List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[Bostonian]

ummmm

Umm what? We've been rebuilding for 15 years, I could name half the competition.

 

[Bostonian]

How do you figure?
He played round 1, was injured, played 3 scratch matches and came into the side for 2 games. He has since missed 1.

He obviously has things to work on, mainly to do with his fitness and defensive work. But you really come across as having NFI.

Things to work on?

Like being an AFL standard player?

Just because he's our player doesn't mean we have to have a cry anytime anyone doesn't rate one of our players.

So many sensitive easily triggered fans we have.

 

[Blue__Balls]

You want us to take a guy with a $500k contract who only wants to play as a forward and chuck him down back in the reserves to try and 'Jones' him?!...

A) I've got no idea what money he's on. Have had a quick search and I can't see anything to corroborate a figure of $500k. If it is in that territory, and GC want to move him on...then we get them to pay a portion of it.

B) Where has this "only wants to play as a forward" come from? Sounds like gossip.

I'll reword my earlier post though - if Wright was available for a late pick, on a modest salary, and was open to the idea - I'd consider bring him across and trialling him down back in the reserves (whilst still having him on the list as injury cover for our diabolically injury-prone forward line).

 

[Stamos]

Umm what? We've been rebuilding for 15 years, I could name half the competition.

OK, so you're a troll then

 

[Stamos]

Things to work on?

Like being an AFL standard player?

Just because he's our player doesn't mean we have to have a cry anytime anyone doesn't rate one of our players.

So many sensitive easily triggered fans we have.

Not triggered, just think supporters should be sensible enough to not write off 20 year olds because they aren't dominating the competition.
But then you think we started our rebuild before Brisbane and St Kilda, so what's the point?

 

[CJMB]

Umm what? We've been rebuilding for 15 years, I could name half the competition.

I'm not sure you understand the term.

 

[El Topo]

Or its the sell now whole they still have a bit of value before they are worth nothing mindset.

There's more than a few teams that have started a rebuild after us and moved past us.

They were able to do that by being brutal and trading away players that had value but weren't going to take them to the next level.

They had draft captial galore to make moves.

In the past 12 months the club has introduced a senior coach who prioritises mature football over 'potential', has invested in the top rated development coach in the business, and has decoupled from its second rate VFL affiliate - all in a year with no seconds competition or proper full team training. Selling an injured but highly rated 20 year old centreman 'while they still have a bit of value before they are worth nothing' in this context reeks of panic and impatience.

I think you've managed to deceive yourself by couching an emotional reaction in the language of cold headed pragmatism. Sounds like a lot of the arguments circa 2012 for a coaching change.

 

[HARKER]

Things to work on?
Like being an AFL standard player?
Just because he's our player doesn't mean we have to have a cry anytime anyone doesn't rate one of our players.
So many sensitive easily triggered fans we have.

Hang on a minute. One could flip that around back to you, just as easily.

We'll all have different views on players but to me, Dow ticks a lot of 'footballing' boxes and I have little doubt he'll come good....with us, or elsewhere.
I've always had doubts on O'Brien though, because as things were, aside of his kicking and running ability, there were too many other weaknesses that presented at the time....I emphasise 'at the time'

Someone like SPS is an AFL quality player and again...and as I put forward a couple of weeks ago, he'll make it...whether it be with us, or elsewhere.

There is no way known that all our recent first rounders can make it with us. We just have to be smart on the ones we keep and the ones we let go.

 

[CJMB]

A) I've got no idea what money he's on. Have had a quick search and I can't see anything to corroborate a figure of $500k. If it is in that territory, and GC want to move him on...then we get them to pay a portion of it.

B) Where has this "only wants to play as a forward" come from? Sounds like gossip.

I'll reword my earlier post though - if Wright was available for a late pick, on a modest salary, and was open to the idea - I'd consider bring him across and trialling him down back in the reserves (whilst still having him on the list as injury cover for our diabolically injury-prone forward line).

It's been through the media after his name started popping up as a potential GCS departure, I saw it most recently this morning. 2 years left at $500k a year is what they're saying, so there might be some compromise in whoever negotiates for his services. Probably something where if a club takes his full deal the picks required will be less substantial, if GCS has to foot the bill then they'll want a better pick coming their way.

I thought it was fairly well known, not dissimilar to Lobb, that he didn't want to ruck and just wanted to stay forward. After Witts arrived he hasn't really been needed to go in the middle (and with Day fit plus King & Corbett's arrival he's not playing at all)..

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

From left field, but if GWS miss the finals, there may be some stars who all of a sudden get home sick..

If we are after a small forward, why not ask the question of Toby Greene, he has been injury proned but IMO he is in the top 5 players in the comp and i would throw the kitchen sink to get him in Navy Blue.

 

[Blue__Balls]

It's been through the media after his name started popping up as a potential GCS departure, I saw it most recently this morning. 2 years left at $500k a year is what they're saying, so there might be some compromise in whoever negotiates for his services. Probably something where if a club takes his full deal the picks required will be less substantial, if GCS has to foot the bill then they'll want a better pick coming their way.

