List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[HereComesJuddy]

SPS would wanna have a big off-season. Reckon if he doesn't hit the weight room and put on some muscle then he could be in line for the Dow/LOB/Fisher treatment next year - a nice little 6-10 week block in the reserves learning how to play like a senior leader instead of a rookie.

Weights room hey...

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

All the 'get a big fish' talk aside (and i'd like J.Kelly please - get it done), an observation based on Geelong right now - I'd argue it's the middle, reliable, workman-like tier that have elevated them out of the pack to genuine contenders.

Menagola, Guthrie, Duncan etc .... I think the biggest question for us going forward is who are our predictable, ultra-reliable middle tier 150-200 gamer guys?

E Curnow has been great and i'd put him in this category - but who are our guys for the next few years.

Are they already on our list?

I'm bullish on Setterfield (i don't see his upside as brownlow medal like as some on here), I think Gibbons has potential, I think JSOS potentially fits this but I'm worried we've mis-handled his development (like a few others).

(just interested in discussion about list balance - we can't have elite stars in every position)

Menegola and Duncan are not middle tier players, they're borderline AA.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Menegola and Duncan are not middle tier players, they're borderline AA.

I think that's why he suggested they were middle tier players that have elevated. I'd say Duncan was a bit higher than mid tier originally though.

Guthrie is another who has had a very good season to date.

 

[Coona Blues]

Quite intriguing that so many have Josh Kelly as the top target for the off season. The bloke had a "blinder" today, or did he? 26 disposals
for 87 metres gained. Kelly is a part of their current underperforming issues. Great "efficiency" flipping it around, but relying on "lesser"
players to attempt the lesser percentage, higher reward targets. Chip, chip, chip. Our transition and connection going forward is our greatest
need. Give me Zac Williams, who regularly 'straightens them up' or spots up a target in the corridor to initiate attacking forays. The other one
that may shake loose is Harry Perryman with 24 disposals for 398 metres gained, cannot "survive" on appropriate money if Giants find a way
to retain Cameron and Williams. Caldwell tracking OK too with limited game time weekly, if rumours are correct and he is desiring a return to
ictoria, we could do much worse, although has a similar development profile to many of our current "kids" and adds to the potential log jam.

I know I/we are looking at that same source that has been lamented in recent years, however, we don't need top ups or overpriced inside
"plodders". We need distributors and/or line breakers. If Papley wants us again and Swans are prepared to release him, well and good, but
he is not worth more than one mid range first round pick. Any higher price, we must be prepared to walk away, back our current players and
hit the draft for a crumber/pressure forward prospect.

 

[BuxbaumBixby]

Menegola and Duncan are not middle tier players, they're borderline AA.

Reckon they're getting paid about the same as Ed.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Quite intriguing that so many have Josh Kelly as the top target for the off season. The bloke had a "blinder" today, or did he? 26 disposals
for 87 metres gained. Kelly is a part of their current underperforming issues. Great "efficiency" flipping it around, but relying on "lesser"
players to attempt the lesser percentage, higher reward targets. Chip, chip, chip. Our transition and connection going forward is our greatest
need. Give me Zac Williams, who regularly 'straightens them up' or spots up a target in the corridor to initiate attacking forays. The other one
that may shake loose is Harry Perryman with 24 disposals for 398 metres gained, cannot "survive" on appropriate money if Giants find a way
to retain Cameron and Williams. Caldwell tracking OK too with limited game time weekly, if rumours are correct and he is desiring a return to
ictoria, we could do much worse, although has a similar development profile to many of our current "kids" and adds to the potential log jam.

I know I/we are looking at that same source that has been lamented in recent years, however, we don't need top ups or overpriced inside
"plodders". We need distributors and/or line breakers. If Papley wants us again and Swans are prepared to release him, well and good, but
he is not worth more than one mid range first round pick. Any higher price, we must be prepared to walk away, back our current players and
hit the draft for a crumber/pressure forward prospect.

Kelly has shown the attributes and skills required to be absolutely elite in our system. I'm no expert on the Giants but all of the problems you listed above seem more like a gameplan and team issue than Kelly's fault.

