List Mgmt. 2020 Trade Thread - Part I

[Impatient Saint]

Running is not his problem kicking the ball to one of our players is.

Ratten was impressed with his work rate ( hence why he got JLT game )but there are a lot of them
in front for mine ...love Ratts but there have been some mysterious selections/ non selections early on.

Yeah he really hasnt gone too far away from Richo's selections apart from the 5 new additions, although its still early days and I hope Ratts is a lot football smarter than Richardson is/was...

 

[plugger66]

Yeah he really hasnt gone too far away from Richo's selections apart from the 5 new additions, although its still early days and I hope Ratts is a lot football smarter than Richardson is/was...

Maybe we are the ones who don’t know as much as either of them. Who would have guessed. I really think it’s arrogant that a supporter who would see no more than a game a week thinks they know more than guys who see them daily and are thought good enough to be employed.

 

[Remboy]

Maybe we are the ones who don’t know as much as either of them. Who would have guessed. I really think it’s arrogant that a supporter who would see no more than a game a week thinks they know more than guys who see them daily and are thought good enough to be employed.

So you’re saying Ive been wasting my time emailing the club the preview thread every week. I was sure they used it to pick the team.

 

[plugger66]

So you’re saying Ive been wasting my time emailing the club the preview thread every week. I was sure they used it to pick the team.

Not everyone is wrong. You are most likely right especially if you have an identical side to mine

 

[Diehard Saint]

They are completely different players Byrnes is explosive out of stoppage, Bytel is your accumulation type elite
hands , vision , short kicks either foot hits targets.

Well good. Let’s see both

 

[gringo2011]

I've never really seen brad play a good game, but that said I don't watch adelaide much at all. His highlight vids look very middle of the road. But I know none of that matters if he gets the job done week in week out. I'm curious to hear other people's opinions on him though, I'm definitely not against the idea

He wins contested possession like a boss. He has probably won more CPs than our whole side over the last 5 years. Average disposal if he has to kick though. He's copping the same thing Rocky did, they assume that all his possessions are low hurt factor but that's not his role. He wins first possessions and dishes off to their good users on the outside. I just hate the idea of paying a lot for established talent and losing the chance at drafting our own. Also have to pay massive overs which end up biting down the track.

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

He wins contested possession like a boss. He has probably won more CPs than our whole side over the last 5 years. Average disposal if he has to kick though. He's copping the same thing Rocky did, they assume that all his possessions are low hurt factor but that's not his role. He wins first possessions and dishes off to their good users on the outside. I just hate the idea of paying a lot for established talent and losing the chance at drafting our own. Also have to pay massive overs which end up biting down the track.

well definitely fills a need, and if we make finals this year he could come a fair bit cheaper

 

[gringo2011]

Its pretty sad isn't it when its only round Three and we are onto the trade debate , wouldn't it be nice if we could have at least got half way through the season before we were trying to ship blokes off .
It really just shows the frustration that us poor bastards are going through and just being saints supporters in general.

At least Dmac would have a crack

I think we compare to North last year, a big flood of new senior talent came in and looked meh. This year they are the opposite, they look like a unit and are paying off the investment.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Yeah he really hasnt gone too far away from Richo's selections apart from the 5 new additions, although its still early days and I hope Ratts is a lot football smarter than Richardson is/was...

I don't think that's particularly true.
Ratts has moved Long to half back, dropped Dunny, played Marsh forward then in the middle, and a hole bunch of stuff that others have already mentioned.

When you look at other teams that make significant list changes it takes them 10 or more games to get their system going.
We've had a huge alterations to our 22 and a new game style imposed too.

Ratts is trying heaps to find a synergy, possibly even too much.
The problem is that he's still trying to figure out who his best 22 are.

I don't think comparisons with his predecessor are appropriate 3 games in. Ratts needs a period of faith, as is granted any new coach.
The pieces will come together so try to not be too impatient saint..

 

[ScrappyDo]

On the Ross front, Trading him could open up a few fronts. I think it goes back to go forward though. Unless it brings a Wines/Crouch in. It would also play our hand at the draft as we would have to go for a mid.

Trade 1:
Essendon give: Pick 15
St Kilda give: Pick 67 and Ross

Trade 2:
St Kilda Trade: Pick 15
GWS Trade: Pick 29 and Caldwell

Trade 3:
Port get: Hately and pick 44
GWS get: Future 1st and Pick 37

Trade 4:
Port get: a future 2nd, pick 73 and Luke Dustan
Stk get: Ollie Wines and pick 36

Trade 5:
Port give: pick 21 and 44
Stk give: pick 29 and pick 36, Shane Savage, Dan McKenzie,

Trade 7:
Port give: Future 1st and a future 2nd
Saints give: pick 8

Trade 8:
Saints give: future 1st, (Port) and pick 44
WB give: Pick 3

Trade 9:
Geelong give: 9 and 11
Saints give: 3

1.5 Mil at one of:
1. Williams
2. Crouch, (only 1.1M)
3. De Goey
4. Gaff

Draft picks:
Pick 9 - Nathan O Driscoll
Pick 11 - Tanner Brunh

Picks 9 and 11 would be perfect. But can you do it in 7 moves or less, sans Dmac and Sav?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

He wins contested possession like a boss. He has probably won more CPs than our whole side over the last 5 years. Average disposal if he has to kick though. He's copping the same thing Rocky did, they assume that all his possessions are low hurt factor but that's not his role. He wins first possessions and dishes off to their good users on the outside. I just hate the idea of paying a lot for established talent and losing the chance at drafting our own. Also have to pay massive overs which end up biting down the track.

