List Mgmt. 2020 List Management II

[RAPPA]

All this talk about Betts going on. For those saying he should retire, at present the club has no small forward that even comes close to his output (albeit, it has been waning in the past 2 months). It’s not as if the have a Dan Butler or Papley waiting in the wings

 

[Pablito]

59% in 2018, 84% in 2019 and 94% on the ladder in 2020. The improvement is there overall.
I still worry about some of our younger guys who we expected to contribute more and didn't (including missing through injury) though. Dow, LOB, JSOS, Marchbank, C.Curnow, Fisher, Cunningham, Stocker. That's a pretty good list of young players who for a variety of reasons didn't develop enough in our best 22.

This year we can tick off the on field development of youngsters such as McKay, Setterfield, TDK, Walsh, Weiters, Williamson and to lesser extents SPS and Cottrell. For me the list is too short.

We also still rely on too many older guys going into next year. I think you can give a pass to Jones and E.Curnow, but Murphy, Casbolt, Betts should not be walk up starts in 2021.

In short, the young talent is there, we just need to play and develop them, sprinkle a couple high end talents into the squad through Trade/FA and we're a top 8 side.

 

[The Grover]

I suspect we may have our answer on Cuningham albeit that he didn't get an extended run at it. Goes missing far too often, wasting his very significant talent and the question is whether that can or will change. May need the shock of being delisted to wake up to himself, might never do. If the club believe that they can get near his best then he stays, otherwise must at least be in danger.

SPS should have been given more time in midfield when he was struggling down back but I get the desire for a settled back 7 and to be fair that was one of the silver linings of our year that our defence stood up as well as it did and a lot of that comes down to the settled unit.

As or Dow again didn't get the run at it we'd have hoped but didn't go close to impressing with the chances he had and I think there is a lot to glean from Diesel coming out publicly and saying he needs to toughen up. Fix that and get him to steady a bit before kicking and we have a good one on our hands. That is partly his fault but also says a lot about our development abilities. Okay this year was impacted by COVID and it was hard to work on development but those issues needed to be addressed earlier and yet don't seem to have been, at least not to any appreciable result.

Cuningham does go missing as a Forward.

Not proven it’s the same in midfield.

Was it 1 game 28 disposals v bombers.

I will say bombers probably have the least contested midfield in Afl.

However would’ve been handy to see him tested and developed more often.

Seems Teague waited until final round to try some positional moves eg Gov defence, Willo wing

 

[Cripptonite]

Not saying the decision to renew Betts is a good one, but I think we have to consider the extenuating circumstances.

1) Fills a temporary area of desperate need. We need to pickup or develop some quality small forwards. Honey and Zac Fisher hopefully can develop nicely and we probably need to acquire another option (Bailey Fritsch anyone? apparently he’s out of contract this year)

2) I’m assuming he will provide a genuine attraction to the club for trade/FA targets in particular indigenous players (Zac Williams etc)

Simmo on the other hand whilst performing better, he plays in an area where we have Newman and Marchbank coming back, Zac Williams and/or Saad to join, Kemp and Stocker may play in defence at times.

I’m torn on Saad, would like him on face value but he’s not worth our pick 7 and Dodo will want the world for him.

 

[Chookaradley]

All this talk about Betts going on. For those saying he should retire, at present the club has no small forward that even comes close to his output

What output?. He has been almost invisible in the second half of the year. He has been on the decline since his final year at Adelaide. Id rather invest time in someone like Honey that carry around Eddie for another year.

 

[I AM CARLTON]

I would delist McGovern he doesn't get involved enough in games and has zero intensity. At his age he should be a consistent performer he isn't so needs to go.

I would also delist Casboult dont think you can play Pittonet, DeKoning and Casboult in same team and I would rather the club keeps playing DeKoning and Pittonet than Casboult.

 

[RAPPA]

59% in 2018, 84% in 2019 and 94% on the ladder in 2020. The improvement is there overall.
I still worry about some of our younger guys who we expected to contribute more and didn't (including missing through injury) though. Dow, LOB, JSOS, Marchbank, C.Curnow, Fisher, Cunningham, Stocker. That's a pretty good list of young players who for a variety of reasons didn't develop enough in our best 22.

This year we can tick off the on field development of youngsters such as McKay, Setterfield, TDK, Walsh, Weiters, Williamson and to lesser extents SPS and Cottrell. For me the list is too short.

We also still rely on too many older guys going into next year. I think you can give a pass to Jones and E.Curnow, but Murphy, Casbolt, Betts should not be walk up starts in 2021.

