List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[HARKER]

The one I want to pry loose this year is Ian Hill. If he doesn't play ones at any point, get in his ear and get him to us as quickly and quietly as possible.

You may have mentioned this earlier and I think this is really on the mark.

We're all about these 'big-bodied' mids right now, but I'm still not convinced this is our main issue. Good call on Hill.

 

[BlueJet]

I think you are confusing them being cheap with being easy to get. These players are rare and hard to find regardless of where they are drafted.


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My point was not that they're easy to get but that when forking out high value assets, I'd preference midfielders.

that’s just confusing poor recruiting with value. In hindsight do you really think any of those would go that late.

The reality is that small forwards can be drafted later, that people would draft them earlier in hindsight is irrelevant to the point that I'd made ie. that you can draft quality small forwards more cheaply than gun mids, so I'd use my draft/trade capital accordingly.

 

[chunkylover53]

Nothing wrong with Betts and Murphy as our small forwards for the next 2 years, with Martin running through there. In fact that's a couple of dangerous veterans around goals if you ask me. Probably lacks a bit of pressure though.

Owies + another couple can develop in the 2's and replace them come 2022 or so. Problem is, our 2's hasn't been a good setup for a long time, so easier said than done.

 

[murphster]

just thinking about how different carlton would look with wines and crouch in the side, effectively taking out ed and murphy

I’ve read a lot since the Melb game about how hopeless Murphy and Ed are and how we need to replace them now and I think people have short memories and tend to forget there upside in there rush to bag there deficiency’s, during the whole Teague train resurgence last year those 2 were right up there driving the train, Murphy’s second half of the year was nothing short of outstanding and won us many games with his class and composure, bananas anyone, Ed was also outstanding and stood strong in all our wins especially when Cripps was missing, the problem is not these 2 but the lack of support to allow these 2 to play with some freedom.

 

[chunkylover53]

I’ve read a lot since the Melb game about how hopeless Murphy and Ed are and how we need to replace them now and I think people have short memories and tend to forget there upside in there rush to bag there deficiency’s, during the whole Teague train resurgence last year those 2 were right up there driving the train, Murphy’s second half of the year was nothing short of outstanding and won us many games with his class and composure, bananas anyone, Ed was also outstanding and stood strong in all our wins especially when Cripps was missing, the problem is not these 2 but the lack of support to allow these 2 to play with some freedom.

i think Ed holds his own as a tagger

the problem with murph is he is still being asked to play as our 2nd best mid. He's in his twilight years and should be hanging out in the forward pocket or wing tearing up some 3rd or 4th year player, not getting belted around stoppages by blokes the size of Jack Viney.

 

[DangerousD]

Kelly
Coniglio
Cameron
Greene
Whitfield
Taranto

And then you’ve got the likes of Davis, Ward, Hopper etc

Surely they couldn’t afford to give him that much??

its something that I have been going on about for ages and I agree he should be gettable, if they are playing by the same rules.
It’s a widely held belief the AFL is topping up the big players salary but by how much?

Hopper and Tarranto signed extensions last year, I can only assume on modest deals, but it doesn’t add up.

I was basing my $700-$750,000 on pre Covid salary cap too.

 

[DangerousD]

Starting to pay overs to players is my one big concern now that the steady hand of SOS is gone, if we start paying big money to players just to get them through the door and generate a quick fix then all our hard work in the rebuild will be wasted and we will screw up our TPP again after SOS did such an outstanding job to get it back to a good place, this is the quickest way back to the bad old days.

Have you seen how much we are paying Charlie Curnow?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

My point was not that they're easy to get but that when forking out high value assets, I'd preference midfielders.



The reality is that small forwards can be drafted later, that people would draft them earlier in hindsight is irrelevant to the point that I'd made ie. that you can draft quality small forwards more cheaply than gun mids, so I'd use my draft/trade capital accordingly.

I wonder if that’s changing with the likes of Rankine, Pickett and Weightman in the last couple of years. Just because they were taken late doesn’t mean they are easy to find, probably the opposite really. There are 18 teams who would fall over themselves for those guys, I don’t think you should just cross our fingers and hope we are the lucky ones who do. There are probably 10 small forwards in the league who could come in and make us a much better side and about 50 midfielders. I think quality is hard to find regardless of where they play.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Have you seen how much we are paying Charlie Curnow?

