Analysis 2018 List Management discussion Pt 2

[Soapy V]

If we add some quality mids, could you see the likes of Fisher, SPS, Dow spending more time there?

Murphy & LeBois

 

[BluesRule]

A way forward here for our squad, as demonstrated by all the best teams in the league and the most highly-rated PLAYERS in the league right now, is to find some mid-fwd hybrid type players. It doesn't have to be all 35 possession guys, there's huge value in a player who can get 20-25 as a mid, but also can stay forward and potentially jag 2-3-4 goals. Caddy, De Goey, Dusty, Danger, etc etc. I'm not necessarily saying "superstar" level, but someone we have not drafted in a long long time is a genuine power player who has tricks. We've for ages preferred the rangey athletes.

Cripps looks great when we move him forward for a rest. Really hard match up just like Dusty. We need the best players available and it will sort itself out.

 

[Faz 2000]

Yeh, it's about midfielders with some other strings to their bow rotating through the forward line (or other positions on the ground). It's how the best teams do it.

 

[Coona Blues]

If we are looking at pure needs and priorities for our list, it is obvious that midfielders are the number one priority, this year and next. The other area that needs addressing/consideration for the medium term, is what we do with ruckmen

Start of next year we have these options:

Kreuzer 30- Talented, heart and soul player, but his body never gives you confidence
Lobbe 30 - Durable, solid and certainly seems highly regarded, could continue to add some value for a couple more years
Phillips 27 - Talented, probably best tap ruckman we have, but does little around the ground and has never been right body wise
TDK - 19 - Finally recruited a ruckman that will have an effect when resting forward, but will take 2-3 preseasons to build his body and core strength

Then we have the backups, that would only be used in case of injuries, Levi 28, Jones 28, Rowe 31 (All are older than injury prone Phillips), McKay 21 (Really don't want him spending most of his time in the ruck)

IMO, we need to perhaps move on/trade/delist a couple of these guys and bring in a ruckman on the cheap in the 23-26 year old bracket. Some of the names that could be considered at other clubs, that might be obtainable

Scott Lycett 26 - FA that has shown is a more than capable ruckman, as well as adding value in the forward line, if someone like a McKay relieves him for periods in the game

Preuss 23 - Really like his size and agression, underrated ruckman and while not dominant as a forward, will at least bring the ball to ground, when resting forward. Minimal cost, such as a mid to late second

Darcy Cameron 23 - Capable as a ruckman and a forward, would also be a cheap option

Not suggesting this is an immediate need, but given the age/options/injury concerns of some on our list, I believe we should be planning for the transition of when someone like a TDK is ready to fill the breach. If we moved on, 2-3 of Levi, Rowe, Jones, Phillips and added one of the above players, it would reduce the talls on our list, while allowing for better coverage

Given the profile of our list, any discussion on our medium-long term requirements is dependent on two factors
1. Long term prognosis from Kreuzer heart condition.
2. How long we maintain our depth KPP who are capable of a ruck chop out (Casboult, Rowe & Jones)

Let's assume the club is being transparent, and statement that the procedure was "normal/simple", and the likelihood
is complete resolution. If so, our need is much less urgent than for other "puzzle pieces".

Harry McKay has silenced any naysayers emphatically in recent weeks, and has gone past Casboult, with the
development of TDK creating the likelihood that he will also pass Cas in the pecking order during the preseason.
The presence of a very capable young back-up in Kerr, really suggests that Levi has done his job shouldering
the burden until classier options can be found.

Casboult and Phillips are both contracted for 2019, but clearly between them hold two list spots, when only one
will be required for back up. I would like to think some mature thought goes in to the career of Phillips, who remains
potentially an AFL quality tap ruckman, yet at 27 has had every year of his career punctuated significantly by soft
tissue injuries. In essence this impacts more than playing time, he has not developed the body or tank to fulfil his
potential. He was sent overseas in the off season/early season in an effort to right the issues, with obvious failure.
Barring an unlikely turn around, his time is surely up, and a termination deal would be best for all. This would leave
Levi a required member of the list. If Flipper stays, we should take a token pick to give Levi the option to move to a
club which may want mature insurance (likely Suns post Lynch...and maybe May). In the unlikely event both moved
on, we would require another back up ruck/pinch hitter...…...or perhaps that is Sam Rowe for a year.

We have to start culling some of our veterans in the near future. Murphy contracted, Simmo received public
commitment, and Daisy seems likely to be retained. ASOS is as good as gone, can't get on the park. The kids
developing and Jones makes the ageing , yet admirable, Rowe surplus, although would be excellent insurance to
keep around. If I were the list manager, he would be offered a rookie list spot (on above rookie coin) for a year
as triple back up and a mature teacher/leader in the twos. It would also romantically allow him the opportunity
to get to game 100, which he will be denied if delisted this year.