I thought it was fairly well known, not dissimilar to Lobb, that he didn't want to ruck and just wanted to stay forward. After Witts arrived he hasn't really been needed to go in the middle (and with Day fit plus King & Corbett's arrival he's not playing at all)..

Well - if he's only wanting to play forward then that pretty well puts paid to our interest in him. And I imagine he'll have plenty of suitors with teams like Collingwood, Essendon and NM in particular desperate for key forwards. Even Hawthorn might have a little nibble.

Might have been Harker or Arrow who suggested finding a failed forward to repurpose as a KPD a few weeks back, and the idea has taken root in my head. Seems an astute approach. Quality defenders require more outlay, draftees require development time. But a key forward who is on the outer costs very little, and should be physically capable of making the shift without too much time required.

 

[Ciccio]

Butler is keeping him out of the side, that's no disgrace

Everytime he plays, he hits the scoreboard more often than not, applies good pressure and tackles and has a massive tank

According to Tom Morris (foxsports) Lonie is a key trade target for the doggies who have made it known that they are after a small forward. Apparently 2 other clubs interested in him also.

Trade Whispers: Financial twist in Suns hopes of selling top-10 pick, AFL veteran could march on

Trade Whispers: Financial twist in Suns hopes of selling top-10 pick, AFL veteran could march on

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[fnm_just a man]

LONG POST WARNING

A lot of people on here discussing Paddy Dow's future. I rarely post here, but I'm a long time lurker and I feel compelled to share my take.

I see a lot of similarities between myself and Paddy in terms of character and personality types, especially during the ages of 18-21. Leaving high school, full of potential and expectation and a few years down that track not really living up to those lofty expectations.

At 18, I enrolled in a multi-year university degree, securing a comfortable medium-term future with the guise of fulfilling my potential.

Similarly at 18, Dow signed a 3-year extension to his 2-year draftee deal before he had played a senior AFL game. He knew he was going to be on an AFL list for 5 years before even playing a game for premiership points. For comparison, the next year our superstar #1 pick Sam Walsh signed a 2-year extension, one month into his AFL career after bursting onto the professional scene.

Sometimes too much security and too much time can be a bad thing, as it takes the pressure off people to go out there and push themselves on a daily basis. It can breed complacency in an individual, especially in Dow's case when the clubs messaging at the time was all about development in the form of 'green shoots' - and the fact everyone was telling Paddy how good he was from the very beginning, nicknaming him Paddy 'Wow'. All while being referred to as part of a large group of 'promising kids'.

Everything was nice and cushy for Paddy for quite some time. It is so easy to see why there is a lack of intent. This is not just my personal observation, Diesel was quoted a few times in regards to Dow's maturity of mind and body, I trust his judgement and his comments pass my eye test. It just seems our club had coddled Dow for too long.

Honestly I don't mean to tear shreds off Dow in this analysis, as I have tread a similar path myself.

This long winded run up leads me to where I am today, my steepest learning curve has been once a landed a proper job (in my field) - on probation as almost every recruit is - and I was expected to perform to a high standard from the get go, the fact that I was on a shorter leash meant that time was of the essence. It was that environmental shift that kicked my ass into gear, and now at 24 I feel that I am starting to reach that potential professed to me my whole life.

I feel that a fresh start at a new club is seriously what Paddy needs, as his time at Carlton is devoid of urgency and expectation in the present, but is synonymous with education and coddling. So many players have reference being traded or delisted as the moment the 'penny dropped'. Taking his 2-year contract with him to an older club - say Geelong, rumoured to be looking at him - is the perfect leash length to get Paddy into a different mentality, which breeds urgency - while removing that #3 draft pick pressure on his shoulders. Development isn't linear, sometimes it has barriers or road blocks and needs a jump start.

This is what I feel he needs to do in order to reach his potential. Otherwise he may end up an under-developed 23 year old in football's wilderness in 2 years time when his current contract expires.

Honestly I don't know how close to the mark I am, I could be barking up the wrong tree entirely, but I just see the similarities with myself screaming at me. I just hope he has good people in his corner (inside and outside the club) that know him well and can advise him on what is best for him.

I'm also not saying we should push him out the door, just food for thought that should be considered in this conversation.

Apologies for the over-sharing of my personal mental battles.

TL;DR - Maybe we aren't the best club to help Paddy reach his lofty potential. It may well be in Dow's best interest to seek a trade away from the Blues.

Agree wholeheartedly with the contract extensions for first-year players and the risk it can pose in that regard. The club felt under the pump to lock them away, no doubt.

I guess we all function differently. Be great to know if they judged Dow’s extension on the effort he put in or whether it was simply on the assumption he’d be a gun for other reasons.