Last year he averaged 425m gained per game, on par with the likes of Shuey, Lachie Hunter and Shannon Hurn. The year before that in 2018 he averaged 494m gained per game, which was 6th in the league! 2018 he was also 3rd in the league for average inside 50s per game.

I believe most of issues this year and last are due to either the Giant's gameplan or a change in role for him. If he comes to us and plays our style of footy he can reach the heights of 2018 and beyond. Well worth 2 firsts IMO.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Pies hand Cox a career lifeline, Polec's future looks dicey at North

Mason Cox recalled for Monday night's critical date with North, while the Roos have overlooked Jared Polec again amid speculation the wingman could soon be on his way to a fourth AFL club.

www.theage.com.au

I would think about Polec if North agreed to pay a sizable portion of his salary and didn't ask the World in terms of a trade IE 3rd round pick etc

Probably past his prime, but still has pace and can kick a goal on the run.

Might be a better bet than a 3rd or 4th round pick in a very compromised and arguably shallow draft.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Quite intriguing that so many have Josh Kelly as the top target for the off season. The bloke had a "blinder" today, or did he? 26 disposals
for 87 metres gained. Kelly is a part of their current underperforming issues. Great "efficiency" flipping it around, but relying on "lesser"
players to attempt the lesser percentage, higher reward targets. Chip, chip, chip. Our transition and connection going forward is our greatest
need. Give me Zac Williams, who regularly 'straightens them up' or spots up a target in the corridor to initiate attacking forays. The other one
that may shake loose is Harry Perryman with 24 disposals for 398 metres gained, cannot "survive" on appropriate money if Giants find a way
to retain Cameron and Williams. Caldwell tracking OK too with limited game time weekly, if rumours are correct and he is desiring a return to
ictoria, we could do much worse, although has a similar development profile to many of our current "kids" and adds to the potential log jam.

I know I/we are looking at that same source that has been lamented in recent years, however, we don't need top ups or overpriced inside
"plodders". We need distributors and/or line breakers. If Papley wants us again and Swans are prepared to release him, well and good, but
he is not worth more than one mid range first round pick. Any higher price, we must be prepared to walk away, back our current players and
hit the draft for a crumber/pressure forward prospect.

Did you watch the game? The giants are shot, they have the full display of talented players who dont create space for one another in congestion or across the ground. Josh Kelly is a line breaking mid with a piercing kick who also kicks goals, but if you watch his games most of the time theres absolutely no space for him, nor is there anyone in space ahead of him.

Our team may not be grand finalists but we do the basics right of creating space for outside players and putting on blocks for one another in congestion. We create space. Is our midfield better than Geelongs? No. Did we beat Geelongs mids? Yep. Have we beaten the Dogs mids a few times in recent history? Yep. On paper we actually have one of the worst midfields in the comp, but our unit close the gap due to selfless play and good structure which means we actually compete quite well in there most weeks.

The giants and some of the other teams listed have selfish ball winners who dont provide any release for their teammates. Richmonds midfield has never been too much chop other than Dusty, but they work as a unit in there as well as any team thats played and have been able to match it with vastly superior competition due to it.

In the same way as Menegola and Guthrie who are undeniably less talented than the likes of Dangerfield, Duncan, Selwood and Ablett are actually preferred in the guts at the present time, we have some great team orientated players such as Setters Walsh and Ed. Menegola and Guthrie balance out the midfield as more defensive minded players who do the basics right. On the end of their good work they free up the likes of Danger and Duncan which results in a greater spread of the load and now is letting them also reap the rewards by getting big numbers themselves as the ball gets chucked around a lot more.


Long story short is Kelly is in the most talented team of all time, and probably one of the most selfish teams of all time. If you plug him into our team around guys like Cripps, Setters, Ed, Walsh his output would be vastly different and be more likely suited to being the sought after ball user we need. Ed, Setters, Walsh have been unselfish from day dot and work hard on freeing up their team mates which as theyve improved has seen a far more even spread this season.

