No Oppo Supporters 2018 General AFL Discussion

[Punts]

Very few players in the comp do long kicks well. Buddy is probably the best in the comp at it. Selwood Dangerfield Fyfe Mitchell... all average at it.

I think some on here like to run with the theory that we have no mids except JPK, no one in our team runs, and no one in our team besides Buddy can kick the pill. Lloyd is an interruption to that theory because he performs every week, uses the ball very well, makes great decisions, is tough as nails and provides more movement than probably anyone in our side, including "speedsters" like Jones and Rohan.

He is in our top five players.

I doubt that you will find anyone that knows and watches a lot of footy that will agree that he is top 50 in the comp , or even top 5 and the club

He doesn’t even get a tag , never I have seen

 

[Number37]

IMO Lloyd would be an All Australian by now if he was at another club that afforded him time and space to do damage. He loves to take the game on with his run, then use precise kicking to find targets (and they're usually the right target.) His speed is under-estimated as well, as I've seen him shake tackles from some of the quickest blokes in the comp and leave them in his wake.

If he's one of our problems, it's because he favours kicking over stupid hospital handpasses and long bombs which is the opposite of what every other bloke in our side does. If only we had 21 other Lloyds in the side... far out.

Nah, doubt it.
He only really cemented his place in our team last year, you are overrating his kicking in a big way. He is a steady hand, doesn't make too many mistakes but he is limited in what he can do offensively because his kicking isn't elite. Go watch Sicily kick the ball, that is elite.

 

[caesar88]

I doubt that you will find anyone that knows and watches a lot of footy that will agree that he is top 50 in the comp , or even top 5 and the club

Which just proves how under-rated his role is in the competition. We would be ****** without him

 

[caesar88]

Nah, doubt it.
He only really cemented his place in our team last year, you are overrating his kicking in a big way. He is a steady hand, doesn't make too many mistakes but he is limited in what he can do offensively because his kicking isn't elite. Go watch Sicily kick the ball, that is elite.

If Lloyd had been traded from Hawthorn and played one year under Clarkson this board would hail him as an anchor of our side.

 

[caesar88]

Sorry mate and might be harsh but lack of knowledge if you think Lloyd is top 50 in the comp

Only my opinion

Right back atcha re Lynch

 

[Number37]

If Lloyd had been traded from Hawthorn and played one year under Clarkson this board would hail him as an anchor of our side.

Is Tom Mitchell part of that trade? LOL

Cunningham is a far better kick than Lloyd, if only he had Lloyd's application.

 

[caesar88]

Is Tom Mitchell part of that trade? LOL

Cunningham is a far better kick than Lloyd, if only he had Lloyd's application.

Lol i'm referring to the fact that of course everything is better at Hawthorn according to this board.

Cunningham does some absolute howlers and his decision-making can be poor, as he shits the bed per se.

Lloyd does not shit the bed. He's Pendlebury-esque with his composure. Unfortunately putting a 24 yr old in the same sentence as a great of the game makes people think I'm somehow saying they're equals. But Lloyd reminds me a lot of Pendlebury the way he plays.

 

[Punts]

If he was so damerging of HB and getting 25+ a week that breaks games open you would teams would time into him like they do with laird , Williams , witfeild , johanosin , Smith , touhy, houli etc etc etc etc

 

[Tedeski]

I doubt that you will find anyone that knows and watches a lot of footy that will agree that he is top 50 in the comp , or even top 5 and the club

He doesn’t even get a tag , never I have seen


Sorry mate To say he is top 50 is lack of knowledge imo

Thats a little unfair.
It's just how he sees it.

 

[caesar88]

Your being silly and looking rather silly

According to you?

I think a top 50 player should be having an impact on the game every week. IMO there are only three key forwards in the comp over the past few years that have proven to do that, which is Buddy, Roughead and Kennedy. Ben Brown and Jesse Hogan and Jeremy Cameron are getting there. Lynch just does not do that enough. Granted he's been in a pretty lousy side with lousy supply, but nevertheless he's more style over substance. Everyone loves a big powerful marking forward. But they're not good for a lot unless they're kicking lots of goals or making up for it with work off the ball. Lynch is not elite in either yet IMO.

 

[Punts]

According to you?

I think a top 50 player should be having an impact on the game every week. IMO there are only three key forwards in the comp over the past few years that have proven to do that, which is Buddy, Roughead and Kennedy. Ben Brown and Jesse Hogan and Jeremy Cameron are getting there. Lynch just does not do that enough. Granted he's been in a pretty lousy side with lousy supply, but nevertheless he's more style over substance. Everyone loves a big powerful marking forward. But they're not good for a lot unless they're kicking lots of goals or making up for it with work off the ball. Lynch is not elite in either yet IMO.

