List Mgmt. 2020 List Management II

[DangerousD]

There is no one out of contract this year sans Zac Williams that is worth us throwing the big bucks at.

I like Jye Caldwell, but he is not someone we should be throwing serious cash at.

Happy for us to sit on our 'war chest' for anothee year, unless Ollie Wines or Powell-Pepper are gettable in which I would say we should go for it.

I want us to become better/focus on developing from within, first and foremost.

We can’t sit on the war chest that we have by underpaying the last few years, it needs to be used this season. I’m not sure Simpson or Kruz going gives us any more money, the club would have known that this year or next would be their last and would have been paying or structuring deals accordingly.

 

[murphster]

Butler has kicked the most of any small so far this year with 26 (1.6 per game). 1.6 across 22 games is 25. Obviously shorter quarters play into that, but 35 is still decent.

Last year the smalls top goal scores were:

1. Cameron 57 in 24 (2.4 per game)
2. Walters 40 in 22 (1.8)
3. Sexton 39 in 22 (1.8)
4. Lloyd 38 in 23 (1.7)
5. Papley 37 in 22 (1.7)
6. Betts 37 in 21 (1.8)
7. Ablett 34 in 24 (1.4)
8. Breust 34 in 22 (1.5)
9. McDonald-Tipungwuti 32 in 23 (1.4)
10. Ryan 30 in 24 (1.3)

I'm not counting the bigger types here like Martin, De Goey, Stringer, etc (who would come in towards the bottom of that list anyway). Probably debatable on Lloyd, he's a bit more of a lead up player, but not a 'power' type like DM, JDG & JS.

35+ is top tier small forward. Even then, I'm sure most love Liam Ryan but he could only manage the 30 in 24 games. Cameron was a bit of an outlier with 17 more than 2nd place. Brisbane really focused on him and when they had bid days he'd get out the back multiple times, I think they're trying to correct the balance of forward targets so it's not simply 'stop Charlie, stop Brisbane'.

What would you rather; Fish get 35 himself 'selfishly' or just the 20 but double the goal assists? It's not just his own output, it's how the team performs together as a unit.

Definitely take the 20 and double the goal assists, a much more valuable contribution to the team.

 

[mochacinolatte]

The old brisbane lions comparison, werent people on here doing this last year and we were supposed to make top 8, maybe top 4?......bEcAuSe BrIsBaNe DiD iT

Like what is the exact point of this post? If you enjoy bad mouthing the team you can send them email, instead you whinge and bring nothing to discuss.

I provided a case study agaisnt the Lions list to ours on why we should be hopeful for 2021. We got pretty damn close in making the top 8 this year and compare to last year were we were bound to finish bottom 3 half way through 2019.

 

[Sector 7G]

I can't believe the AFL hasn't announced the list numbers for next year. They should just say it is a minimum of 40 but if you have the cap space you say have as many as you want. Would help struggling clubs pay the minimum and give a potential leg up.

Really hard to know how much harder we are going to have to cut. If we do go to the ridiculously low number of 40 you aren't going to be able to carry players that are always injured like Marchie or a Ben Reid. Also there is no room on a list for a player like Finbar or a skinny 18 yr old ruckman who is 4 years from playing AFL.

 

[BigBreakfast]

Murph already signed another 1 year deal didn't he?

I thought so but, I couldn’t find any evidence when I looked for an announcement. Maybe there is an agreement, I’ve seen evidence that this is the case, but he is waiting to get a feel for the room in the off-season.

 

[FRUMPY]

Like what is the exact point of this post? If you enjoy bad mouthing the team you can send them email, instead you whinge and bring nothing to discuss.

I provided a case study agaisnt the Lions list to ours on why we should be hopeful for 2021. We got pretty damn close in making the top 8 this year and compare to last year were we were bound to finish bottom 3 half way through 2019.

Someones a bit gwumpy

Just it funny how things like that pop up because some other team did something the year before. I used last years comparison to the same team you used as an example. Late last year people were saying we will be the Brisbane of 2019 (top 4 finish) because they won lots of games in the 2nd half of 2018 (like we did at the end of 2019) - yeah we didnt come close to that comparison.

And im not sure finishing 12th, 2 and half games out of the 8 is that close (if i tip 9 correct this week)

 

[Juddrockz]

Wouldn't be opposed to it but we also have Nic Newman. I'd rather the money be spent in the middle or on a small forward.

Williams is a jack of all trades. Even kicked 2 goals last game.

 

[Arr0w]

It'd certainly improve our side defensively & another option would be to have Kemp play that role.
He's not as good a stopper as Marchbank but will offer more going the other way.

I have no doubt that Kemp will start his career at HB, similar to Ash

 

[Arr0w]

The old brisbane lions comparison, werent people on here doing this last year and we were supposed to make top 8, maybe top 4?......bEcAuSe BrIsBaNe DiD iT

No actually

If you are comparing timelines, Lions made the 8 in their 6th year of their rebuild, 2019

2021 hasn't started yet

 

[mochacinolatte]

Someones a bit gwumpy

Just it funny how things like that pop up because some other team did something the year before. I used last years comparison to the same team you used as an example. Late last year people were saying we will be the Brisbane of 2019 (top 4 finish) because they won lots of games in the 2nd half of 2018 (like we did at the end of 2019) - yeah we didnt come close to that comparison.