99% of us are certain Ben Silvagni will be signed with a late pick, and he would be excellent as a developing
swingman to complete our profile of tall depth/developing players (barring a ruck in a year or two).

I really rate Sam Collins as a mature option, but unless be plan to trade Jones any time soon, would be surplus.
Would be handy given Macreadie has had his development slowed by injury, but from the Collins perspective
he would be more likely to command an AFL spot elsewhere. I also have some doubt how he would co exist
with Weitering given their "knocks" both include pace.

 

[Stamos]

A way forward here for our squad, as demonstrated by all the best teams in the league and the most highly-rated PLAYERS in the league right now, is to find some mid-fwd hybrid type players. It doesn't have to be all 35 possession guys, there's huge value in a player who can get 20-25 as a mid, but also can stay forward and potentially jag 2-3-4 goals. Caddy, De Goey, Dusty, Danger, etc etc. I'm not necessarily saying "superstar" level, but someone we have not drafted in a long long time is a genuine power player who has tricks. We've for ages preferred the rangey athletes.

Fingers crossed that Cuningham can become this player. Has the speed and power, can slot them.

 

[Arr0w]

Given the profile of our list, any discussion on our medium-long term requirements is dependent on two factors
1. Long term prognosis from Kreuzer heart condition.
2. How long we maintain our depth KPP who are capable of a ruck chop out (Casboult, Rowe & Jones)

Let's assume the club is being transparent, and statement that the procedure was "normal/simple", and the likelihood
is complete resolution. If so, our need is much less urgent than for other "puzzle pieces".

Harry McKay has silenced any naysayers emphatically in recent weeks, and has gone past Casboult, with the
development of TDK creating the likelihood that he will also pass Cas in the pecking order during the preseason.
The presence of a very capable young back-up in Kerr, really suggests that Levi has done his job shouldering
the burden until classier options can be found.

Casboult and Phillips are both contracted for 2019, but clearly between them hold two list spots, when only one
will be required for back up. I would like to think some mature thought goes in to the career of Phillips, who remains
potentially an AFL quality tap ruckman, yet at 27 has had every year of his career punctuated significantly by soft
tissue injuries. In essence this impacts more than playing time, he has not developed the body or tank to fulfil his
potential. He was sent overseas in the off season/early season in an effort to right the issues, with obvious failure.
Barring an unlikely turn around, his time is surely up, and a termination deal would be best for all. This would leave
Levi a required member of the list. If Flipper stays, we should take a token pick to give Levi the option to move to a
club which may want mature insurance (likely Suns post Lynch...and maybe May). In the unlikely event both moved
on, we would require another back up ruck/pinch hitter...…...or perhaps that is Sam Rowe for a year.

We have to start culling some of our veterans in the near future. Murphy contracted, Simmo received public
commitment, and Daisy seems likely to be retained. ASOS is as good as gone, can't get on the park. The kids
developing and Jones makes the ageing , yet admirable, Rowe surplus, although would be excellent insurance to
keep around. If I were the list manager, he would be offered a rookie list spot (on above rookie coin) for a year
as triple back up and a mature teacher/leader in the twos. It would also romantically allow him the opportunity
to get to game 100, which he will be denied if delisted this year.

99% of us are certain Ben Silvagni will be signed with a late pick, and he would be excellent as a developing
swingman to complete our profile of tall depth/developing players (barring a ruck in a year or two).

I really rate Sam Collins as a mature option, but unless be plan to trade Jones any time soon, would be surplus.
Would be handy given Macreadie has had his development slowed by injury, but from the Collins perspective
he would be more likely to command an AFL spot elsewhere. I also have some doubt how he would co exist
with Weitering given their "knocks" both include pace.

Good post and don't disagree with any of your thoughts. We certainly have options to weigh up. I think Phillips is probably gone, given even a Levi could be a backup for injuries to ruckmen and forwards.

I have no doubt, that we will still have a suitable number of talls, I just see the names changing, like JGM to BSOS etc

 

[BluesRule]

If MS3 rumour is true that we are taking McGovern then we are clearly not drafting Lukosius.

If the rumour that we are getting a high draft pick perhaps after our first (#2?) but have to trade it is correct - then maybe PP trade for McGov and Adelaides first round pick.

Then we draft Walsh with #1 so Adelaide have a clear shot at one of Rankine or Lukosius.