This. Unless we have somehow front ended $10mil worth of contracts we are already overpaying.
It’s just that instead of giving someone like Ellis $100k more then he is worth we are giving Setters, Curnow, Marchbank ect it.

 

[Juice030103]

I’ve read a lot since the Melb game about how hopeless Murphy and Ed are and how we need to replace them now and I think people have short memories and tend to forget there upside in there rush to bag there deficiency’s, during the whole Teague train resurgence last year those 2 were right up there driving the train, Murphy’s second half of the year was nothing short of outstanding and won us many games with his class and composure, bananas anyone, Ed was also outstanding and stood strong in all our wins especially when Cripps was missing, the problem is not these 2 but the lack of support to allow these 2 to play with some freedom.

i was meaning to bag them its just they are both in their 30's and will need to be replaced eventually

 

[katmanblue]

I'm scared but sort of turned on at the same time ????

Scaroused.

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[katmanblue]

Some of these guys aren't pups anymore - Setterfield, Dow, Kennedy should be role players at least. In a period of overhaul, our midfield coaching setup has been a relative constant...

As has our relative shitness in this area.

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[katmanblue]

The thing with Caldwell and Hately while they are not mature mids they are right in the zone to come in and start playing good footy now, I actually think that Hately is a little further ahead of Caldwell in this department and has a bigger body on the flip side Caldwell has a better outside game and is quicker, if we could get either of these two we should jump at the chance.

Really? We need to give Dow another couple if years to be consistent, but Caldwell and Hately are ready to play good footy?

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[Kouta2Fev]

Have you seen how much we are paying Charlie Curnow?

When there is 5 minutes left in a prelim or GF and Charlie with his X factor takes the game by the scruff and delivers the knockout blow....remember this moment

 

[BlueJet]

I wonder if that’s changing with the likes of Rankine, Pickett and Weightman in the last couple of years. Just because they were taken late doesn’t mean they are easy to find, probably the opposite really. There are 18 teams who would fall over themselves for those guys, I don’t think you should just cross our fingers and hope we are the lucky ones who do. There are probably 10 small forwards in the league who could come in and make us a much better side and about 50 midfielders. I think quality is hard to find regardless of where they play.

I respect your opinions on here but I'm not sure how you've taken any of that from what I've had to say.
To date we haven't really recruited many small forwards (Lebois/Betts) & we certainly have holes to fill in this space.
I'm not for a moment suggesting that we simply sit on our hands & hope for the best fwiw.
I would be happy to secure someone of the quality of a Papley but as stated a couple of times now, I'd rather target a quality mid.
If you'd rather target a gun small forward, I can understand the reasoning and cannot say that you'd necessarily be wrong either.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I respect your opinions on here but I'm not sure how you've taken any of that from what I've had to say.
To date we haven't really recruited many small forwards (Lebois/Betts) & we certainly have holes to fill in this space.
I'm not for a moment suggesting that we simply sit on our hands & hope for the best fwiw.
I would be happy to secure someone of the quality of a Papley but as stated a couple of times now, I'd rather target a quality mid.
If you'd rather target a gun small forward, I can understand the reasoning and cannot say that you'd necessarily be wrong either.

I’m just saying I don’t think they are easy to find(Quality ones). SOS has used picks 4,7 on players he hoped would play that role well at GWS and failed. I just don’t think there are actually many around that can make your side noticeably better like Papley would.
I wouldn’t blame anyone for wanting a quality mid more then a quality small forward and totally understand why we would go the Mid but when we are talking quality I don’t think one is easier to find then the other.

 

[DangerousD]

When there is 5 minutes left in a prelim or GF and Charlie with his X factor takes the game by the scruff and delivers the knockout blow....remember this moment

Has zero to do with the discussion in regards to SOS not overpaying.

Charlie has played 56 games and is on $750,000 a season, which he will have barely featured in 2019-20

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

just thinking about how different carlton would look with wines and crouch in the side, effectively taking out ed and murphy

Why has Wines name been raised??

I would rather one A+ player,

Cripps and Walsh and one more genuine gun

Then have a support cast of your Fishers Setterfields dows etc


If we have to pay 1.2mil and give up 2 firsts so be it.

