List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[HARKER]

Absolutely Coniglio would have been perfect. However, I was ultra bullish on the merits of Jack Martin, however his contribution to the team
and ultimately the list balance goes beyond even my expectation. He is a genuine front line midfielder not just a forward come pinch hitter.
Jack brings to us that bridging player between Murphy and Ed Curnow and our pack of talented young midfielders that we have longed for.

This ultimately detracts from the forward dynamic. I was sceptical of longevity of Eddie after a lack lustre pre season (and rep game). Always
lauded the club for bringing him back. It was the one decision I couldn't agree with SOS's stance. Blind Freddie could see how much he could
bring to the group, even with limited on field output. Like most rejoicing after last Saturday. We live in hope he can compete for this season
and next. I had hope after our drafting last year that one of the young, somewhat speculative draftees would produce, particularly as small
medium forwards. More than ever before, I now have confidence we have sufficient talent and importantly, commitment on the list to preclude
the absolute need to trade in a mature player. Honey is looking like the "pea", but Owies is quietly building a case as well. While more midfielder,
Philp could easily be seen as a pressure forward in his formative years, and even Phillips has shown plenty already to be optimistic about.

Back to the midfielders. While maturing a little slower than we would like, Setterfield, Dow and Stocker provide a quality maturing young
inside core. Walshy is already a staple and his role will be adapted over time to find the best fit/balance. Zac Fisher is a proven young talent,
however his size is an issue in ascertaining his ongoing role. Cuningham has become more forward, but is plenty talented through the midfield.
Gibbons is an adequate mid, guaranteed to give 100%. I still have faith that Kennedy could play a significant role, he looked so much more
mobile in the vision of the Cats scratch match (remember the physical progression of one Daisy Thomas). Jack Silvagni may be being groomed
as our post EC stopper. LOB is a banker on the wing, more when than if he locks down a permanent spot. The x factor comes in the form of
Sam Philp and Brodie Kemp. Philp has pretty much shown himself to be AFL ready, banging down the door. Pace, endurance and is rapidly
honing his skills and spatial awareness, to an elite level. (I have a fear he will be held back too long to make room for Fisher, then Dow). Then
next season's fresh new addition in Kemp who could start at either end but is set on becoming an elite midfielder. Throw in Sam Ramsay, currently
"relegated" to the backline in "the twos" and perhaps Cottrell and we have a "pantry" bursting at the seams. Could I suggest that the cake we
are cooking will be so bloody tasty that we won't need to add any cream (trades).

Our new players in the recruitment team will want to score a target, but I can't help thinking that with the list we have and their impending
maturity the draft should be our very best friend.

Seriously, our only obvious needs are generation next, as in a project ruck and possibly a big bopper KPD to develop for when Jones and back
up Levi are finished. I have faith in Marchbank, but he is undersized as a key, and am optimistic with BSOS. Lists are going to be cut so with
a need to cull, I would be parting ways with Macreadie and reluctantly Goddard, thus the need to draft another. I will say that if Papley was
to be gettable for our first pick, he would certainly provide an immediate and then long term upgrade, as well as complementing rather than
competing with our young guns. Is it wrong that I see our midfield kids going straight past a Crouch or Wines within their first contracts, thus
stymieing our TPP schedule? I have previously trumpeted Williams as a free agent, but geez is one ugly dude

Martin is a very good player and he could be effective everywhere, but he did come to us as predominantly a forward......unless he's lying about it.
He'd likely have not been asked to take centre bounce duties, had have Murphy not been so poor, the week before.
He works up and down the ground well, but I don't see him as being a first hands to the ball player and nothing last week suggested that would be the case but....Maybe he will be.

Anyway, the point is that the club best crank up its development of the array of players we brought to the club as midfielders.
I recall starting a thread about exactly this issue: Other than Cripps, which other three mids will be first call midfielders...and not the odd player who may just be thrown in for rotation needs. It's Cripps and then........? Walsh will go into the midfield of course, but I'm just not sure that's his best starting position.

I guess we can start arguing about it all again, but the fact is that there's little there to say who it will actually be, next year and beyond...and if we are going to bring in let's say a couple of midfielders, then maybe we simply haven't the faith in what we have. It will be interesting.

 

[Gethelred]

I'm just going to come out and say it: I don't see how Papley serves as a Betts replacement.

Papley would be a good get, because he's a hard matchup. Solid overhead, capable of finding contested ball and giving it into space, knows where the goals are. He's essentially Toby Greene lite, without the midfield chops and the thuggishness, and he could very well acquire the midfield chops.