And im not sure finishing 12th, 2 and half games out of the 8 is that close (if i tip 9 correct this week)

I mean honestly, what were you trying to achieve with the post above? Why waste peoples time reading drivel when you can post something worthwhile discussion as highlight bold?

The key difference why the Brisbane shot up the ladder was they added an experience midfielder in Neale/Lyons to help the pressure in their young midfield brigade with McCluggage and Berry. They added key premiership player Luke Hodge to helpcoach their young backline to control the footy and structure.

Our 2019 traded we didn't bring more experience midfield depth to help Cripps, we allowed an inexperience Setterfield/Walsh to lead. Although we did add Docherty in our backline, there has to be some leeway as he is coming off an ACL.

Yes were close in finishing top 8. We were in the top 8 in week 6 for the first time since 2013, if we had won some close this year e.g Port/Melb/GWS we would of been sitting in the top 8. If you can't see their has been sharp improvement I don't know how to convince yourself.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

The old brisbane lions comparison, werent people on here doing this last year and we were supposed to make top 8, maybe top 4?......bEcAuSe BrIsBaNe DiD iT

Only if we were ahead of them, which are not. If we don’t make them next year then serious pressure will come on.

 

[FRUMPY]

Yes were close in finishing top 8. We were in the top 8 in week 6 for the first time since 2013, if we had won some close this year e.g Port/Melb/GWS we would of been sitting in the top 8. If you can't see their has been sharp improvement I don't know how to convince yourself.

If we had of lost close games to ess/north/swans we would be around 16th - why do people say 'if we had of won' when we didnt. Its like saying if my aunty had balls she'd be my uncle (well, that used to be the case, not these days)

Anyway, you can compare to other teams and crystal ball where we will finish, hope you're correct.

 

[Malifice]

We have not really got a trove of trade assets/picks to barter with (am very reluctant to part with our 2021 first round pick unless it's for an exceptional player aged 25 or under)

We have this years 1st and next years 1st to barter with.

That's enough for a Josh Kelly.

 

[blue healer]

Lions also never played with the number of senior players we do. A sprinkle, sure, but only if they are performing considerably better than a younger version. That would be different if we are a flag contender, but we are not. If Fisher plays that role, you shift everyone down a line. We have a number of players that play HF/HHF rotaing around the stoppages. Cuners, Gibbons, Honey, Philp, Newnes

I know I shouldn't do this and I'm not going to indulge in a long, 3 page discussion but am happy to discuss briefly.

After professing for 12 months or more that we are ahead of the Lions rebuild you now say that we won't match their development because they never played the senior players that we have as an excuse.

In their semi final sides last year they played 4 players over 30. This year (discounting half a game by Kreuzer) we played 5 and even if we sign Betts and Murph for another year we will play a maximum of 5 and that is assuming they are good enough to hold younger players out.

More interesting is that the lions played 7 kids under 22, how many do you think we will regularly play next year in that age group?

On paper we are age-wise a better balanced list than the Lions were last year, the overall quality remains to be seen.

Remember when you and others were telling us all that we would fill that 23-28 age bracket with our draftees and young trades. That is about to happen as we have around 8 players to enter that next year. I think the moment of truth for our rebuild strategy is nearing.

 

[mochacinolatte]

If we had of lost close games to ess/north/swans we would be around 16th - why do people say 'if we had of won' when we didnt. Its like saying if my aunty had balls she'd be my uncle (well, that used to be the case, not these days)

Anyway, you can compare to other teams and crystal ball where we will finish, hope you're correct.

Having close games is a good indicator that a rebuilding is getting better.

So are you saying that our 2020 season has been worse than 2016/2017/2018/2019?

If we don't see improvement further improvement in 2021 then yes I would be concern.

 

[Arr0w]

I know I shouldn't do this and I'm not going to indulge in a long, 3 page discussion but am happy to discuss briefly.

After professing for 12 months or more that we are ahead of the Lions rebuild you now say that we won't match their development because they never played the senior players that we have as an excuse.

In their semi final sides last year they played 4 players over 30. This year (discounting half a game by Kreuzer) we played 5 and even if we sign Betts and Murph for another year we will play a maximum of 5 and that is assuming they are good enough to hold younger players out.

More interesting is that the lions played 7 kids under 22, how many do you think we will regularly play next year in that age group?

On paper we are age-wise a better balanced list than the Lions were last year, the overall quality remains to be seen.

Remember when you and others were telling us all that we would fill that 23-28 age bracket with our draftees and young trades. That is about to happen as we have around 8 players to enter that next year. I think the moment of truth for our rebuild strategy is nearing.