I didn’t say lynch was in the top 50 ffs

I said he is better than Lloyd

You will find it hard to find anyone that thinks Lloyd in the top 50 in the comp that knows the game and watches footy

Do a poll I don’t give a ****

 

[caesar88]

I didn’t say lynch was in the top 50 ffs

I said he is better than Lloyd

You will find it hard to find anyone that thinks Lloyd in the top 50 in the comp that knows the game and watches footy

Do a poll I don’t give a ****

Well I'm happy to stand alone then. We're both pretty adamant in our opinions on the matter so no point going around in circles.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

This Murray trade is looking more annoying every single week...

We give up one of the few blokes on our list that could kick!

So annoying!

 

[Tedeski]

This Murray trade is looking more annoying every single week...

We give up one of the few blokes on our list that could kick!

So annoying!

He was a second year rookie that EVERY OTHER TEAM passed on in his draft year & we took him with our last pick 66 in the rookie draft meaning that every other team ignored him in that as well.
We now have a second round DRAFT pick for him in the next draft meaning if the Pies win the flag we get pick 36. We also have Ling & Stoddart who are rated higher than him at the same age. I am glad he is doing well because it took our system to improve him to where he is now & it is another win for us to upgrade our pick from 66 in the rookie draft to at worst, pick 36 in the National draft & the boy gets to play senior footy in season 2018.
Win/win.

 

[S120]

The trade for Murray happened the way it did because we also wanted more draft picks to hopefully pick up Blakey at the end of this year. We needed to stock up points.

 

[scaryness]

Lloyd is a handy player who would be best 22 for most if not all teams. I dont see him as any real threat to the other team at all. Maybe if he was kicking inside 50 more as one of the few who can hit a target, but his little dinky kicks in defensive midfield arent that threatening at all.

Elite runner, neat kick, decent speed but he is not a big enough threat to be considered a top 50 player imo.

 

[MarkP]

Regardless of how you view Lloyd we play better with him.

I believe he is a walk up start in any team in the competition - ranking is just subjective anyway unless you split by position and then stat the shit out of it.

But, and this is a big BUT, we see Lloyd in the way Horse wants him to play. He plays as told. He plays to the structure in front of him and the directions given to him.

He does not have what Murray has in front of him to kick to, or numerous other backs in the league. He is told to slow it up, maintain the pill and get it up the line to a stoppage at best.

I have no idea what his "flair" factor is. He does his job as given.

Personally I would like to see him off the leash. Bit unfair to judge him when he 100% doing the exact job given to him but hey, I am probably wrong and what we see is all he has.

In any event what you see from Lloyd is what you will get under Horse regardless.

 

[S120]

I think Longmire tells the defence to play on and switch and try and find the corridor as much as possible but other teams are good at defending against that. They know that we want to switch play to the other side of the ground a lot and they defend against it. That's why you've seen us bobble and fumble so much in defence this year when trying to rebound, because they're trying to play on (often by handpassing to teammates who are slow and tend to not be able to break lines) and get the ball moving but the pressure up the ground is too good. So they invariably make mistakes. That's what I'm seeing. And then they end up bombing down the line because there is no other option.

I think the issue is definitely to do with a lack of foot speed down back. Aliir in 2016 would slice through pressure after winning the ball and it would open up the entire ground. Lloyd is one of my most loved Swans for how consistently good he is - something that doesn't get talked about enough with him imo is how much he has improved defensively - but he just doesn't have the foot speed to do what Aliir did in 2016. I think if Aliir can get up to speed in the reserves, bringing him in for Grundy could be the play. Grundy has not had a good start to the year and generally is looking his age. At least our backline would be more athletic with him, Rampe, Marsh and potentially Jones back there. A bit more active and able to break a line. McVeigh deserves his spot back there atm but his lack of pace with Grundy and Smith hurts. McVeigh can at least buy himself time and space with how clever he is and his little pivots and twists.

 

[caesar88]

I think Longmire tells the defence to play on and switch and try and find the corridor as much as possible but other teams are good at defending against that. They know that we want to switch play to the other side of the ground a lot and they defend against it. That's why you've seen us bobble and fumble so much in defence this year when trying to rebound, because they're trying to play on (often by handpassing to teammates who are slow and tend to not be able to break lines) and get the ball moving but the pressure up the ground is too good. So they invariably make mistakes. That's what I'm seeing. And then they end up bombing down the line because there is no other option.

I think the issue is definitely to do with a lack of foot speed down back. Aliir in 2016 would slice through pressure after winning the ball and it would open up the entire ground. Lloyd is one of my most loved Swans for how consistently good he is - something that doesn't get talked about enough with him imo is how much he has improved defensively - but he just doesn't have the foot speed to do what Aliir did in 2016. I think if Aliir can get up to speed in the reserves, bringing him in for Grundy could be the play. Grundy has not had a good start to the year and generally is looking his age. At least our backline would be more athletic with him, Rampe, Marsh and potentially Jones back there. A bit more active and able to break a line. McVeigh deserves his spot back there atm but his lack of pace with Grundy and Smith hurts. McVeigh can at least buy himself time and space with how clever he is and his little pivots and twists.