But Betts isn't just a position on the field. He's distribution, x-factor, selflessness and time. Papley's a gun in the making, but he doesn't have Eddie's evasiveness or his goalsense, and while he can buy you a goal at times, Eddie's main attribute is bringing the absurd to the game. His pass to get the pill to Cripps of the outside of the boot is an example of this.

So, while I still think we should go for Papley, we need to develop a player akin to Betts from within again. And we need to be aware that the second that Betts drops off - and he will - no-one will be able to completely fill the void.

 

[Macca43]

I'm just going to come out and say it: I don't see how Papley serves as a Betts replacement.

Papley would be a good get, because he's a hard matchup. Solid overhead, capable of finding contested ball and giving it into space, knows where the goals are. He's essentially Toby Greene lite, without the midfield chops and the thuggishness, and he could very well acquire the midfield chops.

But Betts isn't just a position on the field. He's distribution, x-factor, selflessness and time. Papley's a gun in the making, but he doesn't have Eddie's evasiveness or his goalsense, and while he can buy you a goal at times, Eddie's main attribute is bringing the absurd to the game. His pass to get the pill to Cripps of the outside of the boot is an example of this.

So, while I still think we should go for Papley, we need to develop a player akin to Betts from within again. And we need to be aware that the second that Betts drops off - and he will - no-one will be able to completely fill the void.

I agree with you point but I doubt we can "develop" what Betts provides - its largely natural talent.

 

[HARKER]

I'm just going to come out and say it: I don't see how Papley serves as a Betts replacement.

Papley would be a good get, because he's a hard matchup. Solid overhead, capable of finding contested ball and giving it into space, knows where the goals are. He's essentially Toby Greene lite, without the midfield chops and the thuggishness, and he could very well acquire the midfield chops.

But Betts isn't just a position on the field. He's distribution, x-factor, selflessness and time. Papley's a gun in the making, but he doesn't have Eddie's evasiveness or his goalsense, and while he can buy you a goal at times, Eddie's main attribute is bringing the absurd to the game. His pass to get the pill to Cripps of the outside of the boot is an example of this.

So, while I still think we should go for Papley, we need to develop a player akin to Betts from within again. And we need to be aware that the second that Betts drops off - and he will - no-one will be able to completely fill the void.

I feel sometimes we look at like-for-likes and it doesn't always have to work that way.
Papley isn't a crumber, but he does create and he's strong...very strong. That's a good start for mine.
Having said that though, it would be hard to ignore a good crumbing forward with the set-up we have.

Martin CCurnow Papley
McGovern McKay + a Walters or Cameron would make for quite a nice balance....one can dream.

 

[Gethelred]

I agree with you point but I doubt we can "develop" what Betts provides - its largely natural talent.

We have Betts; we know he trains for ****ing hours a week to do what he does, and has done to get there. There are plenty of player who he has worked with to become better.

That's the thing that kind of annoys me when it comes up. There's nothing innate about what Betts does and has done, beyond being good at footy. He's worked his arse off to do this stuff. Find someone else with similar traits and the appropriate work ethic, and see what we can do.

 

[Macca43]

We have Betts; we know he trains for ******* hours a week to do what he does, and has done to get there. There are plenty of player who he has worked with to become better.

That's the thing that kind of annoys me when it comes up. There's nothing innate about what Betts does and has done, beyond being good at footy. He's worked his arse off to do this stuff. Find someone else with similar traits and the appropriate work ethic, and see what we can do.

That is simply not true, yes he works bloody hard, yes he loves to bring others into the game but there is plenty that is innate about what he does.

"Find someone else with similar traits and the appropriate work ethic" Aren't these things innate?

 

[F_therest]

I'm just going to come out and say it: I don't see how Papley serves as a Betts replacement.

Papley would be a good get, because he's a hard matchup. Solid overhead, capable of finding contested ball and giving it into space, knows where the goals are. He's essentially Toby Greene lite, without the midfield chops and the thuggishness, and he could very well acquire the midfield chops.

But Betts isn't just a position on the field. He's distribution, x-factor, selflessness and time. Papley's a gun in the making, but he doesn't have Eddie's evasiveness or his goalsense, and while he can buy you a goal at times, Eddie's main attribute is bringing the absurd to the game. His pass to get the pill to Cripps of the outside of the boot is an example of this.

So, while I still think we should go for Papley, we need to develop a player akin to Betts from within again. And we need to be aware that the second that Betts drops off - and he will - no-one will be able to completely fill the void.

Eddie is unique, no one is exactly like him which is why he's so good.