100% this.. The Tigers gave up plenty to sign Tom Lynch after they had won a flag.. Lets aim high, someone like Jack Macrae offer him something he can not refuse.. 6 years on 1.2mil or something similar.. then get him demanding a trade.. and then we offer 2 firsts and force the dogs hand... Its a lot of money, might be overs but it fills a need for us that we might spend the next 5 years trying to fix.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Nothing wrong with Betts and Murphy as our small forwards for the next 2 years, with Martin running through there. In fact that's a couple of dangerous veterans around goals if you ask me. Probably lacks a bit of pressure though.

Owies + another couple can develop in the 2's and replace them come 2022 or so. Problem is, our 2's hasn't been a good setup for a long time, so easier said than done.

Thought the same last year regarding Murphy but now with Betts + Martin on the list and Cuningham in the side i dont see a spot for Murphy forward .
And players such as Honey and Philp who are both exciting prospects , as well as fairly well developed physically at a young age id prefer to give games to these 2 than play Murphy forward .
I'll be surprised if Murphy is offered another contract for next year .

 

[Jeremias]

Why has Wines name been raised??

It was pretty widely reported that his management team approached Carlton during last year's trade period requesting we make a play for him.

He has since lost the captaincy at Port Adelaide, and there have been a few off-field issues there as well over the past few years.

Whilst he is contracted for a couple more years, it's not unreasonable to suggest his name could come up again, given they're flying at the moment without him and we could certainly use someone of his quality and experience alongside Cripps.

100% this.. The Tigers gave up plenty to sign Tom Lynch after they had won a flag.. Lets aim high, someone like Jack Macrae offer him something he can not refuse.. 6 years on 1.2mil or something similar.. then get him demanding a trade.. and then we offer 2 firsts and force the dogs hand... Its a lot of money, might be overs but it fills a need for us that we might spend the next 5 years trying to fix.

Lynch was a free agent, so the Tigers gave up nothing (directly) other than a fair chunk of their salary cap.

That's a completely different approach to trading 2 first round picks for Macrae.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

It was pretty widely reported that his management team approached Carlton during last year's trade period requesting we make a play for him.

He has since lost the captaincy at Port Adelaide, and there have been a few off-field issues there as well over the past few years.

Whilst he is contracted for a couple more years, it's not unreasonable to suggest his name could come up again, given they're flying at the moment without him and we could certainly use someone of his quality and experience alongside Cripps.



Lynch was a free agent, so the Tigers gave up nothing (directly) other than a fair chunk of their salary cap.

That's a completely different approach to trading 2 first round picks for Macrae.

Do you think giving up 2 first round picks for Macrae is unreasonable?

 

[chunkylover53]

Thought the same last year regarding Murphy but now with Betts + Martin on the list and Cuningham in the side i dont see a spot for Murphy forward .
And players such as Honey and Philp who are both exciting prospects , as well as fairly well developed physically at a young age id prefer to give games to these 2 than play Murphy forward .
I'll be surprised if Murphy is offered another contract for next year .

We need to start developing some of these guys through the 2's. Honey and Phlip aren't ready despite a solid pre-season and outing on the weekend. We can't keep throwing 1st year players into the seniors, it's not working for us. We need to build these kids up as well as get the 2's back on their feet.

Cunningham can predominantly play wing and drift forward. Martin will mostly play high half forward.

Betts + Murphy is a good combo and will be low-key headaches for opposition coaches.

 

[Iamcarlton]

We need to start developing some of these guys through the 2's. Honey and Phlip aren't ready despite a solid pre-season and outing on the weekend. We can't keep throwing 1st year players into the seniors, it's not working for us. We need to build these kids up as well as get the 2's back on their feet.

Cunningham can predominantly play wing and drift forward. Martin will mostly play high half forward.

Betts + Murphy is a good combo and will be low-key headaches for opposition coaches.

Good points agree in part but in Murphys case disagree Murphy is in clear self preservation mode now .

Has no interest in applying any type of physical pressure in the midfield so therefore will do the same as a forward adding no forward pressure at all .
Given we play 3 talls this cant be accepted in our small forwards imo .

 

[chunkylover53]

Do you think giving up 2 first round picks for Macrae is unreasonable?

Macrae!! Now we're talking.

given the WB may be capitulating there's gotta be one or two blokes that spill out.

 

[Kouta2Fev]

Has zero to do with the discussion in regards to SOS not overpaying.

Charlie has played 56 games and is on $750,000 a season, which he will have barely featured in 2019-20

what year of that contract is he in? How long left?