Official Club Stuff 2019 St.Kilda Membership Thread (42,512 - 20/06/2019)

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Nutsngum

Premiership Player
Mar 14, 2013
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wow, so plugger was right!!! i have to apologise to him! sorry mate!

so where did Finnis get his "we are as big as richmond" thing from? i assume an outdated inaccurate poll?

EDIT: found it the poll is based off of 14,544 participants then expanded from there. so no wonder we see such large discrepancies, which pretty much makes the poll completely useless.
15,000 is a massive number of people to poll and as long as its tested for proper distribution should be really accurate.
 

George

Moderator
Aug 17, 2015
14,316
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And perhaps some closure on the great “Just how big is the Saints support base?” debate:

In 2018, St Kilda had a support base of 294,000 supporters and boasts 1 in 5 supporters in the Bayside region.

The numbers quoted are the Club’s.
(Ref: p9 of the Reconciliation Action Plan).

This is exactly the number quoted in the Roy Morgan research published in 2017:

http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/7345-roy-morgan-afl-supporter-ladder-2017-201709210118

We are a small club, any thought of reaching Richmond style membership numbers is total pipe dream stuff.

We are as big, or small, as Port Adelaide, North, Bulldogs and Melbourne.

(I was working separately on this issue, as plugger66 will attest. Pointless me continuing that work now. We have the answer).
Would love to know how they tallied up that figure. I think it's way off.
 

gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
23,626
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Well I’m pretty sure they get elections right off much smaller figures. That is a big figure to poll. Not sure there is any other way to do it.

Also get them wrong though too. If they called a cross section of the community and say they were in 6 different regions, that's less than 2500 people per region. Bayside obviously got a high percentage of the community as Saints but it's a very small sample size. I think the latent supporter base one was from a footy survey the Herald Sun did in the early 2000s. Again they mean bugger all unless they buy a membership. Win games and you attract new members and generally get a financial gain from it.
 

sunny3193

Club Legend
Sep 28, 2016
2,855
8,104
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Would love to know how they tallied up that figure. I think it's way off.
I have done a bit of work on this separately.
Unpublished now because there is no point.
The numbers the Club has quoted do “feel” right.
For example:
The Bayside area has a population of 780k (2016 Census).
One in five are Saints fans.
Or 20% are Saints fans = 160k
(This 20% might be a tad high given my lived experience but not enough for me to doubt it).
Meaning another 140k spread across the balance of the country.
Again, not unreasonable.

PS: I initially started the research for my own curiosity. Plus to build the historical record why we have a lower support base than the Collingwood’s of this world. Like you I thought our support base would be bigger.
 

Jughead77

Saints Tragic
Sep 25, 2017
438
2,998
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I have done a bit of work on this separately.
Unpublished now because there is no point.
The numbers the Club has quoted do “feel” right.
For example:
The Bayside area has a population of 780k (2016 Census).
One in five are Saints fans.
Or 20% are Saints fans = 160k
(This 20% might be a tad high given my lived experience but not enough for me to doubt it).
Meaning another 140k spread across the balance of the country.
Again, not unreasonable.

PS: I initially started the research for my own curiosity. Plus to build the historical record why we have a lower support base than the Collingwood’s of this world. Like you I thought our support base would be bigger.
When i got here in 1990, i saw it as, Collingwood had the Greek migrants, Carlton the Italians, Essendon a mixture of all(now indians). Hawks were successful and marketed as the family club, Richmond had their base from all their years of success.

The perception i had of our supporters has always been majority anglo, blonde hair blue eyes type. Its probably cos anytime you mentioned St Kilda first thing that came to mind was Trevor Barker. How many of the greek community in melb support us? 1%? If that. Italians community? Dont reckon there's many there either.

In all my years attending saints games ive only ever seen one other asian dude with our colours on. And i recruited him too. Somehow migrants from Asia in the 80s and 90s never embraced us. Tbf in those days not many embraced the sport seriously like i did. For those that did it was always Carlton, Hawthorn, Essendon. Not surprisingly the 3 most succesful in that time.

Today our supporters by and large are still made up of those same demographic types from 30 yrs ago. Its hard to grow and attract new fans if you fail perpetually and never win anything. Still, i hope the club is more proactive in engaging with new migrant communites, there's a lot they can do to build goodwill. There was never any such programs in my day, if there were you'd be seeing a lot more diversity in our membership today.
 

Saint Watto

Premium Platinum
Oct 24, 2016
4,515
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so where did Finnis get his "we are as big as richmond" thing from? i assume an outdated inaccurate poll?
I wondered the same thing......I've heard Matt Finnis say several times over the last 4 years that AFL data shows that our supporter base is 10 % less than Richmonds.
 

