Academy 2020 Father/Son, NGA and Academy Prospects - The Compromised Draft

[eDPS]

Going around in circles here, I suggest you both leave it there

 

[MarcLocksCrustySock]

Drain my ass.

Excuse me?

James Brayshaw IQ = 4

 

[Yoda_]

The thing that bothers most is that these academies (both NGA & whatever else) is that it focuses on the top kids, not many of the mid tier ones are given an opportunity if they are borderline.

Perhaps offering the opportunity for each club to select one, possibly even two kids outside the cap would offer more opportunities for these borderline kids, many of which go undrafted.

I understand something similar is in place but perhaps all clubs can be given open slather on all undrafted academy kids.

 

[liz]

The thing that bothers most is that these academies (both NGA & whatever else) is that it focuses on the top kids, not many of the mid tier ones are given an opportunity if they are borderline.

Perhaps offering the opportunity for each club to select one, possibly even two kids outside the cap would offer more opportunities for these borderline kids, many of which go undrafted.

I understand something similar is in place but perhaps all clubs can be given open slather on all undrafted academy kids.

Isn’t that already in place? Academy players (NGA and Northern) who get past the ND can be taken as Cat B rookies, meaning they are competing with players from fewer other sources for a list spot. And rookie salaries are outside the cap.

 

[kreglze]

The thing that bothers most is that these academies (both NGA & whatever else) is that it focuses on the top kids, not many of the mid tier ones are given an opportunity if they are borderline.

Perhaps offering the opportunity for each club to select one, possibly even two kids outside the cap would offer more opportunities for these borderline kids, many of which go undrafted.

I understand something similar is in place but perhaps all clubs can be given open slather on all undrafted academy kids.

I feel like the Suns chock our list full of middle - low tier academy kids at the moment, whether that is senior or rookie list, looking at the players on our list now, probably explains our lack of progress over the past few years, but we have really put a focus on developing local talent.

Jack Bowes
Jesse Joyce
Jacob Heron
Patrick Murtargh
Jacob Dawson
Caleb Graham
Matthew Conroy
Connor Budarick
Lachie Weller* (Was in our academy, but wasn't there long enough to qualify for us).

We also have Alex Davies coming through this year who is a top 10 pick in some peoples eyes.

I know Brisbane have had a fair few of their academy selections have been picked up by other clubs as well.

The whole point of Academies is to increase the draft pool and they seem to be doing that for the time being.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

We also have Alex Davies coming through this year who is a top 10 pick in some peoples eyes.

And Austin Harris for next year.

 

[Wayne Swan]

the logic of why should northern afl clubs invest in the region unless they have priority access to the kids is shortsighted, moronic and wrong.

if you accept the problem is that you need to promote the game at grass roots and foster the develop of upcoming kids then the solution is to develop the grassroots and foster the upcoming kids.

An academy where a team like Sydney is looking to identify and target and develop the top 1% is only one way to do it and I think it’s the trickle down economics version. Sure it will grow the game by a couple of players, but it doesn’t place an onus on Sydney to develop grass roots. It purely becomes a secondary goal. Their goal under that system is to find and develop a nick blakey, not grow the game in their backyard.

also how the fu** do you propose that the neafl doesn’t have the coaches or resources. Afl Football has been in Sydney for decades now. If the neafl is a failure then dozens of people should be sacked and questions answered. If the neafl can’t be run competently to survive with council grants and government grants then the Sydney teams and the afl need to contribute more to it. How much money do you think the sanfl has? Can you name the sanfls league sponsor? I can’t. Do they have one? I guess they do but stuffed if I know who. The sanfls not exactly flush, most teams are barely afloat with pokie money, council or government grants, and port and crows Have been their biggest contributors the past 20 years.


So yes there is teams who need to develop their region. We all agree on that.

but I reject the idea that academies are the best most effective way to do it.

the uneven mess of different sets of rules and inconsistent fu**up we have now with academies and ngas is surely not the best we can do.

SANFL sold their old "Footy Park" precinct to developers for $100 mill, they are f'ing flush with money!

NEAFL clubs run on shoestring budgets and volunteers

 

[briztoon]

The thing that bothers most is that these academies (both NGA & whatever else) is that it focuses on the top kids, not many of the mid tier ones are given an opportunity if they are borderline.

Perhaps offering the opportunity for each club to select one, possibly even two kids outside the cap would offer more opportunities for these borderline kids, many of which go undrafted.

I understand something similar is in place but perhaps all clubs can be given open slather on all undrafted academy kids.

Can you explain the bolder further please.

I’m not sure I understand why Academies should focus on mid tier kids more, or offer them a list spot.

The Victorian borderline kids from the NAB league don’t receive such an opportunity, why should Academy kids be different?

It’s not like you can sign an unlimited number of Cat B rookies on to the rookie list.

Every club has a maximum of 6 available rookie list spots. 4 Cat A rookies and 2 Cat B rookies. A club can have 3 Cat B rookies, but loses a Cat A spot in such a scenario.

