List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[DangerousD]

JSOS could go in there should Cripps need a break. He certainly makes us a better team, and with all of our tall forwards he is certainly one that can play in a different position.

Ive had discussion with many people here that, CAS keeps his spot next year, even with Charlie, Harry and Gov fit, people talking of him playing off the bench. Then we have lots saying Marchbank comes straight back in and lots saying SOS straight back in.

Regardless of where they play, people have to go out and if we are bringing in 3 tall players, most of which are slow, we can’t be cutting smaller, faster players to bring them in, we are slow already.

My concern is, how it all fits. Also SOS needs to improve his game to become a mid

 

[CJMB]

I think our lack of effective wings is more of an issue. İn our losses, we are often getting out-worked and are getting outnumbered around the ball.

We need two-way runners who can kick.

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I think our wings are also holding their positions further out, as an outlet option, rather than getting involved as much as the opposition. Part of why our wingers are typically having lower disposals than their counterparts week in week out

 

[DangerousD]

Start at $700 base, plus incentives

I don’t think it’s enough at all. A bit tough considering I don’t know the incentives.

I am trying to figure out what he will get if he stays, say $600,000, he’s worth more, but they have other priorities that demand higher $$$$.

He has always been happy at the Giants and is a NSW man, I don’t think an increase of $100,000-$150,000 is enough to tempt someone away from a club that plays finals every year.

It would be different if you removed the chance of success if he stayed.

 

[katmanblue]

SOS to start in the square with Cripps, Setters and Pit? I haven’t seen a slower midfield.

SOS is yet to have a 20 possession game and a 3rd of his games gets less than 10 touches, from that to starting midfield is doubtful

I meant as a defensive stopper and body to free up the other two. So not till Ed has moved on. Maybe 2022/2023. Gives plenty of time to transition his game. His defensive workrate is excellent.

İdeally you have him in there with Cripps and a quicker guy like Dow. Swapping out with Setterfield.

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[reubsblues]

If Josh Kelly isn't our number one target than our list management ain't doing there job
As good as papley and Williams would be they are not even close to kelly
We should be moving heaven and earth to secure him

 

[HBF]

Ive had discussion with many people here that, CAS keeps his spot next year, even with Charlie, Harry and Gov fit, people talking of him playing off the bench. Then we have lots saying Marchbank comes straight back in and lots saying SOS straight back in.

Regardless of where they play, people have to go out and if we are bringing in 3 tall players, most of which are slow, we can’t be cutting smaller, faster players to bring them in, we are slow already.

My concern is, how it all fits. Also SOS needs to improve his game to become a mid

If we play our best 22 we are too tall imo, which is a good thing as it obviously creates competition for spots. Levi is 30, and will be 31 before the start of next season so you would think he might only have 1-2 years left. Jones is also closing in on 30, so he might have about the same. Its just about getting our mix right week to week, and some weeks players are going to be unlucky to miss out.

 

[Arr0w]

I don’t think it’s enough at all. A bit tough considering I don’t know the incentives.

I am trying to figure out what he will get if he stays, say $600,000, he’s worth more, but they have other priorities that demand higher $$$$.

He has always been happy at the Giants and is a NSW man, I don’t think an increase of $100,000-$150,000 is enough to tempt someone away from a club that plays finals every year.

It would be different if you removed the chance of success if he stayed.

Their finishing position could also play a part

I don't think he leaves, but doesn't stop us from having a crack

 

[CJMB]

I don’t think it’s enough at all. A bit tough considering I don’t know the incentives.

I am trying to figure out what he will get if he stays, say $600,000, he’s worth more, but they have other priorities that demand higher $$$$.

He has always been happy at the Giants and is a NSW man, I don’t think an increase of $100,000-$150,000 is enough to tempt someone away from a club that plays finals every year.

It would be different if you removed the chance of success if he stayed.

It depends how high he is on their priority list.

Looking predominatly at players best 22 or getting a game, this year they've got Cameron, Williams, Perryman, Finlayson, DeBoer, Shaw (will he go on?) Langdon, Corr plus players coming to the end of the first contract in Caldwell, Hately, O'Halloran & Briggs who would be looking for an increase from the base wage.

Next year there is Toby Green, Kelly, Davis, Ward & Hopper with Tom Green, Ash, Riccardi, Hutchesson the new kids wanting an increase from base wage.