George

Moderator
Aug 17, 2015
14,316
45,464
Victoria
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I have done a bit of work on this separately.
Unpublished now because there is no point.
The numbers the Club has quoted do “feel” right.
For example:
The Bayside area has a population of 780k (2016 Census).
One in five are Saints fans.
Or 20% are Saints fans = 160k
(This 20% might be a tad high given my lived experience but not enough for me to doubt it).
Meaning another 140k spread across the balance of the country.
Again, not unreasonable.

PS: I initially started the research for my own curiosity. Plus to build the historical record why we have a lower support base than the Collingwood’s of this world. Like you I thought our support base would be bigger.
It's just odd because the figures I saw in 2015 didn't reflect that at all. It was around 480,000 which was similar to the Tigers.

The Angels, St Kilda women’s group fundraisers to purchase memberships for those who can’t afford it. Last year they purchased 220.
Yep, if you remember we tried to run a donation on here a couple of years ago with people chipping in money that would go to the club to help with buying less fortunate people a membership. They also cook for the players too. Fantastic women.
 

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sunny3193

Club Legend
Sep 28, 2016
2,855
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It's just odd because the figures I saw in 2015 didn't reflect that at all. It was around 480,000 which was similar to the Tigers.
And if you look at the Roy Morgan data from 2011/2012 no1saint66 posted above, it basically says the same thing (444k in 2011).
I think we ultimately have to go with the published data by the Club until/when new information is made available.
 

sunny3193

Club Legend
Sep 28, 2016
2,855
8,104
AFL Club
St Kilda
When i got here in 1990, i saw it as, Collingwood had the Greek migrants, Carlton the Italians, Essendon a mixture of all(now indians). Hawks were successful and marketed as the family club, Richmond had their base from all their years of success.

The perception i had of our supporters has always been majority anglo, blonde hair blue eyes type. Its probably cos anytime you mentioned St Kilda first thing that came to mind was Trevor Barker. How many of the greek community in melb support us? 1%? If that. Italians community? Dont reckon there's many there either.

In all my years attending saints games ive only ever seen one other asian dude with our colours on. And i recruited him too. Somehow migrants from Asia in the 80s and 90s never embraced us. Tbf in those days not many embraced the sport seriously like i did. For those that did it was always Carlton, Hawthorn, Essendon. Not surprisingly the 3 most succesful in that time.

Today our supporters by and large are still made up of those same demographic types from 30 yrs ago. Its hard to grow and attract new fans if you fail perpetually and never win anything. Still, i hope the club is more proactive in engaging with new migrant communites, there's a lot they can do to build goodwill. There was never any such programs in my day, if there were you'd be seeing a lot more diversity in our membership today.
Yes, I can see that.
And we hope that is where they are heading.
But there is more to the story than the last 30 years or so.
In fact, I would argue that St Kilda never stood a chance of gathering the same degree of support as the Collingwood's of this world.
And that goes right back to the establishment of Australian Rules Football in this city in the mid to late 1800's, the demographic nature of Melbourne then, combined with the restricted mobility of the population in those days.
We were last in the race then, and only slightly better now.
 

George

Moderator
Aug 17, 2015
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And if you look at the Roy Morgan data from 2011/2012 no1saint66 posted above, it basically says the same thing (444k in 2011).
I think we ultimately have to go with the published data by the Club until/when new information is made available.
So we lost 300,000 supporters in 6-7 years?
 

VDS66

Brownlow Medallist
Suspended
Oct 4, 2011
18,876
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Yes, I can see that.
And we hope that is where they are heading.
But there is more to the story than the last 30 years or so.
In fact, I would argue that St Kilda never stood a chance of gathering the same degree of support as the Collingwood's of this world.
And that goes right back to the establishment of Australian Rules Football in this city in the mid to late 1800's, the demographic nature of Melbourne then, combined with the restricted mobility of the population in those days.
We were last in the race then, and only slightly better now.
It was very tribal back then with everyone supporting their local club.

Footscray lost it's identity once the blue collar Aussies moved on and the Vietnamese moved in.

Same with North.

Fitzroy lost it's soul when it became nomad.

Melbourne also, and given the demographic shift in the city and surrounds, they will struggle.

I think for us the move to Waverly hurt us as did Seaford.

Now we are back at Moorabbin, we can start to rebuild that base.
 

Jughead77

Saints Tragic
Sep 25, 2017
438
2,998
AFL Club
St Kilda
Yes, I can see that.
And we hope that is where they are heading.
But there is more to the story than the last 30 years or so.
In fact, I would argue that St Kilda never stood a chance of gathering the same degree of support as the Collingwood's of this world.
And that goes right back to the establishment of Australian Rules Football in this city in the mid to late 1800's, the demographic nature of Melbourne then, combined with the restricted mobility of the population in those days.
We were last in the race then, and only slightly better now.
Yup agree there. One other thing i forgot to mention earlier, we seem to have a few Jewish supporters, more in proportion than any of our other minorities i think.

