List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[DangerousD]

Ryan good for eagles at pick 60-70 in the draft?

I’m sure there are others, but point stands you don’t just hope to get them on the cheap

Ryan was pick 26

 

[Kouta2Fev]

I also really like Charlie, I was only pointing out that I think, the SOS doesn’t/didn’t pay overs line, isn’t entirely correct.

fair enough mate. I get your point. I think SOS overall did a great job with TPP. Too early to judge drafting

 

[Blue1980]

Our TPP was stuffed in 2015 when we won the spoon. You can debate SOS’s drafting but he fixed our TPP. Simple fact

I agree, but the situation is helped by having very few good players to pay now.

Admittedly we aren’t doing stupid things like giving fringe guys multiple year deals (though exceptions like the Polson 2 year deal are puzzling).

Signing up Cuningham until end of 2022 (I think) is needless as well, who would be poaching him?

 

[Blue1980]

no Daisy was moved on because he had a bad attitude and he pissed off someone he shouldn’t have

Well that’s just stupid then, he was still playing well.

 

[Kouta2Fev]

Well that’s just stupid then, he was still playing well.

yes but if he is a negative influence on team members and a source of conflict in the broader club...

 

[murphster]

Williams and Crouch/Wines, Hill for a second (hopefully).

I'd prefer Wines because IMO he is kept artificially heavy by Port's policy of having big inside mids, and he could slim down and potentially gain a bit of agility and a step or two of pace, because he's just too big, and Crouch is extremely injury prone.

The idea is, Walsh isn't slow, Cuningham isn't slow, Murphy isn't slow, Fisher isn't slow, Martin isn't slow, and Williams isn't slow; having Wines and Cripps isn't going to hurt us defensively if they're surrounded by enough speed. Stocker replaces Ed, Wines Murphy inside (with Murphy to either retire and LOB to play on the other wing, opposite Walsh, or to take that wing). We get the ball into Williams, Martin or LOB's hands, as distributors into forward 50; let these players be links between the fifty and the midfield, even if that's the only way we get the ball in. Make it a coaching rule; if you kick inside forward 50, you're dropped unless your name is one of these three.

Hill to take the other pocket and lay tackles and kick goals, in anticipation for him to move onto a flank or a wing if he's got the chops. I like Honey, but we need someone to replace Eddie within 2 seasons.

Exactly the point I made about Wines I think at one stage they had him playing at 92-93 kg which is ridiculous for his height, Russell can strip him back and get him doing some sprint training and he would be a different player, his strength is his power not his size which Port got all wrong, direct that power in the right way and look out both as a mid and a resting forward, the perfect addition to Cripps with the speed around them.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Carlton needs to play more street and **** the pretty off! See Dogs tonight stuff, hard and uncompromising. I feel we don't have anywhere enough street.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Oh and Curnow is not on $750k - it is up to $800k with a case of $600k. Only gets the extra $200k if he hits certain targets (games played, B/F finish etc).

no Daisy was moved on because he had a bad attitude and he pissed off someone he shouldn’t have

You're either 'in the know' or 'full of shit' K2F....which one is it?
If it's the former, what are your sources...and please don't insult us saying "the media"

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Daisy was gone the moment we had Newman in mind, with Doch coming back, SPS playing half back, Willow finally on the park their simply was no spot for A 33 yo hbf who is likely to spend half the year in the 2s

 

[Jeremias]

Do you think giving up 2 first round picks for Macrae is unreasonable?

It probably depends what picks they actually are, but as a general rule yes - and I think we can be much smarter about how we use our major assets on the trade table.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Daisy was gone the moment we had Newman in mind, with Doch coming back, SPS playing half back, Willow finally on the park their simply was no spot for A 33 yo hbf who is likely to spend half the year.
ItSoundsSpotOnTooMee

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Um, #6 + future 2nd rounder (#38) for Prestia + #24

Same year they got caddy for a 2nd off Geelong aswell I think

 

[Blue1980]

Ryan was pick 26

Ahh my mistake

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Exactly the point I made about Wines I think at one stage they had him playing at 92-93 kg which is ridiculous for his height, Russell can strip him back and get him doing some sprint training and he would be a different player, his strength is his power not his size which Port got all wrong, direct that power in the right way and look out both as a mid and a resting forward, the perfect addition to Cripps with the speed around them.

