 42 in the draft.

Sorry but Paddy has shown plenty in the small number of games he's played. Seems a little low on form at the moment though. Billings appears to be still working it out at the level. If we're going to bank our entire future on two players then we've got the wrong idea though.

Oh and for those creaming over Petracca, I actually reckon the Dees would have preferred Paddy out there for them yesterday.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

None of those players are or ever will be elite. The point is valid, but ultimately we were expecting pick 1 and 3 to produce guns, not more best 22 players. Call for patience overlooks the fact that most superstars show plenty very early. Its harsh, but a big part of our rebuild was dependant on drafting at least 3 elite stars. We expected at least 1 more high end draft pick, and the 2 that we have are miles off it.

As good as we have been with our later picks and bringing in good players from other clubs there are major question marks over our decision to select Billings and McCartin. There is no point winning 10 black jack hands in a row for $100 each, and then losing 2 hands at a $1,000 each. If Billings and McCartin turn out to be just okay, our rebuild is in big trouble. Where are we going to find 3-6 elite players from? We need to find them in a hurry or any thoughts of seriously challenging are pure fantasy.

Billings in particular needs to take a massive step this year. I dont care about his stats either, gets a ton of meaningless possessions. Needs to start impacting games. In general, I would say say the time for excuses is over for this playing group and coaching staff. This is our 5th year rebuilding and 2 out of 3 of our best players are 33+. If some of our kids dont show rapid improvement, landing a Fyfe will be a complete waste of time as we are still miles off a premiership list.

And I would argue that both have shown elite capabilities but haven't had lucky runs with injury.

2 weeks ago Paddy was tracking very nicely so it's only taken one game for the knuckleheads to come out & write him off.

JB was good in the 1st two rounds, has a stinker & now he's a dud. Now some are taking about him possibly leaving & going to Essendope & it being a positive thing. Seriously FMD!

It's not just supporters being impatient, its supporters being totally incoherent. It just doesn't make sense.

And quoting BigMart as a draft guru???? I've heard it all.


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[Glen Buterol]

Taking Billings at 3 & Paddy at 1 looks like being a bust but it's a early & of course things can change.

On the other end of the spectrum we got Gresh with 18, Acres with 19 & Dunny with 18. The former 2 are showing signs of being inspired picks. Dunny is looking very solid.

The biggest draft year of concern is 2014. Paddy, Hugh, Mckenzie & Lonie. On paper it looks good however in reality we have 2 resigned to vfl, one coming off a long term injury & the other in & out of seniors. I feel th 2014 draft along with 2013 will make or break us.

Btw I wanted Aish, Merrett & Cripps with our 2013 draft picks. Aish looks inferior to Billings, Merrett would've been handy ahead of one of Dunny or Acres & Cripps looks a gun but wasn't in our range for picks we had.

In 2014 like most I desperately wanted Petracca however had Paddy pretty clear as second although a fair way behind CP.

In 2015 I wanted Tucker & had little idea about Gresh. Bloody happy with Gresh.

In 2016 I was hoping for Berry or Simpkin to slide however had Ridley as the more realistic it at our first pick. We'll see how those boys & Long go.

Paddy ahead of CP the one that hurst the most. Billings was always going to go ahead of Bont, Cripps & Merrett. You win some you lose some. Gresh, Acres & Dunny might make up for past mistakes.

 

[holllywood]

Yeah, we were never in the race for him but they were brave and traded to get him and Weed, WB did it with Bont where they jumped in early when they spotted the talent. We may have overly focussed on good guys instead of talent.

We jumped in early to get Ben Long last year.

So if it doesn't work out, do we blame the recruiters for not picking someone more well known on BigFooty forums?

 

[StCicatriz]

the problem i have with the billings and mccartin criticism is theres a bit of revisionism going on. people forget the topic of discussion that was going around that year prior to selection

the other problem i have is that we are throwing fault solely at the recruiters. the system doesnt work that way. its the job of the recruiters to identify talent and bring them through the door. from there on its the responsibility of the senior coach and the development system he has put in place to develop them into AFL players

i would argue that whilst there maybe 1 or 2 better picks over the last 5-6 drafts this recruitment team has been put in place for, for the most part i think theyve picked the eyes out of the draft. i think theyve nailed a lot of picks and got a lot more right than wrong. especially when you compare it to all the other recruitment teams out there. i mean look at richmond!!!!

the issue is looking more and more like player development for mine but without being inside the club, how would we know?