Kelly is class, but you cant have class winning games when they also have to do the grunt work and hack kicks over the shoulder because the rest of the team is playing like a bunch of cowboys.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Quite intriguing that so many have Josh Kelly as the top target for the off season. The bloke had a "blinder" today, or did he? 26 disposals
for 87 metres gained. Kelly is a part of their current underperforming issues. Great "efficiency" flipping it around, but relying on "lesser"
players to attempt the lesser percentage, higher reward targets. Chip, chip, chip. Our transition and connection going forward is our greatest
need. Give me Zac Williams, who regularly 'straightens them up' or spots up a target in the corridor to initiate attacking forays. The other one
that may shake loose is Harry Perryman with 24 disposals for 398 metres gained, cannot "survive" on appropriate money if Giants find a way
to retain Cameron and Williams. Caldwell tracking OK too with limited game time weekly, if rumours are correct and he is desiring a return to
ictoria, we could do much worse, although has a similar development profile to many of our current "kids" and adds to the potential log jam.

I know I/we are looking at that same source that has been lamented in recent years, however, we don't need top ups or overpriced inside
"plodders". We need distributors and/or line breakers. If Papley wants us again and Swans are prepared to release him, well and good, but
he is not worth more than one mid range first round pick. Any higher price, we must be prepared to walk away, back our current players and
hit the draft for a crumber/pressure forward prospect.

Dont disagree with Williams or Perryman though, all 3 are really good players. But Kelly is a class above when the team is functioning well.

 

[katmanblue]

Pies hand Cox a career lifeline, Polec's future looks dicey at North

Mason Cox recalled for Monday night's critical date with North, while the Roos have overlooked Jared Polec again amid speculation the wingman could soon be on his way to a fourth AFL club.

www.theage.com.au

I would think about Polec if North agreed to pay a sizable portion of his salary and didn't ask the World in terms of a trade IE 3rd round pick etc

Probably past his prime, but still has pace and can kick a goal on the run.

Might be a better bet than a 3rd or 4th round pick in a very compromised and arguably shallow draft.

Absolutely a no from me. Walking out on two clubs aint a good look.

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[jonesyy12]

Anyone believe we are sort of deviating from our rebuild plan by not playing guys like LOB and Dow? Obviously have to earn your spot these days but just wondering what people think

 

[Jeremias]

Anyone believe we are sort of deviating from our rebuild plan by not playing guys like LOB and Dow? Obviously have to earn your spot these days but just wondering what people think

No. Creating greater competition for spots, making kids work on their game and really earn their stripes is not deviating from a rebuild.

It’s what good clubs do.

 

[therubbernub]

Added, while Polson may be doing well in the seconds, the bigger question is ‘who do they drop?’

Who of Docherty, Simmo, SPS and Willo gets dropped for Polson?

Think SPS hasn’t had his best recently, but he’s still doing his job and offers elite disposal. Willo is improving all the time, Docherty or Simmo? No.

For someone to come into the side, always got to ask “who goes out?”



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

yes lets acknowledge that our back 7 have done a tremendous job the last 3 rounds- except for a small period when our midfield let the WCE off the chain

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Our midfield didn’t let WC off the chain, number 22 was putting in his claim for BOG


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[KnobHead]

Anyone believe we are sort of deviating from our rebuild plan by not playing guys like LOB and Dow? Obviously have to earn your spot these days but just wondering what people think

No, i don’t think that just because we’re not playing certain players that they’re not part of the “grand plan.”

Maybe with LOB & Dow the coaches eventually see tham as part of the senior team, but need them to sharpen a few parts of their game and it’s envisioned that will take time. Both LOB (kicking and endurance) and Dow (strength and breakaway speed) have unique game features not easily found in other players.

Added, there may be some senior players who only have a year or 2 left and the club has a particular player in mind in the reserves to replace them.

Could be other reasons. But I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that just because a young player spends early years in the reserves that the club doesn’t see than as a future & permanent fixture of the seniors.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[BigFrizz36]

Pies hand Cox a career lifeline, Polec's future looks dicey at North

Mason Cox recalled for Monday night's critical date with North, while the Roos have overlooked Jared Polec again amid speculation the wingman could soon be on his way to a fourth AFL club.

www.theage.com.au

I would think about Polec if North agreed to pay a sizable portion of his salary and didn't ask the World in terms of a trade IE 3rd round pick etc

Probably past his prime, but still has pace and can kick a goal on the run.

