Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

[Bamboo Harvester]

We'll probably have to move on at least another 6-8 players at the end of the year to accommodate trades and draft picks, regardless of rookie promotions.

Pickett already gorn, Lobbe possibly retiring, Fas on thin ice...same with Lebois. No doubt there'll likely be a few hard luck stories. A few contracted players maybe feeling a little fortunate as well.

 

[F_therest]

We'll probably have to move on at least another 6-8 players at the end of the year to accommodate trades and draft picks, regardless of rookie promotions.

Pickett already gorn, Lobbe possibly retiring, Fas on thin ice...same with Lebois. No doubt there'll likely be a few hard luck stories. A few contracted players maybe feeling a little fortunate as well.

Looking at our OOC senior list, possibilities:

Pickett - gone
Simmo - retire
Lang - delisted
Garlett - delisted
Lobbe - delisted
Kerr - delisted/traded

Polson very lucky he has a contract until 2020...otherwise surely would be delisted.

So that would be 6.

Upgrade Gibbons
Draft 2 players
Bring in 3 mature aged players

 

[gbatman]

Could see us delisting contracted players like Polson. Polson's contract would be fairly low. If we have to pay it out to make up a list spot then we would. The likelihood that his contract and the contracts of others was frontloaded and is already paid out or close to it would be fairly high I would imagine.

I think the more deals we can get done for senior players the more we'll trim the list. It's going to come down to that in the end.

 

[DamianBis]

Could see us delisting contracted players like Polson. Polson's contract would be fairly low. If we have to pay it out to make up a list spot then we would. The likelihood that his contract and the contracts of others was frontloaded and is already paid out or close to it would be fairly high I would imagine..

I think you'd find it's actually hard to front load a cheap players contract.
If my contact value is 250k for 2 years im not taking 200 year one and 50 year 2 because that kills me from a tax perspective as well as ****s with cash flow. I imagine most rookies and young players aren't getting much more year 1vs year 2 of their contract.

Obviously if you're on 800k that conversation doesn't happen as you're well in the top tax bracket every year

On CPH1831 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[gbatman]

I think you'd find it's actually hard to front load a cheap players contract.
If my contact value is 250k for 2 years im not taking 200 year one and 50 year 2 because that kills me from a tax perspective as well as fu**s with cash flow. I imagine most rookies and young players aren't getting much more year 1vs year 2 of their contract.

Obviously if you're on 800k that conversation doesn't happen as you're well in the top tax bracket every year

On CPH1831 using BigFooty.com mobile app

I think it would depend, Polson for example would definitely not be on that but I know that is not the point. I think a player like that who is very frings is just happy to sure up their future a bit rather than be worrying about tax etc. Give the player the option of being delisted or signed to a 1 year contract or signing a two year contract and pay a bit of tax then a player like Polson would take the two year contract. I don't think player and manager would have anything over the club when negotiating a contract in this instance as it would be more about survival at this stage for him being a very fringe player. Player is going to pay the tax and try and use those two years to improve enough to stay in the AFL system and get a decent contract.

Front Loaded or not I don't think someone like Poloson is going over that 90-180K bracket too often. If the club goes full front loaded then he only goes over the bracket one of those years.

Polson, is probably on 100-120K. Gets paid 180K last year and 20-60K this year which we can probably cover if we wanted to write it off. I imagine we're doing a lot to make up our minimum TPP and this would not bother our cap paying an extra 20-60K.

I don't think we're going to have much trouble with this contract and it wouldn't surprise me if others are shifted around a bit.

 

[jooce8891]

Go and watch SPS, Fisher, LOB and Dow in their first games and then come back and see me.

I know Goddard tried to bury himself by kicking the ground twice, so he's gone too. Wait, no, that was his second game, we'll give him a pass.

Schumacher will be a good honest player for us.

sps and fishers first games were elite

 

[Broadside]

sps and fishers first games were elite

Kade Simpson, not so much.

 

[passmark]

Any interest in Bennell?

SEN reporting his injury issues are fixable and a Melb club is interested.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Any interest in Bennell?

SEN reporting his injury issues are fixable and a Melb club is interested.

Wouldn't have thought so, mainly for cultural reasons, think he has had too many incidents to be worth taking a punt on.

Been reading that Hawthorn is interested in Bennell.

 

[gbatman]

Players like Bennell have to go to clubs who have a lot of strong leadership and good culture. This is where we have to be to win the premiership.

Hawthorn have taken on players like this in the past and sometimes it came out as a win and sometimes it came out as a loss.

The question regarding Bennell is as much about whether he can be fixed and managed as it is about whether we are ready to take on such players.

IF we are to be good enough to go to the top we have to get to a point where we can take on players who are not perfect and squeaky clean. In fact I would go as far to say that it's hard to go all the way without carrying a few misfits.

Just depends how strong the majority of the list is in terms of maintaining and driving it's culture.

That's why building a strong culture and strong list is so important, not just so players are pushed by their peers to train and play hard but to be good citizens and to resist bad habits spreading within the playing group.

This is why we can't just keep saying no to players who have some or have had some off field issues. Going to come down to the clubs judgement.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I think you'd find it's actually hard to front load a cheap players contract.
If my contact value is 250k for 2 years im not taking 200 year one and 50 year 2 because that kills me from a tax perspective as well as fu**s with cash flow. I imagine most rookies and young players aren't getting much more year 1vs year 2 of their contract.