 

[StCicatriz]

Taking Billings at 3 & Paddy at 1 looks like being a bust but it's a early & of course things can change.

On the other end of the spectrum we got Gresh with 18, Acres with 19 & Dunny with 18. The former 2 are showing signs of being inspired picks. Dunny is looking very solid.

The biggest draft year of concern is 2014. Paddy, Hugh, Mckenzie & Lonie. On paper it looks good however in reality we have 2 resigned to vfl, one coming off a long term injury & the other in & out of seniors. I feel th 2014 draft along with 2013 will make or break us.

Btw I wanted Aish, Merrett & Cripps with our 2013 draft picks. Aish looks inferior to Billings, Merrett would've been handy ahead of one of Dunny or Acres & Cripps looks a gun but wasn't in our range for picks we had.

In 2014 like most I desperately wanted Petracca however had Paddy pretty clear as second although a fair way behind CP.

In 2015 I wanted Tucker & had little idea about Gresh. Bloody happy with Gresh.

In 2016 I was hoping for Berry or Simpkin to slide however had Ridley as the more realistic it at our first pick. We'll see how those boys & Long go.

Paddy ahead of CP the one that hurst the most. Billings was always going to go ahead of Bont, Cripps & Merrett. You win some you lose some. Gresh, Acres & Dunny might make up for past mistakes.

the issue the recruitment team will have is if they dont absolutely nail the hawthorn pick and if ben long/battle dont come on. that will be the KO, as they essentially gave up on the following talent:
Florent
Simpkin
Powell-Pepper
English
Hayward
Ridley
Witherden
Cox

personally i dont think it will be an issue though, i think hawthorns pick will be a pretty good pick and i think we will make the right move. thats before you look at long or battle coming on

 

[Rors]

McCartin was selected for life post-Riewoldt... A very good selection IMHO

TBH, I don't really give a **** where he playing (seniors or reserves) as long as he continues to develop as a player & improve his tank

 

[#gosaintas]

McCartin was selected for life post-Riewoldt...

TBH, I don't really give a **** where he playing (seniors or reserves) as long as he continues to develop as a player & improve his tank

This

 

[saintbill]

It's just an ongoing glass-half-empty approach from our fans. How can you say none of those players will become elite? What year of his career did Jack Steven become an elite player? Drafted in 2008 and hit his straps in 2013. Pick 42 in the draft.

Sorry but Paddy has shown plenty in the small number of games he's played. Seems a little low on form at the moment though. Billings appears to be still working it out at the level. If we're going to bank our entire future on two players then we've got the wrong idea though.

Oh and for those creaming over Petracca, I actually reckon the Dees would have preferred Paddy out there for them yesterday.

I am not ruling out the fact some of our young players could become elite. However, reality is they need to step it up, and the time is now. I think we are further away than I expected 3 years ago. Not from a win/loss perspective but that does not really tell the true story. Our best player is still Riewoldt and Montagna is not far behind, with Geary not much further behind that. Had you told me tht 3 years ago I would have been pretty shattered.

I openly admit I am more negative this year than I have been for a long time about the Saints. Expectations are higher, we put up with some putrid football for 4 seasons before 2016. The Dees game was the most dissapointing game since the 2010 GF replay IMO. We have had plenty of time to develop talent, this is the season we need significant improvement from our young brigade or questions need to be asked. Incremental improvement is not enough any more. A few them need to start tearing games up. If not expect a slide back down the ladder post Roo and Joey.

 

[Glen Buterol]

the issue the recruitment team will have is if they dont absolutely nail the hawthorn pick and if ben long/battle dont come on. that will be the KO, as they essentially gave up on the following talent:
Florent
Simpkin
Powell-Pepper
English
Hayward
Ridley
Witherden
Cox

personally i dont think it will be an issue though, i think hawthorns pick will be a pretty good pick and i think we will make the right move. thats before you look at long or battle coming on

Forent wasn't available to us. Simpkin looks like the one that got away however I suspect those clubs with top 10 picks will be the ones kicking themselves in the next few years.