Might be a better bet than a 3rd or 4th round pick in a very compromised and arguably shallow draft.

Why? Absolute spud who is playing reserves at the second bottom team because he is soft. Would be his 4th club. We need blokes that would make us better no matter who pays their salary.

 

[scblues]

Pies hand Cox a career lifeline, Polec's future looks dicey at North

Mason Cox recalled for Monday night's critical date with North, while the Roos have overlooked Jared Polec again amid speculation the wingman could soon be on his way to a fourth AFL club.

www.theage.com.au

I would think about Polec if North agreed to pay a sizable portion of his salary and didn't ask the World in terms of a trade IE 3rd round pick etc

Probably past his prime, but still has pace and can kick a goal on the run.

Might be a better bet than a 3rd or 4th round pick in a very compromised and arguably shallow draft.

Polec is an absolute flog of a bloke... No way id want him anywhere near this group...

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Polec is an absolute flog of a bloke... No way id want him anywhere near this group...

Based on what ?

 

[Coona Blues]

Did you watch the game? The giants are shot, they have the full display of talented players who dont create space for one another in congestion or across the ground. Josh Kelly is a line breaking mid with a piercing kick who also kicks goals, but if you watch his games most of the time theres absolutely no space for him, nor is there anyone in space ahead of him.

Our team may not be grand finalists but we do the basics right of creating space for outside players and putting on blocks for one another in congestion. We create space. Is our midfield better than Geelongs? No. Did we beat Geelongs mids? Yep. Have we beaten the Dogs mids a few times in recent history? Yep. On paper we actually have one of the worst midfields in the comp, but our unit close the gap due to selfless play and good structure which means we actually compete quite well in there most weeks.

The giants and some of the other teams listed have selfish ball winners who dont provide any release for their teammates. Richmonds midfield has never been too much chop other than Dusty, but they work as a unit in there as well as any team thats played and have been able to match it with vastly superior competition due to it.

In the same way as Menegola and Guthrie who are undeniably less talented than the likes of Dangerfield, Duncan, Selwood and Ablett are actually preferred in the guts at the present time, we have some great team orientated players such as Setters Walsh and Ed. Menegola and Guthrie balance out the midfield as more defensive minded players who do the basics right. On the end of their good work they free up the likes of Danger and Duncan which results in a greater spread of the load and now is letting them also reap the rewards by getting big numbers themselves as the ball gets chucked around a lot more.


Long story short is Kelly is in the most talented team of all time, and probably one of the most selfish teams of all time. If you plug him into our team around guys like Cripps, Setters, Ed, Walsh his output would be vastly different and be more likely suited to being the sought after ball user we need. Ed, Setters, Walsh have been unselfish from day dot and work hard on freeing up their team mates which as theyve improved has seen a far more even spread this season.

Kelly is class, but you cant have class winning games when they also have to do the grunt work and hack kicks over the shoulder because the rest of the team is playing like a bunch of cowboys.

Love the response, pretty much what I was looking for.

You highlight our ability to mix it with the star studded midfields of the competition despite having relatively unfashionable names in there. We aren't
nearly as far off as most on here think. Why are so many banging on about the shortcomings of our midfield, and fighting over which available plodder
we can get to replace our somewhat effective current players and to block the progression of a handful of ultra talented kids we already have.

You laud Kelly yet highlight the issues his club has, a club he is a "leader" of. He is indeed sublimely talented, does he fit our team ethos. If we were to
acquire him by giving up two first rounders, where does he play. You have agreed he does not operate overly effectively in congestion. Do we pay two
first rounders for a winger/receiver, regardless of how good he is? He will not move without a big payday, we have the cap room at the moment, but
will his price compromise our ability to retain our young stars down the track? Blokes like Perryman and Williams have not been experiencing the big
pay cheques of some of their team mates so will appreciate an appropriate, significant rise. What would Kelly expect?

