List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[I bleed Blue]

Really think Narkle is the one for you guys , He is very talented and has fantastic speed and a good size for a small foward
very under utilised at the cats and would probably come cheap with massive upside. Carlton have Martin/Betts/SPS at the club so the kid wouldnt struggle to bond and probably enjoy the guidance of Betts.

There are rumblings on some richmond forums that Paddy Dow may be of interest at Punt Road, How would this go down with most of you guys and what type of value would the supporter base be happy or atleast content with if that was to eventuate

Everyone is tradeable for the right price.

What would you think is fair?

 

[Jeremias]

If Carlton intends to acquire players like Williams and perhaps another quality midfielder or HBF that are walk up starts, that places Dow and LOB further behind the pecking order and what I am saying is that if they're not already in the frame now as being best 22, they slip further behind when ready made players are brought in. We know that Simpson, Murphy and Curnow will need to be replaced and likely in that order. Dow and LOB not getting regular games now does not bode well.

At the end of the year some players will come and others will go, whilst others will be phased out over time.

Adding the likes of Williams, Wines etc. does not necessarily move the likes of LOB, Dow down the pecking order.

Dow, LOB not getting regular games at senior level in 2020 tells us very little about what the plans are for them in 2021, just as both playing every game under Teague at the back end of 2019 didn't tell us much about what the plans were for both in 2020.

 

[Eiffel 65]

At the end of the year some players will come and others will go, whilst others will be phased out over time.

Adding the likes of Williams, Wines etc. does not necessarily move the likes of LOB, Dow down the pecking order.

Dow, LOB not getting regular games at senior level in 2020 tells us very little about what the plans are for them in 2021, just as both playing every game under Teague at the back end of 2019 didn't tell us much about what the plans were for both in 2020.

I think that's debatable and I'll use Mitch McGovern as an example.

McGovern was brought across from Adelaide on $800k. We're paying him the big bucks. Now what has he done on the field over the past 2 seasons that makes him a walk up start? The answer is absolutely nothing and he's been at the club for almost 2 years.

He's a liability and walks off the ground with hamstring awareness more often than not.

If he's getting games to justify the the $800k contract we gave him, it means others like JSOS get pushed down the pecking order.

Seriously, how McGovern has never been forced to find form in the 2's completely baffles me. His form over the past 2 years has been putrid.

Not picking McGovern basically tells everyone the trade was a mistake, which clubs generally don't want to admit to.

Same will happen with other overrated high priced recruits.

 

[chunkylover53]

At the end of the year some players will come and others will go, whilst others will be phased out over time.

Adding the likes of Williams, Wines etc. does not necessarily move the likes of LOB, Dow down the pecking order.

Dow, LOB not getting regular games at senior level in 2020 tells us very little about what the plans are for them in 2021, just as both playing every game under Teague at the back end of 2019 didn't tell us much about what the plans were for both in 2020.

Yes it does.

 

[Jeremias]

I think that's debatable and I'll use Mitch McGovern as an example.

Not a great example given Jack played more senior games than McGovern in 2019, and may well have again in 2020 had he not been hindered by a couple of different injuries.

If anything that proves my point. Bringing in mature players doesn't necessarily spell the end for some of the younger players on the list.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I think that's debatable and I'll use Mitch McGovern as an example.

McGovern was brought across from Adelaide on $800k. We're paying him the big bucks. Now what has he done on the field over the past 2 seasons that makes him a walk up start? The answer is absolutely nothing and he's been at the club for almost 2 years.

He's a liability and walks off the ground with hamstring awareness more often than not.

If he's getting games to justify the the $800k contract we gave him, it means others like JSOS get pushed down the pecking order.

Seriously, how McGovern has never been forced to find form in the 2's completely baffles me. His form over the past 2 years has been putrid.

Not picking McGovern basically tells everyone the trade was a mistake, which clubs generally don't want to admit to.

Same will happen with other overrated high priced recruits.