I think we need to scrap this idea of wines. Him and cripps in the same midfield would simply be too slow. It would look a lot like the crows midfield right now. Yeah they can win the ball but all plodders who don't hurt on the outside and teams with speed run rings around them.

Winning contested ball isn't our issue and we still have lots of upside in that area with fisher, kemp, setterfield, JSOS and dow still developing. The issue is maintaining possession once we win it which is primarily a skill & decision making issue. Outside ball users need to be our focus.

My idea is go for zac williams and push docherty into the midfield. His physique since he came back looks like a bonafide midfielder and i think weitering can general the defense.

 

[BlueJet]

Sounds easy. So why haven't we been able to do that. Eddie was drafted in 2004 and Milne last century.

Since 2004 Cameron and Papley were rookie picks but how many others were rookies. I'll give Garlett and Tippa which makes 4 in 15 drafts. You may find another one or two but it certainly isn't many.

I don't think they grow on trees and they certainly don't come regularly. If you can get your hands on one I reckon you go all in.

Did I ever say that it was easy? no.
Did I say that they grow on trees? no.
Did I say that we should turn our nose up at talented footballers wanting to join your club? no.
Why haven't we managed it? Our efforts at securing a small forward have comprised of rookie listing LeBois, bringing back Eddie or re-purposing Lamb & Wright. (essentially, we haven't prioritised small forwards beyond attempting to get Papley last offseason.)

FYI - the names listed were chosen as they represent the standout small forwards of the list decade or so,
Ill go further though, excluding those already discussed by Havuevaseentherain & I earlier in the thread:
Michael Walters: pick 53
Sam Gray: rookie draft
Jack Lonie: pick 41
Jamie Elliot: mature pre-selection
Willie Rioli: mature draftee pick 52
Puopolo: pick 66
Dahlhaus: rookie
Castagna : rookie
Z Landon: pick 56
Miers: pick 57 mature draftee
Butler: pick 67
L Murphy: rookie
Ned Mchenry: pick 16
Alex Sexton: pick 88
Robbie Gray: pick 55
Brent Daniels: pick 27
Butters: pick 12
Baker: rookie draft
L.Ryan: mature draftee pick 26
Hayward: pick 21

It's almost as though I'd looked all of this up prior to engaging in the discussion.

 

[BlueJet]

I think we need to scrap this idea of wines. Him and cripps in the same midfield would simply be too slow. It would look a lot like the crows midfield right now. Yeah they can win the ball but all plodders who don't hurt on the outside and teams with speed run rings around them.

Winning contested ball isn't our issue and we still have lots of upside in that area with fisher, kemp, setterfield, JSOS and dow still developing. The issue is maintaining possession once we win it which is primarily a skill & decision making issue. Outside ball users need to be our focus.

My idea is go for zac williams and push docherty into the midfield. His physique since he came back looks like a bonafide midfielder and i think weitering can general the defense.

You've lost me here mate - Wines offers us a considerable upgrade on other similarly slow mids that you've mentioned in Setterfield and JSOS.
Kemp has played predominately off a HBF to date, we hope that he can develop into a regular mid but there are no guarantees there. (TBH I see a bit of Nick Haynes in his game)

 

[katmanblue]

Yeah a bit I reckon

The plan was great, I just reckon we were a bit let down with qiai

Yeah great call, I'd rather give up a second for Hill and keep our first rather than vice versa for papely

Why not both?

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Kouta2Fev]

You're either 'in the know' or 'full of sh*t' K2F....which one is it?
If it's the former, what are your sources...and please don't insult us saying "the media"

such a friendly disposition - I will totally answer that. Let me put it this way - I have better things to do than make shit up for shits and giggles. I have a good relationship with someone in a senior position at the Club. From time to time they comment on things reported in the media to say that’s right or it’s crap. But what I get told would be a small subset of what actually goes on. Eg I couldn’t tell you who our trade or free agency targets are. I also know some of the players socially through involvement in a business club. See them once a quarter for 2-3 hours. There will be people much better informed than me. Last thing players want is to be asked info about internal things.

