Analysis 2018 List Management discussion Pt 2

[Soapy V]

Last 3 weeks have been pretty good considering injuries and players missing. Beat GCS and 3 good quarters against Freo away and Bulldogs at Etihad. Shows a group with character and playing for the coach. Need another good performance this week to finish off a tough year with confidence

Benefits of playing the young players this year is starting to show through. It will pay off. They still need time but I expect a much improved side in 2019. Get the injuries right, add some mature talent and a couple of talented draftees and 8-10 wins is very realistic

Exciting times ahead. Not only do we have a great bunch of young talent but a number could be elite.

Go Blues

 

[Big Red is back]

Harry is the new prototype of the modern day forward.

Mobile,quick,can take a mark all over the ground and kick goals.

Charlie is the roaming CHF.

TDK is ruck/forward relief.

These talls are extremely hard to find hence why Sos went for them first.Build the spine then fill the gaps which we know are mids now.

I would be locking big H away for another 4 years

 

[HarryFlashman]

Harry is the new prototype of the modern day forward.

Mobile,quick,can take a mark all over the ground and kick goals.

Charlie is the roaming CHF.

TDK is ruck/forward relief.

These talls are extremely hard to find hence why Sos went for them first.Build the spine then fill the gaps which we know are mids now.

These talls are also very expensive- Charlie would be worth 2-1st round picks (1 early top 10), Harry with another good game is probably worth his pick + a late 2nd rounder, TDK is to early but as a guess - we got a bargain & his value will improve.
Not advocating we even consider trading them, but its nice to see the values go up, gives us the opportunity to develop our other young talls & turn them into good trade-able commodities, while providing depth in the interim.

 

[Arr0w]

If we are looking at pure needs and priorities for our list, it is obvious that midfielders are the number one priority, this year and next. The other area that needs addressing/consideration for the medium term, is what we do with ruckmen

Start of next year we have these options:

Kreuzer 30- Talented, heart and soul player, but his body never gives you confidence
Lobbe 30 - Durable, solid and certainly seems highly regarded, could continue to add some value for a couple more years
Phillips 27 - Talented, probably best tap ruckman we have, but does little around the ground and has never been right body wise
TDK - 19 - Finally recruited a ruckman that will have an effect when resting forward, but will take 2-3 preseasons to build his body and core strength

Then we have the backups, that would only be used in case of injuries, Levi 28, Jones 28, Rowe 31 (All are older than injury prone Phillips), McKay 21 (Really don't want him spending most of his time in the ruck)

IMO, we need to perhaps move on/trade/delist a couple of these guys and bring in a ruckman on the cheap in the 23-26 year old bracket. Some of the names that could be considered at other clubs, that might be obtainable

Scott Lycett 26 - FA that has shown is a more than capable ruckman, as well as adding value in the forward line, if someone like a McKay relieves him for periods in the game

Preuss 23 - Really like his size and agression, underrated ruckman and while not dominant as a forward, will at least bring the ball to ground, when resting forward. Minimal cost, such as a mid to late second

Darcy Cameron 23 - Capable as a ruckman and a forward, would also be a cheap option

Not suggesting this is an immediate need, but given the age/options/injury concerns of some on our list, I believe we should be planning for the transition of when someone like a TDK is ready to fill the breach. If we moved on, 2-3 of Levi, Rowe, Jones, Phillips and added one of the above players, it would reduce the talls on our list, while allowing for better coverage

 

[Duigan Alley34]

Harry is the new prototype of the modern day forward.

Mobile,quick,can take a mark all over the ground and kick goals.

Charlie is the roaming CHF.

TDK is ruck/forward relief.

These talls are extremely hard to find hence why Sos went for them first.Build the spine then fill the gaps which we know are mids now.

Their mobility is going to allow us to play as a much taller side than our opposition, giving us advantage in the air without conceding too much at ground level.

Charlie is an elite key forward in the air and a midfielder on the ground...will be incredible

 

[Faz 2000]

No ...he plays the half back flank with Lloyd on the other flank and marchbank in the centre of the two flanks

I believe this position is known as the central left-right defensive flank.