The way I see it is that although MM has pushed JSOS down the pecking order it’s still just a case of one currently average player keeping another average player out which isn’t ideal but the reason SOS isn’t getting a game is only because he is only an average player, it has nothing to do with MM. It’ll be the same in the midfield. We have 3-4 average players going through there. bringing in one good player doesn’t stop the fact that there are still a couple of average players in there and Dow, LOB don’t have to force out the gun to make it, just an average player which we would hope to hell they get to be better then being average players

 

[Eiffel 65]

Not a great example given Jack played more senior games than McGovern in 2019, and may well have again in 2020 had he not been hindered by a couple of different injuries.

If anything that proves my point. Bringing in mature players doesn't necessarily spell the end for some of the younger players on the list.

Fine. Pick any other player to use in the example.

The reality is only 22 players can play in the senior side each week.

When you're recruiting someone on the big bucks, it's expected that they'll be in the starting 22, which means they're taking someone else's spot in the team.

 

[Jeremias]

Yes it does.

No, it really doesn't - there is so much more to it than that.

Amazing that we yearn for depth and competition for spots, yet when that happens some lose all perspective.

 

[Jeremias]

Fine. Pick any other player to use in the example.

Setterfield played exclusively on the wing under Teague in 2019. Did bringing in Newnes push Setterfield down this so called pecking order?

We recruited Pittonet at the end of last season. Did bringing him in mark the end of the road for De Koning who didn't play at all in 2019?

We brought in Martin at the end of last season, did he push Cuningham (who plays a similar hybrid mid/forward role) down the pecking order?

They are three more examples for you. Your turn.

 

[BigBreakfast]

If Richmond want Dow they can have him.

He has zero trade value right now HBF. At 20, its too early to give up on him yet.

 

[Arr0w]

Yes it does.

Hmmm, probably not, they would come in and Murphy and Simmo would be gone, others would shuffle into different roles

 

[HBF]

I would be wanting to give him a block of games to see if he can build confidence I still think he won’t be a bust

I just don't see if myself

 

[HBF]

Dow and LOB - if they’re not getting continuous games now, and assuming Carlton recruits at least two players in the off season that will be walk up starters, I don’t see them as our future.

I do for LOB. Classy user of the footy, can play midfield or half back.

 

[Juddernaut08]

I think that's debatable and I'll use Mitch McGovern as an example.

McGovern was brought across from Adelaide on $800k. We're paying him the big bucks. Now what has he done on the field over the past 2 seasons that makes him a walk up start? The answer is absolutely nothing and he's been at the club for almost 2 years.

He's a liability and walks off the ground with hamstring awareness more often than not.

If he's getting games to justify the the $800k contract we gave him, it means others like JSOS get pushed down the pecking order.

Seriously, how McGovern has never been forced to find form in the 2's completely baffles me. His form over the past 2 years has been putrid.

Not picking McGovern basically tells everyone the trade was a mistake, which clubs generally don't want to admit to.

Same will happen with other overrated high priced recruits.

Chubbs McGovern was no doubt the worst trade that I can remember.

Im not sure hes better than JSOS who plays the same role. And we couldve used the picks for someone else of need.

Or perhaps just keep mcadam

 

[HBF]

He has zero trade value right now HBF. At 20, its too early to give up on him yet.

He might be the steak knives in a trade then. He can't kick and his endurance is terrible.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Setterfield played exclusively on the wing under Teague in 2019. Did bringing in Newnes push Setterfield down this so called pecking order?

We recruited Pittonet at the end of last season. Did bringing him in mark the end of the road for De Koning who didn't play at all in 2019?

We brought in Martin at the end of last season, did he push Cuningham (who plays a similar hybrid mid/forward role) down the pecking order?

They are three more examples for you. Your turn.

Setterfield was never recruited to play on the wing. He's a big bodied midfielder. The fact that he was coming off an ACL may have had something to do with his positioning. Maybe the club thought it was better for him to be running in straight lines as much as possible post ACL. He probably didn't have the muscle to go straight to an inside role too. Setterfield vs Kennedy would be a better comparison. One will push the other out long term.

TDK was dropped for the GWS because Pittonet played ruck. The only reason why the two played in the same side was due to injury. We won't be selecting two rucks again if we're playing three tall forwards unless at least three of Harry, Charlie, McGovern and Casboult are injured.

As for Cuningham, he's not playing and he's not injured. Someone is keeping him out of the side.