Pretty sure Lloyd is quicker than Aliir. The problem is Horse is playing him wrong. Lloyd is the kicker-outer after a behind. Peak Lloyd has him kicking out of the square to say Smith, then running by to get the return handpass and clearing it out of defence. But we are structured to work in so much congestion that that crucial running pass from Smith to Lloyd is either cut off, or Lloyd has no space to actually run and carry once he does get it. And that’s our problem that I referred to a few weeks ago. Feels like every Swans game WE are the ones under pressure, because some of our best players are being hurt by our game plan and structures. This includes Buddy being ganged up on up forward, but also Lloyd not getting any space in defence at all.

 

[S120]

Pretty sure Lloyd is quicker than Aliir. The problem is Horse is playing him wrong. Lloyd is the kicker-outer after a behind. Peak Lloyd has him kicking out of the square to say Smith, then running by to get the return handpass and clearing it out of defence. But we are structured to work in so much congestion that that crucial running pass from Smith to Lloyd is either cut off, or Lloyd has no space to actually run and carry once he does get it. And that’s our problem that I referred to a few weeks ago. Feels like every Swans game WE are the ones under pressure, because some of our best players are being hurt by our game plan and structures. This includes Buddy being ganged up on up forward, but also Lloyd not getting any space in defence at all.

Lloyd is certainly not quicker off the mark than Aliir. Lloyd would probably beat him in a straight-line race over 100m, but Aliir's strengths are his athleticism, pace off the mark, and ability to stop and change direction; all of which make him valuable coming out of defence as those are the things that help break lines and beat tacklers. Lloyd is a high quality player but he simply doesn't have that kind of explosive running, which is fine, it's just not his thing. He does heaps of other shit to make for up for it.

I certainly agree with the part about watching Swans games feeling like we are constantly under pressure though.

 

[caesar88]

Lloyd is certainly not quicker off the mark than Aliir. Lloyd would probably beat him in a straight-line race over 100m, but Aliir's strengths are his athleticism, pace off the mark, and ability to stop and change direction; all of which make him valuable coming out of defence as those are the things that help break lines and beat tacklers. Lloyd is a high quality player but he simply doesn't have that kind of explosive running, which is fine, it's just not his thing. He does heaps of other shit to make for up for it.

I certainly agree with the part about watching Swans games feeling like we are constantly under pressure though.

I think you may be under-rating Lloyd's pace. Like I said, I've seen him leave some pretty quick players in his wake when he gets going. But you won't get any arguments from me RE Aliir. I'm probably the last person on this board you need to convince about Aliir's abilities

 

[bedford]

He was a second year rookie that EVERY OTHER TEAM passed on in his draft year & we took him with our last pick 66 in the rookie draft meaning that every other team ignored him in that as well.
We now have a second round DRAFT pick for him in the next draft meaning if the Pies win the flag we get pick 36. We also have Ling & Stoddart who are rated higher than him at the same age. I am glad he is doing well because it took our system to improve him to where he is now & it is another win for us to upgrade our pick from 66 in the rookie draft to at worst, pick 36 in the National draft & the boy gets to play senior footy in season 2018.
Win/win.

Crap, we didn't want to lose him as they had plans for him this year and Horse when he said he was out, called him in to his office and gave it to him. Said we gave you a chance when no one else would and you've f.ed us up the Kyper, now F off. Derek Hine I know was going to pick him later than us as a rookie.

 

[RW]

Crap, we didn't want to lose him as they had plans for him this year and Horse when he said he was out, called him in to his office and gave it to him. Said we gave you a chance when no one else would and you've f.ed us up the Kyper, now F off. Derek Hine I know was going to pick him later than us as a rookie.

Interesting. Any idea why he didn't want to stay? He's from NSW, so it wasn't the 'go home' factor.

 

[Number37]

Crap, we didn't want to lose him as they had plans for him this year and Horse when he said he was out, called him in to his office and gave it to him. Said we gave you a chance when no one else would and you've f.ed us up the Kyper, now F off.

If that is the story then kudos to Horse.

 

[Tedeski]

Crap, we didn't want to lose him as they had plans for him this year and Horse when he said he was out, called him in to his office and gave it to him. Said we gave you a chance when no one else would and you've f.ed us up the Kyper, now F off. Derek Hine I know was going to pick him later than us as a rookie.

Of course we didn't want to lose him but since he wanted to go we got the best we could out of it.
Stoddart will do the same to us. As soon as he shows signs someone will romance him & entice him back to Victoria. That's the cycle for us.