In short, the young talent is there, we just need to play and develop them, sprinkle a couple high end talents into the squad through Trade/FA and we're a top 8 side.

Agree that there has been improvement, but my biggest concern is the number of points leaked. 2019 had us finish with conceding the 4th highest points. This year, it will rank 5th or 6th highest. The defence has had to withstand a lot of fire. The kids currently on the list will not solve the pressure that is currently created by our last of midfield depth. It’s very important they secure at least one A or B+ midfielder in the trade or free agency period.

 

[gandaal]

Gone:

Kreuzer
Simpson
Goddard
Lang
O'Dwyer
B Silvagni
Macreadie
Moore
Polson

50/50:

Kennedy

Apparently being offered deals but surely we might reconsider:

Casboult
Murphy
Betts

Anyone see it differently to that?

Owies
Phillips

 

[RAPPA]

What output?. He has been almost invisible in the second half of the year. He has been on the decline since his final year at Adelaide. Id rather invest time in someone like Honey that carry around Eddie for another year.

Forward pocket is a very difficult position that seems to be only judged by goals scored.
He kicked 13 from 15 games. So third highest goal kicker. Led our goal assists with Gibbons the next best.
Someone will have to play that position. Putting Honey in a forward pocket will not help his development because that’ll play him out of position. If we want to move on players for the sake of player development, then have a replacement that is suited to the position.

 

[The Blue Baggers]

I would delist McGovern he doesn't get involved enough in games and has zero intensity. At his age he should be a consistent performer he isn't so needs to go.

I would also delist Casboult dont think you can play Pittonet, DeKoning and Casboult in same team and I would rather the club keeps playing DeKoning and Pittonet than Casboult.

think TDK should 1st ruck ... Pittonet struggles forward

Casboult is still a better forward / 2nd ruck than Pittonet !!

agree McGovern needs to go even if we have to pay part of his salary.... absolute liability .... like starting with 17 ... add Plowman we start 2 short !!

 

[blueblooded]

Just going through our stat winners and Walshy averaged the most with 20.5 possessions per game across the season for us. Every other club had at least two players with a higher average including Adelaide and North.

Considering this, Cripps being well down and out of form the whole year, we’ve been incredibly competitive across the season. Setterfield came up a level but still not at Walsh’s level and you need at least 3 players giving you Walsh’s output to be a top side. You’d think Cripps can get his body right and find it again, Walsh just needs to be played in the centre of the park, yes he’s been good on the wing but he’s an A grade mid he was one of the best ever on ballers at junior level and he’s shown when he’s in there he’s already a weapon.

We need another two quality accumulators in the side. Williams, crouch, merret, viney, wines. We need to go hard and nab at least one of this crew and preferably two. With this additional support in the midfield we should jump a number of levels because everywhere else we are stacked.

 

[The Great Ian]

Murphy’s position in the team has already been decided. 15 years or so at the club. He would have walked off with Simmo if he was to be retired/delisted.

Chaos has been a ladder for our Littlefinger


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[Arr0w]

think TDK should 1st ruck ... Pittonet struggles forward

Casboult is still a better forward / 2nd ruck than Pittonet !!

agree McGovern needs to go even if we have to pay part of his salary.... absolute liability .... like starting with 17 ... add Plowman we start 2 short !!

Plowman?

Absolutely spanked 2 of the best small forwards in Papley and Cameron

 

[Metalcrusher]

Plowman?

Absolutely spanked 2 of the best small forwards in Papley and Cameron

People must see what they want to see with Plow ... fair dinkum.

 

[Tony Lynn 15]

People must see what they want to see with Plow ... fair dinkum.

Agree. It is ******* ridiculous. He was really good all year yet many on here want him gone.

 

[Foucault1989]

I've said it a few times, but our future will be largely determined by how well our core group of young players drafted or traded in since 2015. However, at the conclusion of 2020, there are still so many question marks over a bulk of those players. I would have hoped more took that next step this year, but unfortunately it was a stagnate or backwards year for many. Here is my analysis:

Captains:
Cripps
Docherty

Elite: All have demonstrated they can be/are A graders:
McKay
Walsh
Curnow
Weitering

In-between elite and solid:
Jack Martin - need more consistency

Progressing well: took a positive step this year:
Setterfield (need a bit more)
TDK
Williamson

Some good signs but need more consistency and impact:
Cuningham
Kennedy
SPS
Fisher
This group has to take the next step for us to have success. So many question marks.