But Papley definitely has skills in distribution, x-factor, selflessness and time that you used to describe Eddie.
Maybe not quite as good, but he has other attributes better than Eddie like goal kicking from 40m+ and the ability to play a bit of midfield to make up for it.

A specialist small forward would be nice if we can get one, but Papley helps both our forward line and midfield...so if I had to choose ONE player, it would be him. Papley/Martin/Cunners swapping between forward and midfield would be devastating and keep the opposition guessing. Papley is more a forward than a midfielder anyway so would likely play at least 80% forward and only pinch hit in the middle.

 

[Gethelred]

That is simply not true, yes he works bloody hard, yes he loves to bring others into the game but there is plenty that is innate about what he does.

"Find someone else with similar traits and the appropriate work ethic" Aren't these things innate?

A lot of what eddie does is about how he has trained himself. He baulks players because he knows he needs space and time; he developed that by training it. He kicks ridiculous passes because he doesn't have the range, and he drilled that too. He practiced snaps and bananas and left foot versions of all of it to the point where he could thread a needle.

The whole package is unique, but the question of how much of it is innate versus trained is not one any of us are qualified to answer. What I'm suggesting is we give it our best shot. We could do with Eddie Betts lite for the next 10 years, no?

 

[Macca43]

A lot of what eddie does is about how he has trained himself. He baulks players because he knows he needs space and time; he developed that by training it. He kicks ridiculous passes because he doesn't have the range, and he drilled that too. He practiced snaps and bananas and left foot versions of all of it to the point where he could thread a needle.

The whole package is unique, but the question of how much of it is innate versus trained is not one any of us are qualified to answer. What I'm suggesting is we give it our best shot. We could do with Eddie Betts lite for the next 10 years, no?

No matter how much most other people train they would not be able to do what Eddie does.

We could do with an Eddie Betts clone for another 10 years but I would happily take Papley instead, just like I could do with winning $1m but I would happily a guaranteed take $500k.

 

[TheVapors]

I certainly don’t think Papley and Betts are similar players, but they don’t need to be. It’s about creating a forward structure that works. Papley might not bring the same attributes, but he does bring attributes that would be very useful in our forward structure. No, it’s not like for like, but it still gives us a damaging forward who brings experience and skills.

 

[F_therest]

A lot of talk about Wines/Papley/B Crouch but what about Gaff?

According to Tom Morris' article: https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...g/news-story/69725b5272c62b4605e03f4850af48f0

ANDREW GAFF

Status: Unrestricted free agent

As reported by Jay Clark in the Herald Sun last year, a clause in Gaff’s long-term deal allows him to exercise his rights at the end of 2020 and walk to a club of his choice. If not, he will remain an Eagle for life. It’s almost crunch time for the winger.


Not a big-bodied mid but probably the best midfielder in general who may be gettable. He'd come free as well as an UFA and would replace Murphy who is 32 and probably has 1 more year at most. He's 28...offer him 5 years to get it done.

Papley and Gaff anyone?

 

[HARKER]

Papley and Gaff anyone?

Perfect. Even better than perfect.
Why aren't we talking about Gaff?

We have a few big bodies in Cripps and that guy we brought in....Stocker.
Build Setterfield up if we still want this big body. Gaff is the one..............Get Gaff

 

[F_therest]

Perfect. Even better than perfect.
Why aren't we talking about Gaff?

I think most people just forgot he has that clause in his contract which essentially makes him an UFA. I did until i read that article.

I'm all about Papley and Gaff now.

Trade 2020 1st rounder for Papley (in a compromised draft we may need to sweeten the deal) and Gaff for free. That would be the dream trade period scenario.
Given the money we were throwing at Coniglio you'd think we could afford both.

 

[HARKER]

I think most people just forgot he has that clause in his contract which essentially makes him an UFA. I did until i read that article.

I'm all about Papley and Gaff now.

Trade 2020 1st rounder for Papley (in a compromised draft we may need to sweeten the deal) and Gaff for free. That would be the dream trade period scenario.

It's Papley and Gaff and F the rest

 

[blue healer]

But you have to add ECurnow, Rowe and Casboult to that list. That makes it so much better.

The Hughes/Rogers wash-up wasn't great to say the least but for this exercise...and to be fair...we do have to add back players that were traded out.
Yarran, Menzel, Tuohy, Jacobs, Gibbs was '06, Robinson & Garlett were ousted for indiscretions. Still not great though.

A number of extremely compromised drafts in that period as well.

 

[HARKER]

There's one thing we don't seem to talk about, or maybe don't want to:
Which young players are we willing to trade out? We're not going to be able to keep them all and especially so, should we reel in a couple of premium gets.