Agree, we need to nail our early picks this year. Grab a bullet proof midfielder.

 

[StCicatriz]

McCartin was selected for life post-Riewoldt...

TBH, I don't really give a **** where he playing (seniors or reserves) as long as he continues to develop as a player & improve his tank

i think you are right. at that point in 2014 it looked like we had no tall fwds coming on. lee looked shot. maister i cant remember if he had retired by this point. spencer white looked too scared to go anywhere near a contested mark.

then you look at roo and there was no guarantee he would go around from much longer

so i can understand why we made the long term move. was it the right tall forward though, that i am not convinced on just yet. i'm still somewhat on the wright bandwagon, especially now that we have bruce/membrey (but we didnt know about bruce or membrey back in 2014)

 

[Diehard Saint]

post on their board regularly and comment on them on here too... in case you you weren't aware

I, for one, am quite happy to hear your insights about both WA teams. We are saturated here with the Victorian teams, obviously, but I like to hear your opinions and wouldn't mind hearing more about the other states too from those posters who live in them.

 

[Roadto2018]

McCartin was selected for life post-Riewoldt...

TBH, I don't really give a **** where he playing (seniors or reserves) as long as he continues to develop as a player & improve his tank

THIS.
We will NOT see the best of Paddy until Roo is finished. He's shown signs that suggest he'll be worth the punt, and when he's the main man and fully adapted to the rigours of the game at the highest level, I'm sure we as supporters will be rapt to have him.

I'm fully comfortable with taking him over Petracca now, fair to say i wasn't at all at draft time. If our plan of landing a big fish comes off then the selection is even more justified.

 

[gringo2011]

i think you are right. at that point in 2014 it looked like we had no tall fwds coming on. lee looked shot. maister i cant remember if he had retired by this point. spencer white looked too scared to go anywhere near a contested mark.

then you look at roo and there was no guarantee he would go around from much longer

so i can understand why we made the long term move. was it the right tall forward though, that i am not convinced on just yet. i'm still somewhat on the wright bandwagon, especially now that we have bruce/membrey (but we didnt know about bruce or membrey back in 2014)

I actually reckon Paddy cost Lee his forward career though. He never got another chance after showing more early than Paddy. If Lee had faults as a forward it was his one way game and I would say that's Paddy's issue too. He's a bit slow and doesn't chase or close out space.

 

[gringo2011]

THIS.
We will NOT see the best of Paddy until Roo is finished. He's shown signs that suggest he'll be worth the punt, and when he's the main man and fully adapted to the rigours of the game at the highest level, I'm sure we as supporters will be rapt to have him.

I'm fully comfortable with taking him over Petracca now, fair to say i wasn't at all at draft time. If our plan of landing a big fish comes off then the selection is even more justified.

I'm the opposite, I still hold out hope for Paddy and Billings but seeing guys fly past them makes my head hurt.

 

[saintbill]

And I would argue that both have shown elite capabilities but haven't had lucky runs with injury.

2 weeks ago Paddy was tracking very nicely so it's only taken one game for the knuckleheads to come out & write him off.

JB was good in the 1st two rounds, has a stinker & now he's a dud. Now some are taking about him possibly leaving & going to Essendope & it being a positive thing. Seriously FMD!

It's not just supporters being impatient, its supporters being totally incoherent. It just doesn't make sense.

And quoting BigMart as a draft guru???? I've heard it all.


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Elite capabilities, sure I can agree on that. However, this is exactly the point. Other clubs are converting elite capabilities into elite footballers. We have not done this with a youngster for some time now. Jack Steven was the last, before that you had to go back to the Grant Thomas era.

Potential is so overrated, its time to start delivering or we can forgot about viewing ourselves as an up and coming challenger. Why do our youngsters require so much time when clearly this is not always the case at other clubs?

I have faith that our young blokes can do it, but it needs to start happening pretty damn soon otherwise we are half a dozen guns short doing anything with this list.