List Mgmt. 2020 List Management II

[Blue__Balls]

All good reading, but alot of those big losses were with Bolton in charge (and the biggest win) - we got rid of him for a reason. No doubt improved but as you stated, its those bad quarters/run ons which were also a problem under teague last year.

For sure. Our biggest loss of the 2019 season came under Bolton. So did our biggest win. That's my point. Under Teague we're tightening things up.

The average margin (win or lose) under Bolton last year was 31pts.
Under Teague last year it was 17pts.
Under Teague this year it's 15pts.

I reckon there were two games we never looked like being a chance - St Kilda and Adelaide. Every other game we've been "in".

The bad run ons are absolutely an issue, and one that needs to be addressed. But it's a progression from the issue being bad games.

 

[HARKER]

Our starting midfield still consists of Marc Murphy, Ed Curnow and *insert kids* with only Cripps and Walsh (yes, he's a kid too but he's also an anomaly because of how good he already is) really cementing their credentials as A grade.

There's been sfa development this year. Scratch matches lol. Do you think Dow and LOB are going to come straight in and suddenly play at the level we need from them? They need more time and Cripps needs more support... it's as clear as day...

Kelly, Williams and Graham would completely change that....

I don't think so.

Murphy has been used sparingly, and that kid Setterfield has been heavily involved and is getting better.
Cripps, Setterfield, Walsh & ECurnow have been the mainstays in recent weeks and we'll have to get games into all the other mids we have, along with cameos when required for the likes of Cuningham, SPS, Martin, Gibbons etc.

.....and if we take on Williams, he'll also drop in to the midfield and maybe even more than we've bargained for.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Witherden is slow, but yes, he can kick. Much sooner put the time into Williamson than clocking up a 350K bill for Witherden.
...but why Williams and Witherden? Williams by a mile for me.

I can see us looking at Graham because of the Richmond connection, but I feel we'd be wrong in doing so.
Yes, he did kick goals, but so did Duigan. He's not a goal-kicker. Much sooner stick with Stocker + Kemp.

Smith? Get rid of Newnes and throw in Smith for a year? Maybe, but that's the deal. We don't need both.

When you trade, you don't trade for players because you think you may have injuries.
You trade for players that will slot into your best 22 from the get go.

Quality and needs over quantity and depth, for me.

I'm a quality over quantity guy too. What's wrong with the quality of those players? Smith is still capable. Graham is actually in pretty good form, Witherden has kicking attributes that we lack, Williams and Kelly goes without saying. And to answer your question, I reckon Williams will be primarily used as a mid with us.

Stocker + Kemp? You reckon those kids are going to come in and have a consistent impact next 2 years? Be really lucky. It's not about goal kicking from Graham, he is an endurance runner and goes both ways.

It's not a matter of thinking we may have injuries. Unless we are blessed by some miracle, we are going to have key injuries.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Our starting midfield still consists of Marc Murphy, Ed Curnow and *insert kids* with only Cripps and Walsh (yes, he's a kid too but he's also an anomaly because of how good he already is) really cementing their credentials as A grade.

There's been sfa development this year. Scratch matches lol. Do you think Dow and LOB are going to come straight in and suddenly play at the level we need from them? They need more time and Cripps needs more support... it's as clear as day...

Kelly, Williams and Graham would completely change that....

Do I think Dow and LOB will come straight in and play at the required level? I reckon it's a 50/50 prospect. A full preseason can make a huge difference. The reality is, though, that we do need to find at least one spot for one of those young guys (Dow, Stocker, Kemp) and rotate them through it based on form and fitness.

If we add a Josh Kelly or a Zac Williams to the midfield set-up, then Graham is battling for a spot. Why would he come to a club where he is on the fringe of the midfield, when a side like Adelaide or NM would have him on-ball full time? It's as much about what he is getting out if it as what we are.

As I said, if our other major acqusitions are at either end of the ground, I really like Graham as an option. But if we add an elite mid, then we don't need to be throwing a second rounder at Graham given the developing players we've got to rotate through the last spot.

Say we get Witherden and Lonie sewn up. Williams gets pinched by the Saints. Viney and Wines choose to stay where they are. That's the time to go Graham.

 

[HARKER]

I'm a quality over quantity guy too. What's wrong with the quality of those players? Smith is still capable. Graham is actually in pretty good form, Witherden has kicking attributes that we lack, Williams and Kelly goes without saying. And to answer your question, I reckon Williams will be primarily used as a mid with us.

Stocker + Kemp? You reckon those kids are going to come in and have a consistent impact next 2 years? Be really lucky. It's not about goal kicking from Graham, he is an endurance runner and goes both ways.

It's not a matter of thinking we may have injuries. Unless we are blessed by some miracle, we are going to have key injuries.

There's nothing wrong with the quality and you can even add a few more and we could look at the quality, but as always; For every action there's a reaction.

Show me a team with those 5 players involved and you'll see what I mean. We don't need to double up on things we have, yet discount things we don't.
That would be a terrible way for the CFC to go, from here....see GWS.