The CFC like Marchbank, but I can see a situation where we may trade.
O'Brien may quite easily find himself without a spot in the team and Sydney may still be keen.
Could W.A. lure Fisher back?
What about SPS? Does he want to be a HBF'er?

Something will give whether it be this year or the next? I have little doubt.

A number of extremely compromised drafts in that period as well.

There were lots of errors and some misfortunes as well (Giles=injury, Menzel=personal issues, Yarran=personal issues) but it was a pretty poor showing regardless. I think there was a lot more involved also - Like a lack of development for starters.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Perfect. Even better than perfect.
Why aren't we talking about Gaff?

We have a few big bodies in Cripps and that guy we brought in....Stocker.
Build Setterfield up if we still want this big body. Gaff is the one..............Get Gaff

Will Gaff be part of our next premiership in 2035?

 

[F_therest]

Will Gaff be part of our next premiership in 2035?

Gaff could easily be in our next premiership side.

Add Gaff & Papley, plus improvement from kids, plus more time under Teague, plus getting Charlie back...we could be looking at being contenders in 2022. Not out of the question. A similar rise to Brisbane under a new coach and adding some stars to their list.

 

[james95]

Has anyone been watching Gaff this year?
He seems to me to just be resorting to getting the ball and whacking it on his boot down the line. Is that what we want? We have plenty of blokes who can do that. It's all well and good being able to get the pill 30 times a game but if you dont do anything productive with it what good is it?
The Brisbane mids didnt pay him any attention at all, they were so focused on blokes like Kelly and Shuey the damaging ones.
Gaff had 30 disposals on Saturday night yet only 5 of those ended up being part of a play leading to a scoring opportunity.
I personally dont think its worth the $$$ we would be giving up for a 29 year old by the time next season comes around.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

As much as I rate Gaff, he's not quite the player we're looking for, and he's just outside of our age range IMO.

Although we don't need anymore slow, plodding midfielders i.e Crouch, Cripps still needs a bit of a chop out and Gaff is not the man for the job. He is as outside as they come, consistently leading the league in uncontested possessions, and the most tackles he's ever averaged in a year is 3.

Again, great player, but not one we're screaming out for, and juuuuuuuust out of our ideal age range.

 

[Own The Future]

It's Papley and Gaff and F the rest

All in on Papley, but I’m also wary of Gaff’s age when it comes to a 4-5 yr deal. He’s 28 now, and as more of an outside player will likely be effective later than many mids. But how often do players in their early 30s justify the $ he’d no doubt command to leave West Coast?
Is he a durable player? I ask honestly as I’m not sure. If so, then he fills exactly what we need.

 

[Jeremias]

All in on Papley, but I’m also wary of Gaff’s age when it comes to a 4-5 yr deal. He’s 28 now, and as more of an outside player will likely be effective later than many mids. But how often do players in their early 30s justify the $ he’d no doubt command to leave West Coast?
Is he a durable player? I ask honestly as I’m not sure. If so, then he fills exactly what we need.

Gaff is as durable as they come. Has missed 9 games in 9 years since his debut season, most of which were due to his suspension a few years back for breaking Brayshaw's jaw.

 

[gbatman]

Still think target number 1 should be a centerman who hits in hard and just keeps going. Gee it made a difference with Martin going in there and providing some physicality and intensity. We're going to need him in there doing that until we find players up to that level who can do it. Would love to release him forward.

I'm not sure who we can get but that and Papley would be good.

I think wait until the end of the year and see where we are at, who knows who will come through and step up.

 

[HARKER]

Still think target number 1 should be a centerman who hits in hard and just keeps going. Gee it made a difference with Martin going in there and providing some physicality and intensity. We're going to need him in there doing that until we find players up to that level who can do it. Would love to release him forward.

I'm not sure who we can get but that and Papley would be good.

I think wait until the end of the year and see where we are at, who knows who will come through and step up.

I may be wrong, but I feel we saw things we didn't really see.
Martins best works was not in the centre but in the backline and forward of centre against Geelong.
It was Cripps and then Ed, who provided the grunt.

Happy to be proven wrong, but this is what I saw,

 

[therubbernub]

One limitation of relying on the draftees coming through is that generally they'll only replace the senior players going out the other end.

Fair point. But all I am saying is there are players already on our list that can either go into the midfield or small forward roll. We need patience to see who is going to take the next step. At the moment I get the impression that most assume that players like Fisher, Dow, Cuningham, setterfield are , if not busts, just 'good ordinary footballers" .