 

[Jeremias]

He might be the steak knives in a trade then. He can't kick and his endurance is terrible.

Including a contracted 20 year old former pick 3 as "steak knives" in any deal would just about be the dumbest thing we could possibly do at the end of this year.

 

[BigBreakfast]

He might be the steak knives in a trade then. He can't kick and his endurance is terrible.

I don't question his deficiencies and am as frustrated as you with his progress. Pick 2 to steak knives by 20 is a big fall from grace. A bit more time after another preseason unless; ah f*** it if he goes, he goes.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Including a contracted 20 year old former pick 3 as "steak knives" in any deal would just about be the dumbest thing we could possibly do at the end of this year.

Agreed, even if he's a 30% chance to make it that's more than you'll get out of a steak knives level pick.

 

[Jeremias]

Setterfield was never recruited to play on the wing. He's a big bodied midfielder. The fact that he was coming off an ACL may have had something to do with his positioning. Maybe the club thought it was better for him to be running in straight lines as much as possible post ACL. He probably didn't have the muscle to go straight to an inside role too. Setterfield vs Kennedy would be a better comparison. One will push the other out long term.

TDK was dropped for the GWS because Pittonet played ruck. The only reason why the two played in the same side was due to injury. We won't be selecting two rucks again if we're playing three tall forwards unless at least three of Harry, Charlie, McGovern and Casboult are injured.

As for Cuningham, he's not playing and he's not injured. Someone is keeping him out of the side.

Right.

So bringing in the likes of Newnes, Pittonet, Martin, McGovern hasn't stamped the papers of Setterfield, TDK, Cuningham and Silvagni, yet bringing in Williams and Wines means LOB and Dow are pushed down a supposed 'pecking order' and basically ends their time at the club?

You are proving my point for me and you don't even realise it.

Re: Cuningham. Please. Happy to discuss but none of us are idiots around here and there is no need to be disingenuous. Cuningham is playing scratch matches at the moment because he's coming back from injury, not because he was pushed out by Martin.

 

[HBF]

Including a contracted 20 year old former pick 3 as "steak knives" in any deal would just about be the dumbest thing we could possibly do at the end of this year.

What part of Dows game makes you want me to be patient with? Is is the fact that he's one positional player. Or is it the fact that he can't kick? Or is it the fact he has no tank?

He's a bust.

 

[Arr0w]

Nice output by some smaller forwards/mid rotations this weekend

Wallis, just keeps kicking goals
Ryan all class, beautiful by foot
Lonie, massive tank for a small forward, bargin buy
Miers, dangerous
Parfitt, playing through the middle

Plenty of options

 

[Eiffel 65]

Really think Narkle is the one for you guys , He is very talented and has fantastic speed and a good size for a small foward
very under utilised at the cats and would probably come cheap with massive upside. Carlton have Martin/Betts/SPS at the club so the kid wouldnt struggle to bond and probably enjoy the guidance of Betts.

There are rumblings on some richmond forums that Paddy Dow may be of interest at Punt Road, How would this go down with most of you guys and what type of value would the supporter base be happy or atleast content with if that was to eventuate

100% agree with this. If list sizes are reduced, Geelong may well be willing to part ways too. They're well stocked for small forwards so he wouldn't be a big loss for them.

Don't think the Dow rumour has any legs tbh, but time will tell.

 

[Team DJ]

If we are looking at 40 next year.
Is Levi guaranteed a contract?

 

[katmanblue]

I think that's debatable and I'll use Mitch McGovern as an example.

McGovern was brought across from Adelaide on $800k. We're paying him the big bucks. Now what has he done on the field over the past 2 seasons that makes him a walk up start? The answer is absolutely nothing and he's been at the club for almost 2 years.

He's a liability and walks off the ground with hamstring awareness more often than not.

If he's getting games to justify the the $800k contract we gave him, it means others like JSOS get pushed down the pecking order.

Seriously, how McGovern has never been forced to find form in the 2's completely baffles me. His form over the past 2 years has been putrid.

Not picking McGovern basically tells everyone the trade was a mistake, which clubs generally don't want to admit to.

Same will happen with other overrated high priced recruits.

800k? Source on that?

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