List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[Red Bull]

Adelaide are looking at a bottom 3 finish - they'll take a top 3 pick as FA compo for Crouch and run.

I’ll bet they would too.
But who is going to pay the amount required to trigger that level of compensation for an ordinary injury prone player ?
I understand he comes for free trade wise but i hope we concentrate on established quality A grade players of need and are prepared to pay for what we really want.

 

[Blue__Balls]

We would need to be offering around $800,000 to rigger a band 1 though and I think that’s the posters point. I’m on the fence, but if he has a solid year, I’m all for him.

I think ABOD's point was that the only way Adelaide don't match and force a trade is if we offer a contract they can't responsibly match. See Dangerfield to Geelong, who had a rigid payment structure to fit him in to - Adelaide were able to threaten to match the offer and in doing so, forced Geelong to give them more in a trade than they would have got as compensation (Band 1 would have been Pick 13 that year, Geelong had Pick 9).

If Adelaide finish 16th (generous) and we finish 10th, the best they could get by forcing a trade would be Pick 9 and change, when they could just take Pick 4 (giving them back to back picks at the pointy end of the draft).

The question would be what contract we'd need to offer to trigger band 1 compo, but given Adelaide's troubles at the moment I wouldn't be surprised if they got a bit of the Frawley Treatment.

 

[F_therest]

Brayden Sier will be on the market again after this year if he doesn’t get regular senior game time (according to his sister).

He could be a cheaper option if we’re looking to bring in bigger bodied options to support Cripps and our kids in the middle.

She seems to think he’ll end up in Sydney though where he won’t be in the spot light as much and he can continue to play games of local basketball and smoke cigarettes relatively undetected.

The guy doesn't seem very professional...why would we chase him?

Also he's not a proven A grader who will help Cripps and our team immediately...there's actually every chance he doesnt even make our best 22. He doesn't project to be any better than Setterfield/Stocker/Kemp IMO.

We have enough 'potential', we need someone proven.

 

[iAsbestos]

Brayden Sier will be on the market again after this year if he doesn’t get regular senior game time (according to his sister).

He could be a cheaper option if we’re looking to bring in bigger bodied options to support Cripps and our kids in the middle.

She seems to think he’ll end up in Sydney though where he won’t be in the spot light as much and he can continue to play games of local basketball and smoke cigarettes relatively undetected.

Shoe in for Essendon

 

[Gethelred]

I can have a look at every centre square stoppage, but I don't remember Martin being particularly influential.
I keep seeing Cripps and then some ECurnow but not so much Martin.
I do recall some good play in the back-line and again some good ball movement going forward. I'll have another look and get back on this one.

First hands to the ball at centre bounces -

QTR. 1 - Cripps * 3.....ECurnow * 2.....Ratag.....* 1......Pittonet * 1
Martin: Good run into the forward line from the first stoppage. Didn't touch the ball in the centre.

QTR. 2 - Cripps * 4....Dangerfield * 2.....Setterfield * 1......Pittonet * 1
Martin: Dangerfield ran away from him. Martin second hands to the ball twice.

QTR. 3 - Cripps * 2.....ECurnow * 1....Ablett * 1....Selwood * 1.......Dangerfield * 1
Martin: Nothing stood out at stoppages.

QTR. 4 - Cripps * 2.....Dangerfield * 2.....Duncan * 1.....Martin * 1
Martin: Good movement around the ball.

There you go.

Did your viewing take into account tackles preventing easy exit?

I don't disagree with your assertion that Martin's main possessions came as part of transition out of defensive 50 or into forward 50. I saw his role - and Setterfield's - as providing tackling pressure around a stoppage, and it clearly played it's role in making Geelong panic for 3 terms.

 

[therubbernub]

We don't know how it may yet pan out but why Hately and Caldwell?
Let's say we went that way and managed to do the deal. What does that do to the squad and have we really improved the whole?
Yes, we'd have more young mids, but is the team immediately better other than for us to be able to say we have great depth...and then what happens with this great young midfield depth.....It does exactly what we're seeing with GWS now. Players wanting out for opportunity.

Which good mid has left GWS and become quality? O'Rourke.....Ahern....Kennedy....Setterfield....Bonar? Steele maybe.
It's OK....I agree that the above doesn't make a real statement, but just thought to drop it in.

If we did reach for a couple of young mids, it would have to be under the consideration that they'll be starting 22 players and then what?
Having plenty of something doesn't mean they'll all be able to play and the only consideration would be: Have we vastly improved the squad with these additions or are we just stock-piling young talent for the sake of it?

Devon Smith?
Dylan shiel?

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Devon Smith?
Dylan shiel?

Adam Treloar, Taylor Adams, Jack Steele. Yeah there's been some misses but just as many hits.

 

[La Dispute]

I liked Sier in 2018 - his back half of the year and finals series was impressive, then had injuries and form issues last year.