Surely you can't fit Coniglio, Whitfield, Cameron, Toby Green, Kelly, Williams, Taranto, Davis, Ward, Hayne, etc on healthy deals, especially with the likes of Hopper, Perryman, Finlayson, Caldwell, Hately, Tom Green, Ash, etc who probably all are looking for a nice little increase.

 

[Obeanie1]

How the Blue's land Papely with the Eagles involved!!

At the Eagles the most likely players to look for a trade are Brander and Petrucelle.

A player like Fisher would interest the Eagles.

Blue's give up Zac Fisher plus their 1st pick 9/10. Get Papely.

Swans lose Papely gain pick 9/10 and Brander. Swans need a tall ready to go.

Petrucelle to Blues for their 2020 2nd to even the deal?

Posted this in the Draft / Trade board and got a few likes.

Thoughts?

Got to give something up to land the best small forward in the comp.

 

[skadoosh]

Ive had discussion with many people here that, CAS keeps his spot next year, even with Charlie, Harry and Gov fit, people talking of him playing off the bench. Then we have lots saying Marchbank comes straight back in and lots saying SOS straight back in.

Regardless of where they play, people have to go out and if we are bringing in 3 tall players, most of which are slow, we can’t be cutting smaller, faster players to bring them in, we are slow already.

My concern is, how it all fits. Also SOS needs to improve his game to become a mid

I feel like our Centre square starters being slow isn't as important as our HB, wingers and HF putting themselves in a position to receive the ball.
I feel like the same play repeats itself over and over again, we might win the ball in the middle, but then it just gets banged forward, ball goes sky high, to no-one - ball rebounds. We might get one handball in the chain before it is banged forward in hope.

Where are Newnes, Walsh, Simmo, Samo, Doc, Martin, Murphy running to, to continue a controlled possession chain rather than the big sky-high kick, pray and hope from our centre square mids?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

If Josh Kelly isn't our number one target than our list management ain't doing there job
As good as papley and Williams would be they are not even close to kelly
We should be moving heaven and earth to secure him

The problem is he would cost us more then those two combined and imo offer a lot less then that duo. They would rightfully demand someone like Weitering, McKay, Curnow plus probably change. He would be perfect except his price will be ridiculous.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

How the Blue's land Papely with the Eagles involved!!

At the Eagles the most likely players to look for a trade are Brander and Petrucelle.

A player like Fisher would interest the Eagles.

Blue's give up Zac Fisher plus their 1st pick 9/10. Get Papely.

Swans lose Papely gain pick 9/10 and Brander. Swans need a tall ready to go.

Petrucelle to Blues for their 2020 2nd to even the deal?

Posted this in the Draft / Trade board and got a few likes.

Thoughts?

Got to give something up to land the best small forward in the comp.

I don't think this will work for a few reasons.

First, there's no indication Fish wants out, so that right there ruins the trade.

Second, if Sydney thought pick 9 last year wasn't enough for Papley, then there's no way in hell that Pick 9 plus Brander is enough after his form this year.

Lastly, as much as I like Petch, no way is he worth a 2nd. Hasn't shown enough to be worth that yet.

Eagles walk out of that trade absolutely laughing as well. Carlton come out of that crying. Eagles lose Brander and Petch and get Fisher and a second? C'mon now.

 

[Juice030103]

How the Blue's land Papely with the Eagles involved!!

At the Eagles the most likely players to look for a trade are Brander and Petrucelle.

A player like Fisher would interest the Eagles.

Blue's give up Zac Fisher plus their 1st pick 9/10. Get Papely.

Swans lose Papely gain pick 9/10 and Brander. Swans need a tall ready to go.

Petrucelle to Blues for their 2020 2nd to even the deal?

Posted this in the Draft / Trade board and got a few likes.

Thoughts?

Got to give something up to land the best small forward in the comp.

dont want to disappoint you but brander is a nothing player. losing papley for a top 10 pick and brander would be a very poor return for sydney

 

[Juddernaut08]

Surely you can't fit Coniglio, Whitfield, Cameron, Toby Green, Kelly, Williams, Taranto, Davis, Ward, Hayne, etc on healthy deals, especially with the likes of Hopper, Perryman, Finlayson, Caldwell, Hately, Tom Green, Ash, etc who probably all are looking for a nice little increase.