Obviously if you're on 800k that conversation doesn't happen as you're well in the top tax bracket every year

On CPH1831 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Seem to recall reading somewhere that the loading across different years is for salary cap purposes only, and the actual physical payments to the player can be paced evenly.

Even if that's not the case - sure, it messes with taxation and stuff a bit, but getting your contract front-ended opens up better opportunities for investing, particularly in real estate. Making those mortgage payments sooner wipes a heap of interest off.

 

[Opine]

2 Blues players mentioned in top 10 draft steals of 2019. SOS is a genius; again.

 

[F_therest]

I think you'd find it's actually hard to front load a cheap players contract.
If my contact value is 250k for 2 years im not taking 200 year one and 50 year 2 because that kills me from a tax perspective as well as fu**s with cash flow. I imagine most rookies and young players aren't getting much more year 1vs year 2 of their contract.

Obviously if you're on 800k that conversation doesn't happen as you're well in the top tax bracket every year

On CPH1831 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Has other potential benefits, like accruing interest, investing the money earlier to make money, buying property earlier before prices go up etc.

 

[F_therest]

Anyone know what's the go with Kerr?

I know he'll probably be delisted/traded end of this year, but didn't he get injured a while back? Hasn't been playing VFL team.
But he's not mentioned in the injury report.

 

[Kruezing]

Anyone know what's the go with Kerr?

I know he'll probably be delisted/traded end of this year, but didn't he get injured a while back? Hasn't been playing VFL team.
But he's not mentioned in the injury report.

Shoulder I think ... out for the rest of the season ? ...

 

[Stamos]

Anyone know what's the go with Kerr?

I know he'll probably be delisted/traded end of this year, but didn't he get injured a while back? Hasn't been playing VFL team.
But he's not mentioned in the injury report.

Shoulder surgery a week or 2 back. Done for the year.

 

[Aphrodite]

2 Blues players mentioned in top 10 draft steals of 2019. SOS is a genius; again.

10. Setters

4. Newman

Got him for a steal: The top 10 trade bargains from 2018

The big names stole all the headlines but which new recruits have proven the best value?

www.afl.com.au

 

[RoyalParade]

Looking at our OOC senior list, possibilities:

Pickett - gone
Simmo - retire
Lang - delisted
Garlett - delisted
Lobbe - delisted
Kerr - delisted/traded

Polson very lucky he has a contract until 2020...otherwise surely would be delisted.

So that would be 6.

Upgrade Gibbons
Draft 2 players
Bring in 3 mature aged players

Don't forget Cottrell has replaced doc and deluca has replaced Pickett. Therefore you need to add 2 more to the delist/trade column.

 

[Stamos]

Don't forget Cottrell has replaced doc and deluca has replaced Pickett. Therefore you need to add 2 more to the delist/trade column.

Nah, only 1 (Pickett).
We currently have 39 on the Senior List, 5 Cat A Rookies, 1 Cat B

 

[Opine]

10. Setters

4. Newman

Got him for a steal: The top 10 trade bargains from 2018

The big names stole all the headlines but which new recruits have proven the best value?

www.afl.com.au

Add Gibbo and Walsh to that haul, and, even taking into account the persisting need for a classy small forward, anyone who is critical of SOS's performance can be reasonably described as somewhat vexatious imo. SOS is clearly doing a good job.

 

[Red Bull]

From what we can gather, Coniglio Papley Martin Cameron and Butler might be in play.
All bar Martin appear pretty easily obtainable should they nominate they wish to come to Carlton.
Coniglio = FA
Papley & Cameron = Adelaide pick
Butler = 1 of our 2 3rd rounders
Wouldn’t want to give up our future 1st for Martin but don’t think a future 2nd is enough for him.
In any case, GC may well request a player/s in exchange, it’s a tricky one.

SPS Jones Plowman
Marchbank Weitering Docherty
Setterfield Cripps O’Brien
Cuningham Curnow Martin
McGovern McKay Papley

Kreuzer Coniglio Walsh

Silvagni Dow Fisher Stocker

 

[Opine]

From what we can gather, Coniglio Papley Martin Cameron and Butler might be in play.
All bar Martin appear pretty easily obtainable should they nominate they wish to come to Carlton.
Coniglio = FA
Papley & Cameron = Adelaide pick
Butler = 1 of our 2 3rd rounders
Wouldn’t want to give up our future 1st for Martin but don’t think a future 2nd is enough for him.
In any case, GC may well request a player/s in exchange, it’s a tricky one.

SPS Jones Plowman
Marchbank Weitering Docherty
Setterfield Cripps O’Brien
Cuningham Curnow Martin
McGovern McKay Papley

Kreuzer Coniglio Walsh

Silvagni Dow Fisher Stocker

No room for Murphy?

 

[Stamos]

From what we can gather, Coniglio Papley Martin Cameron and Butler might be in play.
All bar Martin appear pretty easily obtainable should they nominate they wish to come to Carlton.

Not sure how the contracted Papley would be easily obtainable while the uncontracted Martin would not be?

 

[Red Bull]

Not sure how the contracted Papley would be easily obtainable while the uncontracted Martin would not be?

Was just thinking in terms of satisfactory trades.
Re Papley, of course, if Sydney say no ... it’s no.

 

[Red Bull]

No room for Murphy?

I just put Murphy Curnow Simpson and Thomas to the side in this case for a better look into the future.
Some or all will still be onboard and no doubt playing next season.