 

[Arr0w]

Witherden is slow, but yes, he can kick. Much sooner put the time into Williamson than clocking up a 350K bill for Witherden.
...but why Williams and Witherden? Williams by a mile for me.

I can see us looking at Graham because of the Richmond connection, but I feel we'd be wrong in doing so.
Yes, he did kick goals, but so did Duigan. He's not a goal-kicker. Much sooner stick with Stocker + Kemp.

Smith? Get rid of Newnes and throw in Smith for a year? Maybe, but that's the deal. We don't need both.

When you trade, you don't trade for players because you think you may have injuries.
You trade for players that will slot into your best 22 from the get go.

Quality and needs over quantity and depth, for me.

The players Blue Fusion listed would be starting 22, although I have little interest in Smith

 

[Stamos]

Percentage was always going to be one of the KPI's for the year.

2016 - 79.3%
2017 - 78.2%
2018 - 59.3%
2019 - 84.5%
2020 - 95.6%

We've roughly squared the ledger in close results - 5 and 3 from games with <10pt margin.

Our biggest losing margin for the year was 31pts, with only three other losses by >20pts.

We had two big wins - 52pts over the Bulldogs and 33pts over the Suns.

Compare that to last season.

Biggest losses - 93pts (GWS), 68pts (Geel), 58pts (NM), 41pts (Ess), 33pts (Rich)
Biggest wins - 44pts (WB), 27pts (Ade), 24pts (GC)
Went 2 and 4 in games decided by 10 or less points.


The progression is clear as day.

The frustration for fans has changed. Previously it was "Great, we're getting smashed again", now it's "That one poor quarter killed us".

We're still inconsistent, but the gap between the floor and ceiling is closing.

Can you do the improvement this year over Teague's 11 games last year?
Bolton's 2019 tenure is irrelevant.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Can you do the improvement this year over Teague's 11 games last year?
Bolton's 2019 tenure is irrelevant.

What numbers in particular?

Popped this in a subsequent post:

The average margin (win or lose) under Bolton last year was 31pts.
Under Teague last year it was 17pts.
Under Teague this year it's 15pts.

 

[Stamos]

What numbers in particular?

Popped this in a subsequent post:

The average margin (win or lose) under Bolton last year was 31pts.
Under Teague last year it was 17pts.
Under Teague this year it's 15pts.

Percentage?
Win/Loss has obviously gone down.

 

[CJMB]

Percentage?
Win/Loss has obviously gone down.

1-11:
W/L 1/10
PF 738 (67.1 av)
PA 993 (90.3
74.3%

12-23:
W/L 6/5
PF 871 (79.2 av)
PA 912 (82.9 av)
95.5%

2020:
W/L 7/9
PF 956 (59.8)
PA 1000 (62.5)
95.6%

 

[Stamos]

1-11:
W/L 1/10
PF 738 (67.1 av)
PA 993 (90.3
74.3%

12-23:
W/L 6/5
PF 871 (79.2 av)
PA 912 (82.9 av)
95.5%

Great. So prior to our last match against Brisbane (and history hasn't been so kind to us in final round matches the last few years), our winning percentage has gone down, but our scores percentage has increased by 0.1

This year has not been an improvement.

 

[Arr0w]

Great. So prior to our last match against Brisbane (and history hasn't been so kind to us in final round matches the last few years), our winning percentage has gone down, but our scores percentage has increased by 0.1

This year has not been an improvement.

Yes it has

 

[CJMB]

Great. So prior to our last match against Brisbane (and history hasn't been so kind to us in final round matches the last few years), our winning percentage has gone down, but our scores percentage has increased by 0.1

This year has not been an improvement.

I've edited my post to add 2020... our percentage is actually up 0.1%

 

[Coona Blues]

Would be good if we had a KPD to trade to GWS right now.
Corr is going to North.....Davis held together by tape.....and O'Keefe starts next season as a 31 year old.

All those highly touted midfielders they can't fit in, yet desperately lacking in KPD's....and then even Shaw is 35.
Someone is going to make good with trading them a KPD for overs, unless GWS can manufacture defenders out of the likes of Finlayson or Himmelberg.

So many midfielders, terribly skinny on KPD's and next to no ruckmen. Terrible list management. Lesson to be learned right there.

Sam Taylor says hi, and Haynes can step up as an undersized KPD (taller than many who play the role) they are fine. Davis same vintage or younger
than Jones and Casboult.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Percentage?
Win/Loss has obviously gone down.

Very similar.

95.5% from R12 onwards.

 

[Stamos]

Yes it has

How do you figure?
We've gone from 6-5 and 95.5% to 7-9 and 95.6%

The 0.1% hardly covers that we're losing more than we're winning.

 

[skadoosh]

Percentage was always going to be one of the KPI's for the year.

2016 - 79.3%
2017 - 78.2%
2018 - 59.3%
2019 - 84.5%
2020 - 95.6%

We've roughly squared the ledger in close results - 5 and 3 from games with <10pt margin.

Our biggest losing margin for the year was 31pts, with only three other losses by >20pts.