 

[CJMB]

If we are looking at pure needs and priorities for our list, it is obvious that midfielders are the number one priority, this year and next. The other area that needs addressing/consideration for the medium term, is what we do with ruckmen

Start of next year we have these options:

Kreuzer 30- Talented, heart and soul player, but his body never gives you confidence
Lobbe 30 - Durable, solid and certainly seems highly regarded, could continue to add some value for a couple more years
Phillips 27 - Talented, probably best tap ruckman we have, but does little around the ground and has never been right body wise
TDK - 19 - Finally recruited a ruckman that will have an effect when resting forward, but will take 2-3 preseasons to build his body and core strength

Then we have the backups, that would only be used in case of injuries, Levi 28, Jones 28, Rowe 31 (All are older than injury prone Phillips), McKay 21 (Really don't want him spending most of his time in the ruck)

IMO, we need to perhaps move on/trade/delist a couple of these guys and bring in a ruckman on the cheap in the 23-26 year old bracket. Some of the names that could be considered at other clubs, that might be obtainable

Scott Lycett 26 - FA that has shown is a more than capable ruckman, as well as adding value in the forward line, if someone like a McKay relieves him for periods in the game

Preuss 23 - Really like his size and agression, underrated ruckman and while not dominant as a forward, will at least bring the ball to ground, when resting forward. Minimal cost, such as a mid to late second

Darcy Cameron 23 - Capable as a ruckman and a forward, would also be a cheap option

Not suggesting this is an immediate need, but given the age/options/injury concerns of some on our list, I believe we should be planning for the transition of when someone like a TDK is ready to fill the breach. If we moved on, 2-3 of Levi, Rowe, Jones, Phillips and added one of the above players, it would reduce the talls on our list, while allowing for better coverage

I'm feeling really good about our spine/tall stocks for the future.

Weitering, Marchbank, Plowman down back. Jones & Macreadie as backups, Macreadie possibily to become our Tomlinson?
Kreuzer as #1 when fit but we've got Lobbe who I'm pretty happy with and should give us a really competent backup to MK for the next couple of seasons while TDK develops. Also like that Lobbe seems to have taken TDK under his wing and is mentoring him.
Charlie & Harry up forward. De Koning to spend some time there too over the next couple of seasons until he's ready to take the #1 ruck job. Kerr as a backup tall forward, or when we want to play taller up forward to exploit opposition defenders if we're that way inclined.

Cameron would be the 'cheap' ruck option I'd look at; with Sinclair & Naismith they've got decent ruck stocks there while North really has Preuss as the heir apparent to an aging Goldstein. Unfortunately I've really lost confidence in Phillips and his future position at the club.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I believe this position is known as the central left-right defensive flank.

Glad someone gets it!!!

 

[Faz 2000]

I think we simply must take the best mid/flanker at every pick we have this year, to fill out the list with options. The only exception would be if Lukosius is that damn good. As good as I'm sure the Kings may be, they are utterly not what we need now. Harry looks easily "good enough" and possibly a real weapon.

We had way more KPP talent on the park than the Dogs yesterday. More young KPP talent than most other teams in the comp, really. I'd be OK to "make do" with our rucks until we're really ready to compete, then buy one. It's a proven model.

 

[DangerousD]

They get desperately needed salary cap relief by moving him on this year and they would recieve a projected top 4 selection from us as opposed to a projected very late 1st rounder as FA compo.
Reckon Silvagni would be loathe to involve pick 1 this year but any PP would probably be negotiable if GWS were adamant about recieving 2018 picks.

Im going to have to disagree, they have a cap squeeze no doubt but not next season, all their good players are under contract. GWS lose one of their best players and don't get paid for 12 months only to gain a 6-8 draft pick advantage, i just don't see it happening.

 

[DangerousD]

I'd rather give our 2 seconds than our pick 1

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very unrealistic.

 

[Blue__Balls]

If we are looking at pure needs and priorities for our list, it is obvious that midfielders are the number one priority, this year and next. The other area that needs addressing/consideration for the medium term, is what we do with ruckmen

Start of next year we have these options:

Kreuzer 30- Talented, heart and soul player, but his body never gives you confidence
Lobbe 30 - Durable, solid and certainly seems highly regarded, could continue to add some value for a couple more years
Phillips 27 - Talented, probably best tap ruckman we have, but does little around the ground and has never been right body wise
TDK - 19 - Finally recruited a ruckman that will have an effect when resting forward, but will take 2-3 preseasons to build his body and core strength

Then we have the backups, that would only be used in case of injuries, Levi 28, Jones 28, Rowe 31 (All are older than injury prone Phillips), McKay 21 (Really don't want him spending most of his time in the ruck)