So clubs still need available rookie spots at the draft to add these kids to their list.


I don’t know about NGA academies, but our Northern Academy age group numbers are usually pretty large, and on par with a NAB League squad.

No point not having enough kids to not be able to fill out a team.

Also there is usually a marked drop off in talent from the top couple of kids to the middle tier kids in our academies.

Finally, for the Northern clubs, we’ve been allowed to have a small number U19 Academy kids for a couple of years now. These are usually the top kids from our academies that didn’t get drafted in their top age year.

Not every undrafted kid offered an U19 position accepts it.

We saw Keidean Coleman drafted as a 19 year old to the Lions just last draft, after missing out in his U18 draft year.

 

[briztoon]

Here’s the Northern clubs U19 academy kids this year.

The system has been renamed to align with changes made by the NEAFL.

AFL club NEAFL lists announced

www.neafl.com.au

 

[philthy05]

SANFL sold their old "Footy Park" precinct to developers for $100 mill, they are f'ing flush with money!

NEAFL clubs run on shoestring budgets and volunteers

and that’s money the sanfl received pretty recently. Crows and port funded them for decades to produce great SA players who went to Victoria for more money. also that footy park sale comes off the back of port and the crows work as well.

As for the neafl arguing that they don’t have the budget to run is an argument that they’re under-refunded and under resourced.

Academies model while it might achieve certain results and address certain issues does not remotely change that issue. Those clubs or league will still be under-funded or under-resourced.

if Academy hubs fill in those gaps, only as long as the clubs continue to get the privileges of first rights to players its incentive based and I view that as a bandaid fix.

if you cancelled academies tomorrow would the clubs and neafl be markably better in those areas you’ve identified as a problem?

as I’ve said before, it’s my opinion that academies aren’t so much the solution to that problem so much as an incentive.

academies are great if you want to develop and get a few home town guns. It’s great to address the inequitable hometown / interstate player balance.

If someone was here telling us that was the reason for academies few would argue against it. Instead we’re always given these grand notions of philanthropy in the name of areas that are targeted for the league because of population size and wealth but also don’t have enough people resources and money to coach kids. Like signing nick Blakey is going to change anything other than make Sydney more competitive

 

[RedmanWasHere]

briztoon.

Tell me the name "Bae"ain't legit.

And, apart from Coleman, Michael, Crozier and McFadyen, who are the other likely types?

Tahj Abberley strikes me as a name I should focus on.

 

[briztoon]

briztoon.

Tell me the name "Bae"ain't legit.

And, apart from Coleman, Michael, Crozier and McFadyen, who are the other likely types?

Tahj Abberley strikes me as a name I should focus on.

Not a big fan of the U18 talent in the Academy this year, in my view the quality drops off pretty sharply after the top 4-5 and the talls definitely aren't strong. However, there are a few 18 yo's I rate who did not get a crack last year but will hopefully get a game this year such as John Baker and Kirk McGrory (injured in 2018).

I quite like this year's U17's from a purely talent perspective even though many are a bit under-sized at the moment - keep your eye out for guys like Lochy Harrop, Noah McFadyen, and James Packer (all of whom will probably play each week) plus some lesser-knowns like Kuot Thok, Dan Lanthois, Sam Winterbottom and Reed Maskell-Dobbin.

I think the Academy team will really struggle this year, but having said all that I'll be happy to see both the team and anyone I don't personally rate at the moment prove me wrong.

 

[briztoon]

and that’s money the sanfl received pretty recently. Crows and port funded them for decades to produce great SA players who went to Victoria for more money. also that footy park sale comes off the back of port and the crows work as well.

As for the neafl arguing that they don’t have the budget to run is an argument that they’re under-refunded and under resourced.

Academies model while it might achieve certain results and address certain issues does not remotely change that issue. Those clubs or league will still be under-funded or under-resourced.

if Academy hubs fill in those gaps, only as long as the clubs continue to get the privileges of first rights to players its incentive based and I view that as a bandaid fix.

if you cancelled academies tomorrow would the clubs and neafl be markably better in those areas you’ve identified as a problem?

as I’ve said before, it’s my opinion that academies aren’t so much the solution to that problem so much as an incentive.

academies are great if you want to develop and get a few home town guns. It’s great to address the inequitable hometown / interstate player balance.

If someone was here telling us that was the reason for academies few would argue against it. Instead we’re always given these grand notions of philanthropy in the name of areas that are targeted for the league because of population size and wealth but also don’t have enough people resources and money to coach kids. Like signing nick Blakey is going to change anything other than make Sydney more competitive

 

[Puregold]

I didn’t say there are no clubs. I said there are no NEAFL or QAFL clubs, which are the two highest levels of amateur competitions up here.

Obviously there are some level of amateur junior or senior clubs.

We don’t have a state wide competition like the SANFL or WAFL. Nor is AFL played in every public and private school. Certainly boys from the bush can’t get a scholarship to a private school to play footy.