 

[Big Red is back]

Speed, speed, speed, spread, run , run , run. I expect every selection to be a mid.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

If MS3 rumour is true that we are taking McGovern then we are clearly not drafting Lukosius.

If the rumour that we are getting a high draft pick perhaps after our first (#2?) but have to trade it is correct - then maybe PP trade for McGov and Adelaides first round pick.

Then we draft Walsh with #1 so Adelaide have a clear shot at one of Rankine or Lukosius.

That's a possibility, but #2 for McGovern + #10 is not a deal I can see us agreeing to. And it will be #10 because GC PP + our PP will push it back and the Crows will likely finish above the Bombers. Blakey Swans academy pick a chance to push it to #11 too. So #2 for #11 + McGovern puts McGovern at around pick #13-#14 mark. He's not worth that.

 

[Juddernaut08]

That's a possibility, but #2 for McGovern + #10 is not a deal I can see us agreeing to. And it will be #10 because GC PP + our PP will push it back and the Crows will likely finish above the Bombers. Blakey Swans academy pick a chance to push it to #11 too. So #2 for #11 + McGovern puts McGovern at around pick #13-#14 mark. He's not worth that.

100%. Why are we trading for a middle tier mature aged KPP?

We have McKay+Curnow in our forwardline

We have Weiterin+Marchbank in our backline

Will McGovern be surplus in the long run? At best I see him becoming cream...you don't give up a 1st round pick for him if he's not going to be a key pillar.

The only reason would be if it's the only way to get his better brother along (for free). If that's the case, come on down Jeremy!

 

[Blue_Fusion]

100%. Why are we trading for a middle tier mature aged KPP?

We have McKay+Curnow in our forwardline

We have Weiterin+Marchbank in our backline

Will McGovern be surplus in the long run? At best I see him becoming cream...you don't give up a 1st round pick for him if he's not going to be a key pillar.

The only reason would be if it's the only way to get his better brother along (for free). If that's the case, come on down Jeremy!

Jeremy won't be happening either:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-...-signs-with-west-coast-eagles-in-afl/10025898

Not sure what the plan is, maybe the thinking is that Charlie and McKay could do with some older support up there because Levi isn't up to it as the 3rd tall forward option.

In any case, it's not a real concern at the moment, we should be targeting 3 mids and 2 medium/small forwards imo.

 

[Faz 2000]

I think McGov is of interest because it really adds an interesting third string to the forward line. He's quick, applies good pressure, is a solid converter and can take a hanger. I think he's a good complimentary forward, and we already have the main course in Charlie and Harry.

HOWEVER.... I would not be even discussing pick 1 in any negotiations around McGov, unless he's the last piece of the other side of the deal. His value to me is somewhere in the second round.

 

[Stefchook]

If McGovern comes, it would certainly imply that SOJ's days as a 3rd forward are over.

 

[Juddernaut08]

I think McGov is of interest because it really adds an interesting third string to the forward line. He's quick, applies good pressure, is a solid converter and can take a hanger. I think he's a good complimentary forward, and we already have the main course in Charlie and Harry.

HOWEVER.... I would not be even discussing pick 1 in any negotiations around McGov, unless he's the last piece of the other side of the deal. His value to me is somewhere in the second round.

Too true. One of our seconds (give them there's back? lol) would be okay with me. But yes as BFusion said, we have much more pressing needs which we should be focusing on.

I'm still of the mind to spend all our draft picks, or if we're trading, trade draft picks to get more 1st rounders.

 

[Faz 2000]

If McGovern comes, it would certainly imply that SOJ's days as a 3rd forward are over.

I think SOJ has a loooooot of work to do to remain a regular AFL player. I sure hope he does it and finds his role. At the moment the glass half full "versatility" looks more like glass half empty "not good enough at anything" to my eyes. He definitely has the opportunity to do the physical work to get a lot stronger, fitter, faster, and I think he has to in order to remain an AFL option. He could yet blossom marvelously into a Jobe Watson or Jack Gunston or something. Right now McGov is miles ahead of him in that third tall fwd type spot.

 

[ferrisb]

I believe this position is known as the central left-right defensive flank.

I made my school footy team one year.

Sometimes I was played as a small forward, occasionally in the back pocket but mostly I was 'left right out'....

 

[Oily2]

I was chatting to a member of GWS's Executive today. Confirmed that GWS have some very serious salary cap issues and it's their opinion that Shiel + Setterfield will be out come seasons end.
Seems like either Essendon or Carlton are in the prime position to nab them - what would people be happy to see as a trade from us, while ensuring that we can't be outbid by Essendon (or any other team)?