Injury ward: hard to judge progress:
JSOS
Kemp
Macreadie
Marchbank
We need these four to be in the "taking next step" category next year. Kemp has scope for a development year and if Macreadie is still on the list, he needs to have an injury free year to push for a spot.

Developing
Philip
Honey
Ramsay
Stocker

Alarming: gone backwards or stagnated:
Dow
O'Brien
McGovern
Betts

Current good mid - mature aged players performing a role for now:
Gibbons
Curnow
Plowman
Murphy
Jones
Newnes
Pitt

Delist:
Moore
Goddard
BSOS
Finbar
Polson
Owies
Cottrell
Lang
Phillips
(I'd also love to get rid of McGovern and Betts)

My best 22 for next year from current list not including potential trades and free agents:

Plowman Jones Marchbank
Docherty Weitering Williamson
Walsh Cripps SPS
Martin McKay Fisher
Cuningham Curnow JSOS
TDK/Pitt Setterfield Curnow
Newnes Casboult Kennedy Gibbons

I'd love to replace that whole bench to be honest. Not sure we can bank on Kemp, Philip, Stocker, Dow, O'Brien to replace them at this stage. Hit the free agency, trades and draft. Still a lot of dead wood. Need more midfielders.

 

[The Blue Baggers]

Just going through our stat winners and Walshy averaged the most with 20.5 possessions per game across the season for us. Every other club had at least two players with a higher average including Adelaide and North.

Considering this, Cripps being well down and out of form the whole year, we’ve been incredibly competitive across the season. Setterfield came up a level but still not at Walsh’s level and you need at least 3 players giving you Walsh’s output to be a top side. You’d think Cripps can get his body right and find it again, Walsh just needs to be played in the centre of the park, yes he’s been good on the wing but he’s an A grade mid he was one of the best ever on ballers at junior level and he’s shown when he’s in there he’s already a weapon.

We need another two quality accumulators in the side. Williams, crouch, merret, viney, wines. We need to go hard and nab at least one of this crew and preferably two. With this additional support in the midfield we should jump a number of levels because everywhere else we are stacked.

agree we need at least one mid from players mentioned and NOT Jack Graham !!

 

[The Blue Baggers]

Agree. It is ******* ridiculous. He was really good all year yet many on here want him gone.

all year ... watch his performance against Gary Rohan , Jake Stringer , Jaidyn Stephenson , Adelaide game in general ....

 

[The Great Ian]

all year ... watch his performance against Gary Rohan , Jake Stringer , Jaidyn Stephenson , Adelaide game in general ....

Plowman has graduated in the art of ‘Levi’ where by he makes his match killer howlers invisible to club and supporters.


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[passmark]

Casboult hate returns.

Funny old world.

 

[carlton_99]

Is the Plowman hate still a thing... surely not. Has been arguably our 2nd most consistent defender behind Weiters.

 

[I bleed Blue]

Geelong may and if not Geelong, then Brisbane with #18 & #19 odd, may.
If Williams arrives....and Papley is out of the equation, it may be a ploy we look at for the likes of Saad and *****

If Williamson does take on a wing role.....and he should....and SPS plays upfield.....and he should....maybe two quality back-men shouldn't be out of the equation for us.

This is exactly what we should be doing

 

[Mr_Plow]

Plowman has graduated in the art of ‘Levi’ where by he makes his match killer howlers invisible to club and supporters.


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Can't believe you'd even draw comparisons and put them in the same sentence. What a ******* joke.

 

[Red Bull]

Will wait for confirmation re list sizes before analysing the cuts.
That said, had hoped for more retirements at this stage, maybe still a chance to come but unlikely.

It appears Williams and Saad are firmly in our sights and both would obviously be welcome additions.

Still believe we need a genuine quality midfielder though.
Options :
Like Kelly’s class.
Like Wines’ grunt.
Like Viney’s toughness.
Like Merrett full stop.
Merrett would be the pick if possible.
Viney obviously the easiest to obtain.

Small forward is again, obviously a position of need.
Options :
Spargo
Lonie
Hill
Rosas
There might also be possibilities at Richmond and Geelong.

 

[Stamos]

Forward pocket is a very difficult position that seems to be only judged by goals scored.
He kicked 13 from 15 games. So third highest goal kicker. Led our goal assists with Gibbons the next best.
Someone will have to play that position. Putting Honey in a forward pocket will not help his development because that’ll play him out of position. If we want to move on players for the sake of player development, then have a replacement that is suited to the position.

The problem is, he kicked 10 in his first 6 matches of the year, and 3 in the next 9.

Add on another 6 months before our next game, it's really not looking good.