We had two big wins - 52pts over the Bulldogs and 33pts over the Suns.

Compare that to last season.

Biggest losses - 93pts (GWS), 68pts (Geel), 58pts (NM), 41pts (Ess), 33pts (Rich)
Biggest wins - 44pts (WB), 27pts (Ade), 24pts (GC)
Went 2 and 4 in games decided by 10 or less points.


The progression is clear as day.

The frustration for fans has changed. Previously it was "Great, we're getting smashed again", now it's "That one poor quarter killed us".

We're still inconsistent, but the gap between the floor and ceiling is closing.

Waiting for the day where best "should've won the granny by 100 points" and worst "should've won the granny by 50 points"

 

[HARKER]

Sam Taylor says hi, and Haynes can step up as an undersized KPD (taller than many who play the role) they are fine. Davis same vintage or younger
than Jones and Casboult.

Maybe but he's certainly behind the others mentioned and the point with Davis is that as their principle KPD'er and leader, he's injured a hell of a lot.

The thing is that their current three principle KPD's go into next season, with question marks on all.
Dangerous situation to be in.....and they still don't have a ruck-man.

Their backline could be in trouble sooner than later and my guess would be that they'll be desperate for a legitimate KPD this off-season.

 

[bigm386]

Would be good if we had a KPD to trade to GWS right now.
Corr is going to North.....Davis held together by tape.....and O'Keefe starts next season as a 31 year old.

All those highly touted midfielders they can't fit in, yet desperately lacking in KPD's....and then even Shaw is 35.
Someone is going to make good with trading them a KPD for overs, unless GWS can manufacture defenders out of the likes of Finlayson or Himmelberg.

So many midfielders, terribly skinny on KPD's and next to no ruckmen. Terrible list management. Lesson to be learned right there.

Have to praise SOS for drafting the spine first. Takes longer to develop and was the right call.

Essendope have similar issues but have unearthed some KPD at least!

 

[Percy2257]

He posted this:View attachment 962495

That doesn’t tell us anything about his reasons for leaving the hub. Perhaps Barass knows

 

[Blue__Balls]

How do you figure?
We've gone from 6-5 and 95.5% to 7-9 and 95.6%

The 0.1% hardly covers that we're losing more than we're winning.

Last year's performance under Teague was a very limited sample size. I'd question whether we'd have been able to sustain it for a full season. We were cooked by the Geelong game.

This year we have sustained it, and we've done so while shifting more of the load onto the younger players than what Teague was doing when he first took over last year.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Great. So prior to our last match against Brisbane (and history hasn't been so kind to us in final round matches the last few years), our winning percentage has gone down, but our scores percentage has increased by 0.1

This year has not been an improvement.

You are not comparing years. You are comparing a block of 11 games to a full season.

 

[Arr0w]

How do you figure?
We've gone from 6-5 and 95.5% to 7-9 and 95.6%

The 0.1% hardly covers that we're losing more than we're winning.

Because wins, losses and percentage right at this point in time is way to simplistic.

You are also basing it on what our outcomes are versus other teams, while ignoring what has happened with results in other games, not to mention progression of rebuilding clubs, that upward trend is never consistent

The main priority for me this year was minimizing/eliminating the large losing margins, which we have done, similar to the likes of the Lions from 2017 to 2018

Next year we improve the numbers dramatically in that critical age bracket, 23-27, which will help with being more consistent for longer and along with adding more layers to the gameplan, I am confident many of the close loses will result in more wins

 

[bigm386]

Our starting midfield still consists of Marc Murphy, Ed Curnow and *insert kids* with only Cripps and Walsh (yes, he's a kid too but he's also an anomaly because of how good he already is) really cementing their credentials as A grade.

There's been sfa development this year. Scratch matches lol. Do you think Dow and LOB are going to come straight in and suddenly play at the level we need from them? They need more time and Cripps needs more support... it's as clear as day...

Kelly, Williams and Graham would completely change that....

I think Setterfield is really underrated. Has improved this year and applies a ton of pressure. I think he goes unnoticed because of the style of game he plays. Has averaged a team high 9 tackles this season, 16 disposals and 4 clearances a game (2 Centre and 2 Stoppage) for context Cripps has averaged 6 a game.

I do agree our midfield needs to move away from the senior players. For me you would have Ed Curnow or Cripps in the midfield not both at the same time with Setterfield and another of our kids be it Walsh (he mainly played Wing), Cunners, SPS, Fisher etc or even Martin.

I remember a stat a few weeks ago from Footy Classified showing our centre bounce attendance top 5 1 & 2 Cripps and Curnow (90%) 3. Setterfield (80%) 4. Murphy (60%) and 5 Jack Martin (30%). (Percentages taken from memory but around that)!

This mix really needs to change.

 

[FRUMPY]

You are not comparing years. You are comparing a block of 11 games to a full season.

He's also comparing games under he same coach. The figures if you compare to last year include such a shit first half of the year the cub deemed it bad enough to sack the coach. You would hope our stats have improved compare to last year.