I'd forgotten about him, but he could be a genuinely good bargain basement pick up. Same draft as Weitering, McKay etc so still improving, but has a reasonable amount of AFL experience behind him.

Seems an obvious upgrade on Kennedy with his clean hands at the stoppages. Genuinely big unit too.

 

[Thehurdle]

We don't know how it may yet pan out but why Hately and Caldwell?
Let's say we went that way and managed to do the deal. What does that do to the squad and have we really improved the whole?
Yes, we'd have more young mids, but is the team immediately better other than for us to be able to say we have great depth...and then what happens with this great young midfield depth.....It does exactly what we're seeing with GWS now. Players wanting out for opportunity.

Which good mid has left GWS and become quality? O'Rourke.....Ahern....Kennedy....Setterfield....Bonar? Steele maybe.
It's OK....I agree that the above doesn't make a real statement, but just thought to drop it in.

If we did reach for a couple of young mids, it would have to be under the consideration that they'll be starting 22 players and then what?
Having plenty of something doesn't mean they'll all be able to play and the only consideration would be: Have we vastly improved the squad with these additions or are we just stock-piling young talent for the sake of it?

All valid questions and points. Taking them slightly out of order:

1. I was suggesting one of Hatley and Caldwell. Both would be great of course. Most importantly with a hard and senior mid.
2. In terms of mids who have left GWS - Taylor Adams and Adam Treloar are well above average players. I agree with your point that GWS have selected well and mostly retained the better half of their draft crop.
3. But that’s the point - if you have a bunch of talented 18-21 yo’s you get to know them really well and pick And generally retain the best. I see no harm in trying to replicate what GWS have done to some extent given where we are. I say this as its really hard to say who will thrive and who will plateau. Right now I have no idea who will be best out of Kemp, Philp, Fisher, Walsh, Setterfield, Walsh, Stocker SPS etc. One thing I do know is both Caldwell and Hately look strong prospects and if I could I would love to add them into the mix.
4. I wouldn’t limit us to looking at Hatley and Caldwell. But I see they are OOC, and I expect GWS are under salary cap pressure. In fairness no club is allowed to sign anyone at the moment so it might be a false understanding to regard anyone as being OOC. Loads of players will be formally OOC but have an understanding with the club of what they will sign once they are able to.
5. We also need to allow for Simmo, Murphy and Ed retiring in coming years.

I don’t want to sound dogmatic about this, and respect the view that we‘re nearly ready now and just need a couple of more senior players. That’s where the club largely is - we’re one hard senior mid and a small forward or 2 away, so you’re on the right side of the debate as they mostly see it. Again they’re not dogmatic about it - they are open to both drafting and trading. They KEY is NOT TO OVERPAY - $$ or picks. If we had a choice, and we may not, my slight inclination is to go with a mix. Partly this is informed by the fact very senior mids with 2 good years left in them will be much cheaper or free to acquire.

 

[HARKER]

Did your viewing take into account tackles preventing easy exit?

I don't disagree with your assertion that Martin's main possessions came as part of transition out of defensive 50 or into forward 50. I saw his role - and Setterfield's - as providing tackling pressure around a stoppage, and it clearly played it's role in making Geelong panic for 3 terms.

Not specifically but Martin wasn't really in positions to assert himself in stoppages in any way.
I was clear as to what I put forward and we can go and do a lot of imagining here and there.....but I only put forward clear facts.

That's in no way to suggest Martin didn't play well because he did, but it just may not have been n he way some of us may remember.

BTW - Having watched all stoppages, the work Cripps did was phenomenal. I was exhausted just watching him

 

[HARKER]

All valid questions and points. Taking them slightly out of order:

1. I was suggesting one of Hatley and Caldwell. Both would be great of course. Most importantly with a hard and senior mid.
2. In terms of mids who have left GWS - Taylor Adams and Adam Treloar are well above average players. I agree with your point that GWS have selected well and mostly retained the better half of their draft crop.
3. But that’s the point - if you have a bunch of talented 18-21 yo’s you get to know them really well and pick And generally retain the best. I see no harm in trying to replicate what GWS have done to some extent given where we are. I say this as its really hard to say who will thrive and who will plateau. Right now I have no idea who will be best out of Kemp, Philp, Fisher, Walsh, Setterfield, Walsh, Stocker SPS etc. One thing I do know is both Caldwell and Hately look strong prospects and if I could I would love to add them into the mix.
4. I wouldn’t limit us to looking at Hatley and Caldwell. But I see they are OOC, and I expect GWS are under salary cap pressure. In fairness no club is allowed to sign anyone at the moment so it might be a false understanding to regard anyone as being OOC. Loads of players will be formally OOC but have an understanding with the club of what they will sign once they are able to.
5. We also need to allow for Simmo, Murphy and Ed retiring in coming years.