IMO, we need to perhaps move on/trade/delist a couple of these guys and bring in a ruckman on the cheap in the 23-26 year old bracket. Some of the names that could be considered at other clubs, that might be obtainable

Scott Lycett 26 - FA that has shown is a more than capable ruckman, as well as adding value in the forward line, if someone like a McKay relieves him for periods in the game

Preuss 23 - Really like his size and agression, underrated ruckman and while not dominant as a forward, will at least bring the ball to ground, when resting forward. Minimal cost, such as a mid to late second

Darcy Cameron 23 - Capable as a ruckman and a forward, would also be a cheap option

Not suggesting this is an immediate need, but given the age/options/injury concerns of some on our list, I believe we should be planning for the transition of when someone like a TDK is ready to fill the breach. If we moved on, 2-3 of Levi, Rowe, Jones, Phillips and added one of the above players, it would reduce the talls on our list, while allowing for better coverage

I'd be inclined to consider Lobbe as our primary ruck, Kreuzer only plays when 100% fit and is managed carefully (could only be 8-10 games played a year), TDK plays some forward/ruck time and could potentially shoulder the load for a game or two late next year. Then between Jones and Levi, we have a couple of "break glass in case of emergency" options.

Lobbe - 12 games
Kreuzer - 8 games
TDK - 10-15 games (forward/ruck relief)
Levi/Jones - <3 games

Big Lobbe has a few good years left, so by the time he's done TDK should be physically ready to play on ball.

I reckon the only reason we'd have to go after another ruck would be if Kreuzer isn't able to go on. Even then, I would be going for a Darcy Cameron or Archie Smith depth option rather than a Scott Lycett, comfortable that Lobbe should be able to put together 18+ games.

 

[Blues90]

very unrealistic.

I am aware just don't want to part with pick 1 lol

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[Stiffler's Dad]

I believe this position is known as the central left-right defensive flank.

A highly desirable position at that.
Not like the one I played in my day which was known as - left right out.

 

[Arr0w]

I'm feeling really good about our spine/tall stocks for the future.

Weitering, Marchbank, Plowman down back. Jones & Macreadie as backups, Macreadie possibily to become our Tomlinson?
Kreuzer as #1 when fit but we've got Lobbe who I'm pretty happy with and should give us a really competent backup to MK for the next couple of seasons while TDK develops. Also like that Lobbe seems to have taken TDK under his wing and is mentoring him.
Charlie & Harry up forward. De Koning to spend some time there too over the next couple of seasons until he's ready to take the #1 ruck job. Kerr as a backup tall forward, or when we want to play taller up forward to exploit opposition defenders if we're that way inclined.

Cameron would be the 'cheap' ruck option I'd look at; with Sinclair & Naismith they've got decent ruck stocks there while North really has Preuss as the heir apparent to an aging Goldstein. Unfortunately I've really lost confidence in Phillips and his future position at the club.

I'd be inclined to consider Lobbe as our primary ruck, Kreuzer only plays when 100% fit and is managed carefully (could only be 8-10 games played a year), TDK plays some forward/ruck time and could potentially shoulder the load for a game or two late next year. Then between Jones and Levi, we have a couple of "break glass in case of emergency" options.

Lobbe - 12 games
Kreuzer - 8 games
TDK - 10-15 games (forward/ruck relief)
Levi/Jones - <3 games

Big Lobbe has a few good years left, so by the time he's done TDK should be physically ready to play on ball.

I reckon the only reason we'd have to go after another ruck would be if Kreuzer isn't able to go on. Even then, I would be going for a Darcy Cameron or Archie Smith depth option rather than a Scott Lycett, comfortable that Lobbe should be able to put together 18+ games.

The only concerns I have is a lack of durability with our 3 ruckmen, even when TDK is ready, we all know that we need depth in this area.

Doesn't need to be top end quality, happy to have a Simpson, Mumford type bash and crash. Time will tell which option/direction we take

 

[HARKER]

Harry is the new prototype of the modern day forward.
Mobile,quick,can take a mark all over the ground and kick goals.
Charlie is the roaming CHF.
TDK is ruck/forward relief.
These talls are extremely hard to find hence why Sos went for them first.Build the spine then fill the gaps which we know are mids now.

Three mobile talls in the forward line are terrific, but without any small support, things will get difficult.
We currently don't have a small-mid player we can count on, playing in our forward half. Not one and there's no point citing LeBois here.