Stuff selling the farm for Kelly or Papley. Appropriate outlay or use the draft to maintain equilibrium with the TPP.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Why? Absolute spud who is playing reserves at the second bottom team because he is soft. Would be his 4th club. We need blokes that would make us better no matter who pays their salary.

So was Martin. He has brilliant traits and he would be a great fit football wise. Could be a massive flog though so that could instantly rule him out.

 

[scblues]

Based on what ?

I know people who grew up with him, went to school with him.. Ask his ex team mates also..

 

[DirkDiggler]

As much as I would like Josh Kelly ,we would have to pay through the nose in both draft picks and salary. Likewise Papley. Sydney will price us out waiting for their godfather deal just like we did with Adelaide before trading Gibbs.

IMO our key list management priorities are Williams and De Goey. They will both take a big slice of our salary cap by making paying significant overs however their acquisition as RFAs will not impact on our drafting.

Why De Goey? He can win us a game of his own boot. Apart from Charlie we don't have a player with x factor and match winner. I also rate his versatility. Jordan is capable of helping out our midfield with stints in the middle. Does he come with risk? Definitely? So did Dusty and he worked out okay. High risk high reward.

The club sees the need to acquire more big bodied mids hence being linked to Brad Couch and Ollie Wines. They are both past the peak of their careers and will demand a substantial salary. The former has had an injury riddled career and the later will cost us a high draft pick or two. This has me worried. Setterfield is getting more confident with each game and the return of Charlie next year will give us another big body to help out in the middle. Also, Jack Graham or Jack Viney would be much cheaper alternatives to do the job.

We need more goal kicking mid/ half forward. Fritsch from the Dees and Parfitt are both highly skilled mids and more importantly uncontracted. Targeting these two would make a lot of sense in that we we will have some leverage in trade negotiations.

I noticed Essendon haven't signed Saad. Still think he would be a perfect fit for us either down back or as a goal kicking wingman.

Just my thoughts. Expect to end up with Brad Couch and go into the draft with full picks

 

[Stamos]

As much as I would like Josh Kelly ,we would have to pay through the nose in both draft picks and salary. Likewise Papley. Sydney will price us out waiting for their godfather deal just like we did with Adelaide before trading Gibbs.

IMO our key list management priorities are Williams and De Goey. They will both take a big slice of our salary cap by making paying significant overs however their acquisition as RFAs will not impact on our drafting.

De Goey is not a Free Agent, would likely cost more than Papley

 

[HARKER]

Right now, we're bemoaning SPS not being utilised as the mid-fielder he was drafted as.
Some of us are also wanting Fisher being played as the midfielder he was also recruited as.
ECurnow is going nowhere any time soon and even though Murphy is still being utilised, it is being pegged back somewhat.

Cripps, ECurnow, Walsh, Setterfield & Murphy have been our midfield mainstays for a good part of this year, with cameos from Cuningham, Martin, Gibbons.....so even if Murphy was to be taken out altogether, how on earth are we going to fit in SPS, Dow, Kemp, Stocker, Fisher, Kennedy, Philp ?
Answer - We're not.

Lots to play out for the CFC to get our best balanced side onto the park next year, even if we didn't recruit any players.
Do it well Austin.

 

[new_blue]

Can’t see us having major list changes over the off season.

Right now - the only 2 clear cut delisting are Lang and Goddard.

I see Murphy and Simpson both playing on next year (they’ve spent most of their careers in a struggling team and now we’re finally coming good so I can see them wanting 1 last crack to see if they can end on a real high), particularly if the decision is left to them.

Betts and Kruezer - probably will need to let them both go...just don’t have any room to keep them. May be unpopular.

Beyond this we may need to swap Gibbons and Cottrell onto the main list with BSOS and Finbar moved to rookies.

Not sure what happens with Owies, can he stay in rookie list for another year?

I think we’ll keep Moore as a rookie, he’s provided depth that we need. Also feel the club is happy with Polson and Macreadie.

If we plan to use 2-3 picks in the draft, then it doesn’t leave much for incoming players, assuming Soapy’s mail is correct around not trading out any young guys.