I don’t want to sound dogmatic about this, and respect the view that we‘re nearly ready now and just need a couple of more senior players. That’s where the club largely is - we’re one hard senior mid and a small forward or 2 away, so you’re on the right side of the debate as they mostly see it. Again they’re not dogmatic about it - they are open to both drafting and trading. They KEY is NOT TO OVERPAY - $$ or picks. If we had a choice, and we may not, my slight inclination is to go with a mix. Partly this is informed by the fact very senior mids with 2 good years left in them will be much cheaper or free to acquire.

Yes, Treloar and Adams. I just didn't go that far back but you're right.

We're just spit-balling here and there's no harm being done.
I don't know as fact what we'll do, probably as much as other may not.

Some things just seem...right.
Last year a net of Coniglio, Papley and Martin made sense at the start of the year as much as they made sense at the end of the year.

To me though, this year a 20y.o. mid and a slow 'big-body' (BCrouch) doesn't make sense....for now. That's all I have

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

If I am running the club, I wouldn't be giving Kennedy a new contract/put him up for trade

It is a bit rough on Bam Bam, who strikes me as a terrific lad, but he doesn't appear to be part of our best 22 anymore, and probably deserves a shot at another club where he would be more assured of getting senior games.

Just my opinion, gotta take the player's best interests as well as list balance/management into consideration.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Yes, Treloar and Adams. I just didn't go that far back but you're right.

We're just spit-balling here and there's no harm being done.
I don't know as fact what we'll do, probably as much as other may not.

Some things just seem...right.
Last year a net of Coniglio, Papley and Martin made sense at the start of the year as much as they made sense at the end of the year.

To me though, this year a 20y.o. mid and a slow 'big-body' (BCrouch) doesn't make sense....for now. That's all I have

We lost out on Papley and Cogs, but we also managed to unearth a massive and unexpected diamond in the rough in Pittonet and got Martin for free
I rate last year's draft and trade period an outstanding success for the club, esp as we managed to get such a prodigious talent in Brodie Kemp, who easily would have gone in the top 5, if not 3 of his draft class if not for his ACL.

I dare say 2019 could possibly be SOS' finest haul for us since the outstanding 2015 draft and trade period.

The stuff with Cogs is no fault of ours or Silvagni's, but he was back on top form in his final year in the job.

 

[Gethelred]

If I am running the club, I wouldn't be giving Kennedy a new contract/put him up for trade

It is a bit rough on Bam Bam, who strikes me as a terrific lad, but he doesn't appear to be part of our best 22 anymore, and probably deserves a shot at another club where he would be more assured of getting senior games.

Just my opinion, gotta take the player's best interests as well as list balance/management into consideration.

It's not a bad idea, but you've got to know that there is simply no value in trading him at present, and the second he gets to a club that can use someone who isn't of KPP height but is very strong overhead and on the lead (coupled with being a very safe set shot) he'll go nuclear.

There is no way in hell we get what he's worth via a trade. Better that we keep him around. He's a good option to have as a forward (in case one of Gov, Cas or Charlie gets injured) and he could all of a sudden work his way into a midfield position if he gets some continuity.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

It's not a bad idea, but you've got to know that there is simply no value in trading him at present, and the second he gets to a club that can use someone who isn't of KPP height but is very strong overhead and on the lead (coupled with being a very safe set shot) he'll go nuclear.

There is no way in hell we get what he's worth via a trade. Better that we keep him around. He's a good option to have as a forward (in case one of Gov, Cas or Charlie gets injured) and he could all of a sudden work his way into a midfield position if he gets some continuity.

You are probably right, but unless he starts getting games in the seniors soon; I Suspect he may ask for a trade for more opportunities.

If we could get a future 2nd round pick (highly doubtful) I would pull the trigger on that trade..

As I said, I like Bam Bam, just seems like he doesn't fit into Teague's future plans..

 

[La Dispute]

It's not a bad idea, but you've got to know that there is simply no value in trading him at present, and the second he gets to a club that can use someone who isn't of KPP height but is very strong overhead and on the lead (coupled with being a very safe set shot) he'll go nuclear.

There is no way in hell we get what he's worth via a trade. Better that we keep him around. He's a good option to have as a forward (in case one of Gov, Cas or Charlie gets injured) and he could all of a sudden work his way into a midfield position if he gets some continuity.

He's the perfect 3rd/4th tall, but obviously going to be limited by how we allocate gametime currently. I don't think he will ever be a player who makes or breaks a game, which is why he will never have a heap of currency, but you're right in that if we let him go at the end of next season we will get absolutely nothing in return.

At worst he is a handy depth player, and when the NB's resume he is a good target to have up forward but then also push through the midfield. I really hope we are beyond the point of just ousting players because their ceiling are perceived as being too low. Having some effortful players who have do one or two things really well is a good reason why Richmond have become so good.