It's something that will require addressing after we've added a quality mid or two this year.

 

[Arr0w]

Three mobile talls in the forward line are terrific, but without any small support, things will get difficult.
We currently don't have a small-mid player we can count on, playing in our forward half. Not one and there's no point citing LeBois here.

It's something that will require addressing after we've added a quality mid or two this year.

If we add some quality mids, could you see the likes of Fisher, SPS, Dow spending more time there?

 

[Faz 2000]

A way forward here for our squad, as demonstrated by all the best teams in the league and the most highly-rated PLAYERS in the league right now, is to find some mid-fwd hybrid type players. It doesn't have to be all 35 possession guys, there's huge value in a player who can get 20-25 as a mid, but also can stay forward and potentially jag 2-3-4 goals. Caddy, De Goey, Dusty, Danger, etc etc. I'm not necessarily saying "superstar" level, but someone we have not drafted in a long long time is a genuine power player who has tricks. We've for ages preferred the rangey athletes.

 

[ESKIE]

Last 3 weeks have been pretty good considering injuries and players missing. Beat GCS and 3 good quarters against Freo away and Bulldogs at Etihad. Shows a group with character and playing for the coach. Need another good performance this week to finish off a tough year with confidence

Benefits of playing the young players this year is starting to show through. It will pay off. They still need time but I expect a much improved side in 2019. Get the injuries right, add some mature talent and a couple of talented draftees and 8-10 wins is very realistic

Exciting times ahead. Not only do we have a great bunch of young talent but a number could be elite.

Go Blues

They where up and about yesterday Energy was good

 

[Blue__Balls]

The only concerns I have is a lack of durability with our 3 ruckmen, even when TDK is ready, we all know that we need depth in this area.

Doesn't need to be top end quality, happy to have a Simpson, Mumford type bash and crash. Time will tell which option/direction we take

I feel ya, though I do think we'll have plenty of depth and flexibility to cover it.

Kreuzer plays when 100%.
When he's not, Lobbe plays.
If they're both out:
- Jones or Casboult to come up from the VFL to play ruck.
- Kerr to play FF and McKay to play ruck.
- TDK to play 50/50 ruck with McKay.
- Cripps to throw Polson at the ball.

There's some options there. Running a possible three tall forward set-up gives us coverage for in-game injuries too.

 

[Soapy V]

The only concerns I have is a lack of durability with our 3 ruckmen, even when TDK is ready, we all know that we need depth in this area.

Doesn't need to be top end quality, happy to have a Simpson, Mumford type bash and crash. Time will tell which option/direction we take

The question I have is can we afford to put on another ruck if we keep these ones? It's another space. I reckon we will go with Kruezer Lobbe Phillips Casboult Rowe & TDK next year. End of 2019 if when we need to chase a ruckman who is ready to step up. Pruess/Cameron types

 

[HARKER]

If we add some quality mids, could you see the likes of Fisher, SPS, Dow spending more time there?

True but still no real crumbing goal-kickers.

We really could do with a Breust-type and a dare I say it, Betts (the good one)-type. Easier said than done, I know.
I don't see any creative (offensively & defensively) small forwards with us right now and we'll need them if we persist with three talls up front.

We need the mids first and foremost, but we have to find oursleves some hard working smaller goal-kickers, also.

 

[Arr0w]

The question I have is can we afford to put on another ruck if we keep these ones? It's another space. I reckon we will go with Kruezer Lobbe Phillips Casboult Rowe & TDK next year. End of 2019 if when we need to chase a ruckman who is ready to step up. Pruess/Cameron types

No we can't put another ruck if we keep all our talls, absolutely not. As I said, we still have time, but would rather strike while value is low of other ruck options around the league

 

[Faz 2000]

The question I have is can we afford to put on another ruck if we keep these ones? It's another space. I reckon we will go with Kruezer Lobbe Phillips Casboult Rowe & TDK next year. End of 2019 if when we need to chase a ruckman who is ready to step up. Pruess/Cameron types

100% agree. Buy a ruck when we're serious about competing. In the meantime, spend all our tokens on bonafide midfielders and useful pieces around the ground. There's ALWAYS a ready to go ruck available at a modest price - picking off some team's second option. Eg. Lycett or Preuss this year. No need for US to do that this year, but in a few years' time we see what's out there and grab something.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Ruck isn't an immediate concern. We can always get one during next year's off season.