 

[Blue Baggers]

Hearing Cerra is going to be bound by blue next season. Will take a first rounder unless he is part of a bigger trade but is a gun young mid.

 

[katmanblue]

Mids mids mids we need some ******* mids! Get it done sos

Yes. Let get Mitch McGovern.

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[Blue_Fusion]

Hearing Cerra is going to be bound by blue next season. Will take a first rounder unless he is part of a bigger trade but is a gun young mid.

Same source as your rumours from last year?

 

[katmanblue]

Trade our 2 x 2nd rounders to North or Sydney for their 1st rounder.
Take that 1st rounder along with any PP and our natural 1st rounder to the draft.
Throw the kitchen $ink at Shiel and use our 2019 1st rounder to pay.
With our natural pick 1 id take Walsh.
With the traded in (North/Sydney) 1st rounder and the PP id take another mid and a quality small forward.

Id go walsh, rankine, rozee with that strategy.

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[katmanblue]

So how do we go about developing TDK properly? Fully fit, Kreuzer would be ruck with Harry and Charlie in the forward line. Would we still play him as we did today week in week out or is that too tall? Then does TDK only cement his spot when Kreuzer retires...which could be at least a few years away.

Next year is a development year by my reckoning. So play him as much as possoble i reckon.

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[katmanblue]

Got say been really impressed with Harry McKay this year, think SOS has smashed this pick out of the park, was always going to be a high risk, high reward type and it’s starting to look like we’ve found our CHF.
Monster 204cm key forward, that moves like that and has the skills to go with it, kid could be unstoppable once he’s fully developed and we have a gun midfield.

I know we despritely need more A grade midfield talent, but imagine a forward line with Harry Charlie and Rankine and one of Lukosius Max King Ben King, very few opposition teams would be able to match up on that forward line, we would have some serious fire power.

Moves like a gazelle

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[reubsblues]

Lmao at rumours that will apparently happen in another 13 months

 

[katmanblue]

Given the profile of our list, any discussion on our medium-long term requirements is dependent on two factors
1. Long term prognosis from Kreuzer heart condition.
2. How long we maintain our depth KPP who are capable of a ruck chop out (Casboult, Rowe & Jones)

Let's assume the club is being transparent, and statement that the procedure was "normal/simple", and the likelihood
is complete resolution. If so, our need is much less urgent than for other "puzzle pieces".

Harry McKay has silenced any naysayers emphatically in recent weeks, and has gone past Casboult, with the
development of TDK creating the likelihood that he will also pass Cas in the pecking order during the preseason.
The presence of a very capable young back-up in Kerr, really suggests that Levi has done his job shouldering
the burden until classier options can be found.

Casboult and Phillips are both contracted for 2019, but clearly between them hold two list spots, when only one
will be required for back up. I would like to think some mature thought goes in to the career of Phillips, who remains
potentially an AFL quality tap ruckman, yet at 27 has had every year of his career punctuated significantly by soft
tissue injuries. In essence this impacts more than playing time, he has not developed the body or tank to fulfil his
potential. He was sent overseas in the off season/early season in an effort to right the issues, with obvious failure.
Barring an unlikely turn around, his time is surely up, and a termination deal would be best for all. This would leave
Levi a required member of the list. If Flipper stays, we should take a token pick to give Levi the option to move to a
club which may want mature insurance (likely Suns post Lynch...and maybe May). In the unlikely event both moved
on, we would require another back up ruck/pinch hitter...…...or perhaps that is Sam Rowe for a year.

We have to start culling some of our veterans in the near future. Murphy contracted, Simmo received public
commitment, and Daisy seems likely to be retained. ASOS is as good as gone, can't get on the park. The kids
developing and Jones makes the ageing , yet admirable, Rowe surplus, although would be excellent insurance to
keep around. If I were the list manager, he would be offered a rookie list spot (on above rookie coin) for a year
as triple back up and a mature teacher/leader in the twos. It would also romantically allow him the opportunity
to get to game 100, which he will be denied if delisted this year.

99% of us are certain Ben Silvagni will be signed with a late pick, and he would be excellent as a developing
swingman to complete our profile of tall depth/developing players (barring a ruck in a year or two).

I really rate Sam Collins as a mature option, but unless be plan to trade Jones any time soon, would be surplus.
Would be handy given Macreadie has had his development slowed by injury, but from the Collins perspective
he would be more likely to command an AFL spot elsewhere. I also have some doubt how he would co exist
with Weitering given their "knocks" both include pace.

Collins needs to be drafted so he doesnt really get a say

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