 

[Accidental genius]

Carlton needs to play more street and fu** the pretty off! See Dogs tonight stuff, hard and uncompromising. I feel we don't have anywhere enough street.

agree 100%. against dees our pressure was much better in the second quarter and onwards but still nowhere near the sort of pressure the dogs apply so well.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Our TPP was stuffed in 2015 when we won the spoon. You can debate SOS’s drafting but he fixed our TPP. Simple fact

stuffed is an exaggeration imo. In SOS’s first season we literally had so much money in our cap that we could take salary cap dumps. It needed work but was obviously not hard to fix. I know we moved players on/they wanted out but it wasn’t as if we done anything drastic. After that we had so much room in our cap we didn’t know what to do with it. That was five years ago. We are probably going to finish in a similar spot on the ladder after 5 years of mediocrity and have managed to spend 95%+ of the amount teams who have won premierships have. We have absolutely been overpaying some players. 5years, The salary cap floor and our results make that indisputable.

 

[Kouta2Fev]

stuffed is an exaggeration imo. In SOS’s first season we literally had so much money in our cap that we could take salary cap dumps. It needed work but was obviously not hard to fix. I know we moved players on/they wanted out but it wasn’t as if we done anything drastic. After that we had so much room in our cap we didn’t know what to do with it. That was five years ago. We are probably going to finish in a similar spot on the ladder after 5 years of mediocrity and have managed to spend 95%+ of the amount teams who have won premierships have. We have absolutely been overpaying some players. 5years, The salary cap floor and our results make that indisputable.

he had the guts to move on those players, take short term hits and keep things on plan. Don’t underestimate how hard that is.

I don’t think SOS is omnipotent - I disagreed with probably 30% of his draft choices. But on TPP he was excellent.

To give you an example - I was pissed when we passed on Flanders last year. I think Ned will be the second best player from that draft and the silky skilled mid we need. But there is a more than 30% chance I am wrong.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

he had the guts to move on those players, take short term hits and keep things on plan. Don’t underestimate how hard that is.

I don’t think SOS is omnipotent - I disagreed with probably 30% of his draft choices. But on TPP he was excellent.

To give you an example - I was pissed when we passed on Flanders last year. I think Ned will be the second best player from that draft and the silky skilled mid we need. But there is a more than 30% chance I am wrong.

I don’t think he done anything wrong but when you have a salary cap floor and you are at the bottom for 5 seasons then you have had to overpay someone.
I wanted us to take Flanders too though I would imagine statistically we done the right thing trading the pick, even if I didn’t like it.

 

[Blue1980]

You've lost me here mate - Wines offers us a considerable upgrade on other similarly slow mids that you've mentioned in Setterfield and JSOS.
Kemp has played predominately off a HBF to date, we hope that he can develop into a regular mid but there are no guarantees there. (TBH I see a bit of Nick Haynes in his game)

For at least a decade I’ve read about is shoehorning defenders or forwards or whoever to be mids. I can’t think of who it ever actually worked for.

 

[Blue1980]

I think we’ve been caught missing a trick and following an obsolete model, again.

The trend has changed since free agency that even guys who are under contract get traded to their preferred destination.

We assumed because we had heaps of cap room we’d land players, no matter how bad we were. We were very wrong and have the opposite problem where if we were paying on actual output we’d probably be fined for paying under the cap floor.

So here we are with a list with slightly more talent and upside than 2015. Better guys 23 or under than then but way less in the mid-late 20s range.

Only players we have in mid late 20s who will take us forward are cripps, Docherty and Martin.

We have progressed about as far as Melbourne did from 2008-13.

 

[Doro]

I think we’ve been caught missing a trick and following an obsolete model, again.

The trend has changed since free agency that even guys who are under contract get traded to their preferred destination.

We assumed because we had heaps of cap room we’d land players, no matter how bad we were. We were very wrong and have the opposite problem where if we were paying on actual output we’d probably be fined for paying under the cap floor.

So here we are with a list with slightly more talent and upside than 2015. Better guys 23 or under than then but way less in the mid-late 20s range.

Only players we have in mid late 20s who will take us forward are cripps, Docherty and Martin.

We have progressed about as far as Melbourne did from 2008-13.

I don't agree with this statement. 2015 we were an aging and awful list. The combination of Malthouse and Rogers in the recruiting/list management model was incompetent and the worst in the AFL. We progressed forward strongly towards competence in this area under Bolton and SOS, from which their is now a talented young core from which to build. Now it's up to Teague and Austin to fill the remaining gaps and take it from competence towards elite. Here's hoping they are up to it.