Before GC and the Lions started setting up regional hubs, there was no structured pathway for elite kids to progress beyond their local clubs. Certainly not outside of Brisbane or the Gold Coast.


AFLQ isn’t flushed with funds, so never had the resources to set up a proper pathway for elite kids outside the major metropolitan areas either.

As I’ve repeatedly said, you have no idea what the situation up here was like before the academies or now.

WAFL definitely not state wide. All within 100kms of each other and only Peel more than 30kms from Perth.
Each WAFL club has a development zone outside of the metro area though.

 

[eastfreo75]

well look for instance Essendon, Dodoro placed a Bid on that " Kaiden Coleman " but its supposed to only go for 5min till the NGA Team loses that player to the bidder, but funny how the AFL paused that. but as i said, the NGA system is utter BS. Essendon placed a Bid on that Mozzie kid yet he was Hawthorns NGA. the NGA system is a Joke. you can try as much as you like to convince me otherwise

The AFL extended the time due to them deciding if the trades while within the spirit and letter of the trade laws.

All first round bids have been matched.

Apart from Dunkley which had a agreement with the Swans not to match Victorian club bids, all unmatched bids came after pick 36.

 

[Mt Isa Mustang]

The thing that bothers most is that these academies (both NGA & whatever else) is that it focuses on the top kids, not many of the mid tier ones are given an opportunity if they are borderline.

Perhaps offering the opportunity for each club to select one, possibly even two kids outside the cap would offer more opportunities for these borderline kids, many of which go undrafted.

I understand something similar is in place but perhaps all clubs can be given open slather on all undrafted academy kids.

A lot of the academy value would have to be outside those that make the AFL

- improving the 2-20th best players in each draft year that don't get drafted, building a stronger second and third tier competition in QLD, and hopefully some of those kids go back to their home towns in non-AFL areas and improve the local competitions.
- giving athletic, skilled kids an incentive to take up AFL if there is a pathway they can follow. See Kwaby Boakye profile. He didn't make the AFL but had a few years with the suns and is Ghanain, from Rockhampton. Almost zero chance he has a shot at becoming an AFL player without academy pathways. Now playing with Southport.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

AFL to phase out NGA access within the first round or two, after this year: https://www.afl.com.au/news/493041

Good move - scouting top prospects' parentage is a rort.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Is it an Eddie Everywhere mandated rule?

 

[Toadvine]

AFL to phase out NGA access within the first round or two, after this year: https://www.afl.com.au/news/493041

Good move - scouting top prospects' parentage is a rort.

So... After a handful of clubs are given priority access to first round talent they are then going to move away from other clubs being given the same benifit?

I agree that it should be phased out but every club should have the right to claim one in the first round so that every club would get to claim equal benifit.

 

[Cleric]

AFL to phase out NGA access within the first round or two, after this year: https://www.afl.com.au/news/493041

Good move - scouting top prospects' parentage is a rort.

If its not also done for the Northern states, then it's typical AFL running things on the fly.

 

[Lach72]

Kids already in the academies should be exempt

 

[PMBangers]

Clubs are pushing to have kids already signed up (15+ year olds) exempt from the change

 

[Virgin Dog]

So... After a handful of clubs are given priority access to first round talent they are then going to move away from other clubs being given the same benifit?

I agree that it should be phased out but every club should have the right to claim one in the first round so that every club would get to claim equal benifit.

Dangerous path to go down, where does it stop? Some clubs have received more FS picks than others, do we balance that out? Do we also include the northern academies? What about clubs who have received priority picks in the past?

This whole academy situation has been a joke from the start, but we can't fixate on trying to even the ledger. Just put a stop to it ASAP.

Then the AFL can move on to fixing the FS system, which is arguably even less fair.

 

[Toadvine]

Dangerous path to go down, where does it stop? Some clubs have received more FS picks than others, do we balance that out? Do we also include the northern academies? What about clubs who have received priority picks in the past?

This whole academy situation has been a joke from the start, but we can't fixate on trying to even the ledger. Just put a stop to it ASAP.

Then the AFL can move on to fixing the FS system, which is arguably even less fair.

Not sure why it would be so difficult? No clubs are denied access to first round talent F/S picks if players are eligible. Which would become the case under the proposed changes in the article.

The issue with NGA seems to be the frequency of players qualifying. So if that's the case why not allow every club the ability to pick one NGA prospect that qualifies as a first round talent and make the teams who have already had that benifit exempt?

It's crazy to me that a club could be handed a top 2 pick this upcoming draft and then the AFL will take away the opportunity for so many other clubs to receive the same benifit.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Is it so hard for the clowns running the AFL to just get the programs and incentives right the first time around? They're on incredibly good coin and yet they haven't been competent enough to think their initiatives through. The issues with academy players becoming high draft picks were obvious right from the start, but it took one of them becoming the #1 prospect for the AFL to actually realise the consequences. Much like the bid matching rules, they just make it up as they go along, and a few years down the track it becomes clear they've ballsed it up again.