I’d like to think a new club is not the only answer. Certainly some figure it out themselves as they ‘mature’. Wait and see, I guess. Plenty before him have given their all but just not quite been up to it as well, as will plenty after him. No shame in that.

Fingers crossed he achieves what he wants to achieve, wherever that may be (hopefully with us!).

 

[fnm_just a man]

According to Tom Morris (foxsports) Lonie is a key trade target for the doggies who have made it known that they are after a small forward. Apparently 2 other clubs interested in him also.

Trade Whispers: Financial twist in Suns hopes of selling top-10 pick, AFL veteran could march on

Trade Whispers: Financial twist in Suns hopes of selling top-10 pick, AFL veteran could march on

www.foxsports.com.au

Good for us, I reckon. Doesn’t offer any more than what we already have, imo.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Dow is copping it because of how absurdly overrated draft picks are. In those last couple of months before that draft Cam Rayner was better than Dustin Martin, and worth twice as much (or so it went).

Just to be clear my point isn't stop picking on Dow, my point is stop overrating draft picks and you won't be so disappointed in the kids we pick

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Everyone would take Dow as a developing midfielder on their list.

Explosive pace. Excellent ball winner at the stoppages.

He has the attributes to be an A grader. Just because he's been struck down with injury this season doesn't change the fact that he has the talent and attributes to be a very good player.

I don’t disagree with any of this, but I do find it quite funny how you can be so half empty with a guy like Papley yet can speak so glowingly about Dow who has shown next to nothing in comparison.

 

[Arr0w]

According to Tom Morris (foxsports) Lonie is a key trade target for the doggies who have made it known that they are after a small forward. Apparently 2 other clubs interested in him also.

Trade Whispers: Financial twist in Suns hopes of selling top-10 pick, AFL veteran could march on

Trade Whispers: Financial twist in Suns hopes of selling top-10 pick, AFL veteran could march on

www.foxsports.com.au

Not surprised, kid can football

 

[murphster]

We need that pacy defensive runner, but I suppose it's probably a more interesting question to discuss where exactly we need them to be. Do we truly need them off the back flank, or do we need them - their disposal and their pace - off the wing, or even on the HFF at a push?

Every kick you slot straight to a marking target or ball you win clear into space is its own form of defending. If you're kicking the goal, your opponent can't.

Hmmm...

Another one that would be very nice to get hold of but is contracted to 2022 is Lachie Sholl, I suspect Adelaide pulled the trigger on Sholl at pick 64 in the 2018 draft because they knew we had a pick at 66 and probably would have taken him, instead we took Finbar.

Would be the perfect addition to Walsh on the other wing with his elite foot skills on both sides of his body and his fantastic work ethic to get better, the fact he is the son of a former player doesn’t hurt either, this kid is everything our Lachie on the wing should be but isn’t for whatever reason.

Will be very interesting to see who lines up on Sholl this week will it be Walsh or will we give Cottrell the chance to really step up and beat a player of similar age, would love to see Cotts get the job and try and negate Sholls elite ball use while also trying to hurt him the other way, if Cotts can learn some composure and how to use space better I think he could really become a player, let’s see how he goes.

 

[Jeremias]

St Kilda, Port, Brisbane.

None of these teams started a rebuild after we did in 2015.

I'd go deeper into analysing the names, but there's really no point. You're just being silly now.

 

[Jeremias]

Umm what? We've been rebuilding for 15 years, I could name half the competition.

And there we have it. The real motive comes out eventually.

You're trolling again. Just stop it.

 

[THE_GUN]

I'd trade Gov to be honest. He's surplus to our needs, and he just doesn't work hard enough at all.
North are going to lose Brown, so they might have a look at him.

The question would be who would take him and at what trade value ?

on 2020 performance's Blues would be lucky to get pick below #40

 

[murphster]

Is it too late to knock on GWS's door for Coniglio?
His form this year isn't representative of the player he is.
GWS - Best list with so many quality mids, yet......not very good. Goes to show that it's not always about the cattle alone.

I don't want us to be a carbon copy of the GWS team - So much talent.....So little heart. At least that's what's been on display, this year to date.

This is exactly why Graham suits us down to the core, heart and hardness with elite two way running and good disposal.

 

[THE_GUN]

Difference is Kelly went into an elite system that is renowned for turning players around.
We are not Geelong.

Dangerfield should have taken notice , Worst kick at goal for a player of his ability

 

[murphster]

I wouldn't be averse to it. Comeback on the understating of basically captaining the Reserves (like the old days) and be ready made depth if Doc got injured for example. Still think he has a year or two left playing off half-back - or even a sneaky forward.

At least he can kick.

His kicking for goal is really good could show a few of our players about keeping your head over the ball and not leaning back, Martin I’m talking about you.

 

[murphster]

I understand especially that he requested a trade to us, but I hope our list management aren't so focused again on one player and then we miss on a Butler type

Yeah exactly right, as far as I’m concerned we enquire but the second they ask for anything over our first walk away and look elsewhere, shit we could always take his brother in the draft.