Never said anything relating to older players versus excuses, I just stated that they haven't played many older players and or the quality of those older players is collectively better. They did/do have older players on the list, but they have chosen to play the better performing younger player if warranted, I hope we do the same

Glad you mentioned that age bracket, it really is a key indicator for sides taking/consolidating the next step and we have close to 10 entering that age, while possibly losing 1

Unless we have a horrific year of injuries, I will not be leaning on any excuses, as I believe the target should be 12-15 wins. While I believe that number is natural progression, a strong trade period will solidify that prediction, as opposed to improving the outcome

 

[blue healer]

Never said anything relating to older players versus excuses, I just stated that they haven't played many older players and or the quality of those older players is collectively better. They did/do have older players on the list, but they have chosen to play the better performing younger player if warranted, I hope we do the same

Glad you mentioned that age bracket, it really is a key indicator for sides taking/consolidating the next step and we have close to 10 entering that age, while possibly losing 1

Unless we have a horrific year of injuries, I will not be leaning on any excuses, as I believe the target should be 12-15 wins. While I believe that number is natural progression, a strong trade period will solidify that prediction, as opposed to improving the outcome

I guess I read your comment about them playing fewer older players as an excuse so, my bad, however they are still regularly playing 4 over 30 whilst we're playing 5, the quality comparison of theirs to ours is debatable but suffice to say the M/C haven't seen younger players capable at this point of ousting our seniors. The Covid circumstances haven't helped our players much at all, but I guess all teams can say that.

I agree with your last paragraph, 15 is a little above my expectations and, as you say, injury is always a rider clause. A different ballgame if we can nail trade week though.

 

[blue healer]

There is no one out of contract this year sans Zac Williams that is worth us throwing the big bucks at.

I like Jye Caldwell, but he is not someone we should be throwing serious cash at.

Happy for us to sit on our 'war chest' for anothee year, unless Ollie Wines or Powell-Pepper are gettable in which I would say we should go for it.

I want us to become better/focus on developing from within, first and foremost.

McGrath from* is out of contract i think. wouldn't mind having a sneaky crack at him.

 

[HARKER]

I have no doubt that Kemp will start his career at HB, similar to Ash

Arr0w what do you think of Kemp starting on a wing?

Most of us may see a Gaff or Kelly type being the ideal wingers for us, but from the little I've seen of Kemp.....he may well be a real grunt for us playing wing.
I wouldn't have him playing back....much sooner Stocker there.

There's something about Kemp that leads me into seeing him as what we earlier envisaged Tomlinson becoming - Someone who could hurt you both ways.
He and Walsh off the wings....I don't know.....just feels right.

 

[Arr0w]

Arr0w what do you think of Kemp starting on a wing?

Most of us may see a Gaff or Kelly type being the ideal wingers for us, but from the little I've seen of Kemp.....he may well be a real grunt for us playing wing.
I wouldn't have him playing back....much sooner Stocker there.

There's something about Kemp that leads me into seeing him as what we earlier envisaged Tomlinson becoming - Someone who could hurt you both ways.
He and Walsh off the wings....I don't know.....just feels right.

I think he could handle the role, just like a Dangerfield could(not making the comparison), but given his robust frame, speed and an appetite for the contest, he would be somewhat wasted in that role

I see him starting HB, then move into the middle, changing as a genuine forward threat

The kid has everything we want, speed, mongrel, above average footskills

 

[HARKER]

I think he could handle the role, just like a Dangerfield could(not making the comparison), but given his robust frame, speed and an appetite for the contest, he would be somewhat wasted in that role
I see him starting HB, then move into the middle, changing as a genuine forward threat
The kid has everything we want, speed, mongrel, above average footskills

If we read only this, we wouldn't know whether we're talking about Stocker or Kemp.

Kemp has the better endurance and as you say, both have that lust for the contest, we need.
I watched Stocker play back last year and he seemed a natural. Shame we haven't seen him this year though.

For me - I'd sooner get ourselves a bona fide mid and allow Walsh and Kemp to take on the principle wing roles.
Newnes has been OK...just OK...but not the answer going forward and O'Brien is a mystery, unfortunately.

Still a lot to work through of course but if somehow we can get Stocker and Kemp up to speed next year, I feel they could add something we've been lacking in recent years - Yes..... JustaBattler 's mongrel.

 

[Iwishicouldplay4themoney]

Hi wise ones is there any news on a seconds side next year. If so is it stand alone or joint. I hope it's stand alone .

 

[Chookaradley]

I think the club should really think hard about a generational transition with this group. I wouldnt be offering a contract to Eddie, would be offering Levi up for trade, and considering the future of Marc Murphy. I think its time.

 

[reubsblues]

Say we end up with pick 7
We pick swap with cats for 2 later first rounders they have on trade one of those for Saad
Use the other pick plus next yrs first for one of Wines, Viney, Degoey, one of gws mids
that wants out
Williams FA
Crouch FA
Happy days

 

[Brackets]

Say we end up with pick 7
We pick swap with cats for 2 later first rounders they have on trade one of those for Saad
Use the other pick plus next yrs first for one of Wines, Viney, Degoey, one of gws mids
that wants out
Williams FA
Crouch FA
Happy days

Little benefit for the Cats to move up a few spots this year.