But just on our recent history, it still frustrates me that we failed to capitalise on our years of competitiveness this century. After that sellout match in 04 against Brisbane, 52k there(45k saints), i genuinely thought our latent fan base were back. No way the dogs or north could get that type of crowd even with the same formline.

So what happened? Ultimately the majority of fault lies in our failure to win a flag. But an often overlooked fact is just how badly our pr was during that time. Scandal after scandal after scandal. Silly stuff that tarnished our name. It also didnt help matters the way GT and Ross dealt with the press. Looking on from overseas, the club just looked entitled, arrogant, disrespectful, amongst other things. Heck even i let my membership lag in some of those years. It was just very hard to feel a connection or affinity during a large part of that time. So yeah if i was to sum up this century for us both on and off field, id say, Wasted Opportunities.
 

sammm

Premium Gold
Nov 15, 2000
6,745
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heidelberg
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It was very tribal back then with everyone supporting their local club.

Footscray lost it's identity once the blue collar Aussies moved on and the Vietnamese moved in.

Same with North.

Fitzroy lost it's soul when it became nomad.

Melbourne also, and given the demographic shift in the city and surrounds, they will struggle.

I think for us the move to Waverly hurt us as did Seaford.

Now we are back at Moorabbin, we can start to rebuild that base.
except that hawthorn is moving to dingley
 

StCicatriz

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 3, 2016
15,502
28,392
AFL Club
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15,000 is a massive number of people to poll and as long as its tested for proper distribution should be really accurate.
then how do you explain the massive discrepancy between two different polls? 15k people extrapolated out to literally millions will never be accurate.
 

StCicatriz

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 3, 2016
15,502
28,392
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So we lost 300,000 supporters in 6-7 years?
spot on. i think it shows how flawed the poll really is. they're taking a small sample, which i do get by survey standards is large, then estimating a supporter base into the millions. so even the smallest % in error or bias is going to have some pretty decent swings. which is what i think we are seeing.

i do not believe Finnis is the type to make something up. he must have had a reliable source for his claim.

the fact sydney swans is on top points to the fact the majority of their polling was done in NSW
 

George

Moderator
Aug 17, 2015
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150,000.
Speak to the club.
Maybe Morgan’s polling was aberrant.
spot on. i think it shows how flawed the poll really is. they're taking a small sample, which i do get by survey standards is large, then estimating a supporter base into the millions. so even the smallest % in error or bias is going to have some pretty decent swings. which is what i think we are seeing.

i do not believe Finnis is the type to make something up. he must have had a reliable source for his claim.

the fact sydney swans is on top points to the fact the majority of their polling was done in NSW
Yeah sorry 150,000. Yeah I'll see what the club says. It looks way, way off.
 

Jughead77

Saints Tragic
Sep 25, 2017
438
2,998
AFL Club
St Kilda
then how do you explain the massive discrepancy between two different polls? 15k people extrapolated out to literally millions will never be accurate.
Something wrong somewhere, 15k ppl is 5-10 times the normal sample size of polls. 150k differential gives them a margin of error close to 50%. Usually anything worse than +/- 5% margin and you'll lose all credibility. Very strange.
 

gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
23,626
50,573
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
When i got here in 1990, i saw it as, Collingwood had the Greek migrants, Carlton the Italians, Essendon a mixture of all(now indians). Hawks were successful and marketed as the family club, Richmond had their base from all their years of success.

The perception i had of our supporters has always been majority anglo, blonde hair blue eyes type. Its probably cos anytime you mentioned St Kilda first thing that came to mind was Trevor Barker. How many of the greek community in melb support us? 1%? If that. Italians community? Dont reckon there's many there either.

In all my years attending saints games ive only ever seen one other asian dude with our colours on. And i recruited him too. Somehow migrants from Asia in the 80s and 90s never embraced us. Tbf in those days not many embraced the sport seriously like i did. For those that did it was always Carlton, Hawthorn, Essendon. Not surprisingly the 3 most succesful in that time.

Today our supporters by and large are still made up of those same demographic types from 30 yrs ago. Its hard to grow and attract new fans if you fail perpetually and never win anything. Still, i hope the club is more proactive in engaging with new migrant communites, there's a lot they can do to build goodwill. There was never any such programs in my day, if there were you'd be seeing a lot more diversity in our membership today.

We seemed to have the Jewish community split between us and Carlton and the Catholics were over represented as St Kilda fans. We have a decent SriLankan following from around Bentleigh where they settled in the 80s.
 
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