 

[La Dispute]

You are probably right, but unless he starts getting games in the seniors soon; I Suspect he may ask for a trade for more opportunities.

If we could get a future 2nd round pick (highly doubtful) I would pull the trigger on that trade..

As I said, I like Bam Bam, just seems like he doesn't fit into Teague's future plans..

I just don't think we would get much. He wanted to come to Carlton for more midfield opportunities, and has been really unsuccessful when given gametime there. I'm not sure if other list managers have seen his games up forward, but it's probably not enough to throw anything significant at him for.

 

[Gethelred]

You are probably right, but unless he starts getting games in the seniors soon; I Suspect he may ask for a trade for more opportunities.

If we could get a future 2nd round pick (highly doubtful) I would pull the trigger on that trade..

As I said, I like Bam Bam, just seems like he doesn't fit into Teague's future plans..

It depends on where that second falls as to whether a trade is realistic. If it is earlier than pick 25, I'd probably make that trade. If it was later than pick 35, I'd be telling them to piss off.

I agree with La Dispute.

 

[F_therest]

It depends on where that second falls as to whether a trade is realistic. If it is earlier than pick 25, I'd probably make that trade. If it was later than pick 35, I'd be telling them to piss off.

I agree with La Dispute.

For me it's probably more about how he would fit in our list and if he can help us make a move.
Eg If trading him somehow helps us get Wines (say, using the draft pick), or if the money it frees up helps us afford Papley & Gaff.

Unless moving him on helps us get a big fish like those guys, i'd definitely keep him as forward/midfield depth...he's worth more to us than what we'd get in a trade directly. Pick 25 in such a compromised draft isn't much chop.

He's probably quite unlucky we have McGovern & JSOS to play that third/fourth tall forward position ahead of him...could probably get more opportunities at another club.

 

[DangerousD]

It's not a bad idea, but you've got to know that there is simply no value in trading him at present, and the second he gets to a club that can use someone who isn't of KPP height but is very strong overhead and on the lead (coupled with being a very safe set shot) he'll go nuclear.

There is no way in hell we get what he's worth via a trade. Better that we keep him around. He's a good option to have as a forward (in case one of Gov, Cas or Charlie gets injured) and he could all of a sudden work his way into a midfield position if he gets some continuity.

Sounds good in theory, I’m not sure why he’d go nuclear at a club who could use the skills mentioned, we are a club desperate for that p,Ayer and he isn’t even in the conversation.
Whilst we need players who can step in, in case of injury, if he’s not getting a game, even when we have injuries, he will simply look elsewhere.

Im very interested to see who we bring in, if Harry is out.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

With shrinking lists I would be shocked if any other club would have any interest in Kennedy atm.

 

[katmanblue]

I just don't think we would get much. He wanted to come to Carlton for more midfield opportunities, and has been really unsuccessful when given gametime there. I'm not sure if other list managers have seen his games up forward, but it's probably not enough to throw anything significant at him for.

Poor bloke hasn't had a run at it without injury. Did his ankle in his first quarter for the club and then Bolton was all about making player learn to endure.

He played injured that whole year (from memory) and just couldn't get near it.

Let's see how he goes this year before writing him off. Just needs to stay healthy.

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Gethelred]

Sounds good in theory, I’m not sure why he’d go nuclear at a club who could use the skills mentioned, we are a club desperate for that p,Ayer and he isn’t even in the conversation.
Whilst we need players who can step in, in case of injury, if he’s not getting a game, even when we have injuries, he will simply look elsewhere.

Im very interested to see who we bring in, if Harry is out.

Mihocek is precisely that player.

We don't have space for that player because (unlike the clubs that do) we have a full set of KPF, if not almost too many.

Kennedy, on what he's shown for us up forward, could be another club's focal point, or second tall. You plant him in Collingwood's forward 50, Richmond's forward 50; any side that lacks a true target, and he can play that role.

I don't think we're as desperate for that role as we are for just goals period. We are more in need of a decent amount of time injury free to build list cohesion together than we are a fourth target to complement the three we already have.

 

[smashbox gill]

Not specifically but Martin wasn't really in positions to assert himself in stoppages in any way.
I was clear as to what I put forward and we can go and do a lot of imagining here and there.....but I only put forward clear facts.

That's in no way to suggest Martin didn't play well because he did, but it just may not have been n he way some of us may remember.

BTW - Having watched all stoppages, the work Cripps did was phenomenal. I was exhausted just watching him

Maybe his impact can not be reflected in stats but from my viewing he was massive in the middle with his pressure and intensity.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

From what I've seen of Kennedy he's slower and less agile than any of our key forwards. Doesn't really make him a medium forward, just a really short slow key forward.

He needs to get a chance to move past his injury issues and see if he can regain some speed and agility.