Corrupt Gil: "hold my beer"

 

[Ricky Mott]

I was surprised with the Gov Pick up and it has made things difficult now, Unless he ups his output then I tend to agree he is overrated and I wonder why he is a lock.
It’s a bit of a stretch to criticise gov though in comparison to SOS, Gov averages 10.13 disposals, SOS averages 10.94, the difference is negligible, I think people overstate his ability as he seriously struggles to find the ball, in more than a third of his games he has got less than 10 touches. He too also needs to lift his output, or he will be passed by.

I don’t see the midfielder to be honest, not once has he got over 20 possessions and regularly gets under 10.

Please watch last years Melbourne and Fremantle games. Runs both ways unlike the rest of our mids. I’m sure he’ll get his 20 plus if he gets to play four quarters in their. When he has played midfield in the vfl he has smashed it.
I think Gov has had more chances than most. His last three games have been poor and very soft yet he’ll come straight back in this week to play WC.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I don’t think it’s enough at all. A bit tough considering I don’t know the incentives.

I am trying to figure out what he will get if he stays, say $600,000, he’s worth more, but they have other priorities that demand higher $$$$.

He has always been happy at the Giants and is a NSW man, I don’t think an increase of $100,000-$150,000 is enough to tempt someone away from a club that plays finals every year.

It would be different if you removed the chance of success if he stayed.

I think he would be on something like $450k atm maybe $500k if he was lucky. Finding that extra money to get him to over $600k will be pretty hard and as good as he is on field he would be very replaceable for them. If I was them I would be in the ear of Smith from Adelaide and pay Adelaide extra in a trade to get them to pay his salary next year. It could work out well if Hatley wantS to go home. Pretty much replace Williams on half the money assuming Smith wants to try and win a premiership.
I think he will be very gettable but I also think he will cost close to the $800k mark.

 

[Obeanie1]

I don't think this will work for a few reasons.

First, there's no indication Fish wants out, so that right there ruins the trade.

Second, if Sydney thought pick 9 last year wasn't enough for Papley, then there's no way in hell that Pick 9 plus Brander is enough after his form this year.

Lastly, as much as I like Petch, no way is he worth a 2nd. Hasn't shown enough to be worth that yet.

Eagles walk out of that trade absolutely laughing as well. Carlton come out of that crying. Eagles lose Brander and Petch and get Fisher and a second? C'mon now.

Well there is a few Eagles fans not laughing at the thought of losing Brander and Petch for Fisher and a 2nd in a heavily compromised draft. That 2nd pick will slide into the 30's so it's no pick 20. If needed a 3rd could be added by the Eagles to balance things up.

The reason Fisher was raised is he is a player who the Eagles would be interested in. Just like they were interested in Josh Kennedy and initially he didn't want to be traded either.

So you can't simply claim "Fisher hasn't said anything so it can't happen". How many players come out and say "I want to be traded" prior to the end of the season? How many players are nudged out the door to land a gun?

Swans need quality talls ready to go, Brander is that. He has been poorly developed at the Eagles on a wing because they have a glut of quality talls in front of him. Now he's got a hip niggle. He was highly rated when drafted and in many other sides he would be playing in his preferred position CHB / CHF.

 

[Obeanie1]

dont want to disappoint you but brander is a nothing player. losing papley for a top 10 pick and brander would be a very poor return for sydney

So you know a lot about Brander and how tall's develop?

GWS had him training as an academy kid before rules changed. Apparently they have been keeping tabs on him.

He was touted as a top 5 pick before going at 13. Now he is stuck behind Kennedy, Darling, McGovern, Barrass and Allen with Williams a forward / ruck who is pushing hard and Harry Edwards a CHB who debuted on the weekend.

It's a tough side to break into ATM. Hence why he is being "developed" on the wing which really doesn't suit him.

 

[FRUMPY]

Ive had discussion with many people here that, CAS keeps his spot next year, even with Charlie, Harry and Gov fit, people talking of him playing off the bench. Then we have lots saying Marchbank comes straight back in and lots saying SOS straight back in.

Regardless of where they play, people have to go out and if we are bringing in 3 tall players, most of which are slow, we can’t be cutting smaller, faster players to bring them in, we are slow already.

My concern is, how it all fits. Also SOS needs to improve his game to become a mid

The issue with your discussion above is you are doing it on paper - it doesnt work like that:
1. No team ever has zero injuries
2. Form is more important than the name and players form goes up and down
3. Once you are in the team, its your spot to lose - again form dictates this.

In regard to the forward line, i dont agree all 4 play - teague likes 3 tall forwards so someone wont make the team - again injury and form will dictate.

 

[Juice030103]

So you know a lot about Brander and how tall's develop?

GWS had him training as an academy kid before rules changed. Apparently they have been keeping tabs on him.

He was touted as a top 5 pick before going at 13. Now he is stuck behind Kennedy, Darling, McGovern, Barrass and Allen with Williams a forward / ruck who is pushing hard and Harry Edwards a CHB who debuted on the weekend.

It's a tough side to break into ATM. Hence why he is being "developed" on the wing which really doesn't suit him.

wouldnt do it if i was sydney. they dont need another player like blakey and mccartin as one of those "could be anything" players

 

[DangerousD]

Their finishing position could also play a part

I don't think he leaves, but doesn't stop us from having a crack

It’s unlikely, but I picture myself in his shoes, really good player, semi local lad, has been loyal to the club and is coming up to probably his biggest contract and at the negotiating table, the CEO says, hmmmm sorry Zac, we spent all our money overpaying the other lads, so now we need to underpay you.

I wouldn’t be very happy at all and that’s when it’s time to swoop in, no draft picks, just a nice big contract, $850,000 plus a few incentives.

 

[DangerousD]

Please watch last years Melbourne and Fremantle games. Runs both ways unlike the rest of our mids. I’m sure he’ll get his 20 plus if he gets to play four quarters in their. When he has played midfield in the vfl he has smashed it.
I think Gov has had more chances than most. His last three games have been poor and very soft yet he’ll come straight back in this week to play WC.

I don’t need to go and watch two specific games to get a read on Jack, most Players play good games here and there, he has good skills but at the moment lacks a few to really excel in any position. He’s still out injured for another 2 games, so will be 4 or so weeks before he’s back in the first 22. I was hopeful that he would play the role we recruited Gov for, 15 possessions a game, a link between defence and forward, kicking a goal a game.

I have also thought he could play as the third tall defender but the club should know better and haven’t put him there often.

Time will tell.

 

[DangerousD]

I think he would be on something like $450k atm maybe $500k

I would be very surprised if he was on under $500,000

 

[Ricky Mott]

I don’t need to go and watch two specific games to get a read on Jack, most Players play good games here and there, he has good skills but at the moment lacks a few to really excel in any position. He’s still out injured for another 2 games, so will be 4 or so weeks before he’s back in the first 22. I was hopeful that he would play the role we recruited Gov for, 15 possessions a game, a link between defence and forward, kicking a goal a game.

I have also thought he could play as the third tall defender but the club should know better and haven’t put him there often.

Time will tell.

Last time I looked McGovern is going at 7.5 possessions per game this season.

 

[DangerousD]

The issue with your discussion above is you are doing it on paper - it doesnt work like that:
1. No team ever has zero injuries
2. Form is more important than the name and players form goes up and down
3. Once you are in the team, its your spot to lose - again form dictates this.

In regard to the forward line, i dont agree all 4 play - teague likes 3 tall forwards so someone wont make the team - again injury and form will dictate.

Doing it on paper as opposed to?

We have been discussing at length how Jack fits in to the side, how Charlie fits in to the side, how Marchy fits in to the side, how Kemp next year will fit in to the side. I certainly hope a lot will miss out as I think we are too tall, hence the discussion.

Form should be the biggest factor well one of the biggest but I don’t think it is, forward line structure, cohesion and continuity are really important and I don’t see many coaches dropping players in and out of their preferred structure.

Then we go on to the another part of this which we have been discussing, most players do t want to wait for game in the VFL and hope for injuries to specific players so they can play, especially if they are 2nd or third in line, this is why I ask and why I’m bringing up who goes out and who comes in, so we can asses who’s in the VFL and if we are carrying too many of one sort and if we are, do they hold any value to help us get something else.

I love the idea of once being in the team it’s your spot to lose, so far this year a few players have continually been poor and haven’t lost their spot but the idea is good. Of course every team has injuries, some more than others, plan for the worst and hope for the best, still players won’t stick around and wait years for another player to retire or will be happy to play 2nds if there are other clubs willing to give them a go.