Last season, Brad won 243 contested possessions in 22 games, Dunstan 207 in 18.
Crouch, 117 clearances, Dunstan 111.
The difference?
Crouch 665 disposals, Dunstan 402. Yep , he can receive and use the ball too.
And 11 goals to 4.

He's like Dunstan with a bit of Seb Ross chucked on.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

On the Ross front, Trading him could open up a few fronts. I think it goes back to go forward though. Unless it brings a Wines/Crouch in. It would also play our hand at the draft as we would have to go for a mid.

Trade 1:
Essendon give: Pick 15
St Kilda give: Pick 67 and Ross

Trade 2:
St Kilda Trade: Pick 15
GWS Trade: Pick 29 and Caldwell

Trade 3:
Port get: Hately and pick 44
GWS get: Future 1st and Pick 37

Trade 4:
Port get: a future 2nd, pick 73 and Luke Dustan
Stk get: Ollie Wines and pick 36

Trade 5:
Port give: pick 21 and 44
Stk give: pick 29 and pick 36, Shane Savage, Dan McKenzie,

Trade 7:
Port give: Future 1st and a future 2nd
Saints give: pick 8

Trade 8:
Saints give: future 1st, (Port) and pick 44
WB give: Pick 3

Trade 9:
Geelong give: 9 and 11
Saints give: 3

1.5 Mil at one of:
1. Williams
2. Crouch, (only 1.1M)
3. De Goey
4. Gaff

Draft picks:
Pick 9 - Nathan O Driscoll
Pick 11 - Tanner Brunh

Getting trade one over the line will take until 5 seconds before the cut off .
Dodoro's best offer, pick 376 and a beanie signed by Tim Watson.

 

[gringo2011]

Last season, Brad won 243 contested possessions in 22 games, Dunstan 207 in 18.
Crouch, 117 clearances, Dunstan 111.
The difference?
Crouch 665 disposals, Dunstan 402. Yep , he can receive and use the ball too.
And 11 goals to 4.

He's like Dunstan with a bit of Seb Ross chucked on.

He seems to win contested possession more. He looks like he wins the ball more decisively maybe.

 

[Gosaints12]

Picks 9 and 11 would be perfect. But can you do it in 7 moves or less, sans Dmac and Sav?

No. I’d get rid of those two as they are just money suckers. Sav was good for us and the Hawks, but he has outgrown his needs. DMac is on 400k and we need that money. This is so we can chuck it at the 4 names listed there in Crouch, De Goey, Williams, and Gaff.

 

[Gosaints12]

Getting trade one over the line will take until 5 seconds before the cut off .
Dodoro's best offer, pick 376 and a beanie signed by Tim Watson.

He’ll do it, he needs another midfielder. Also just line the other deals up until he says yes and have them full like dominos.

 

[ScrappyDo]

No. I’d get rid of those two as they are just money suckers. Sav was good for us and the Hawks, but he has outgrown his needs. DMac is on 400k and we need that money. This is so we can chuck it at the 4 names listed there in Crouch, De Goey, Williams, and Gaff.

Easy there dude. Dmac is not on 400k...

 

[Moral Decay]

He seems to win contested possession more. He looks like he wins the ball more decisively maybe.

Maybe Brad looks better because he gives the ball to a team mate in the clear or in a bettrr position or maybe just not 4 feet backwards to the feet of a team mate who's already under pressure?

 

[lewdogs]

Look I'm no football expert but it seems pretty obvious to me that midfielders win you games of football.

With that in mind it's astounding how bad we have been at drafting these players.

If Bytel can't force his way into the side soon I'm not going to lie, it concerns me.

What is our future midfield going to look like? At some stage we are actually going to have to draft a few decent players in there.

 

[Impatient Saint]

I don't think that's particularly true.
Ratts has moved Long to half back, dropped Dunny, played Marsh forward then in the middle, and a hole bunch of stuff that others have already mentioned.

When you look at other teams that make significant list changes it takes them 10 or more games to get their system going.
We've had a huge alterations to our 22 and a new game style imposed too.

Ratts is trying heaps to find a synergy, possibly even too much.
The problem is that he's still trying to figure out who his best 22 are.

I don't think comparisons with his predecessor are appropriate 3 games in. Ratts needs a period of faith, as is granted any new coach.
The pieces will come together so try to not be too impatient saint..

Steady up old fella - I wasnt suggesting Ratts doesnt deserve time, I was/am his biggest advocate. Just by the way Long was tried at HB last year, as was Marsh forward and in the middle in the GWS game. You misinterpreted my suggesting I would like to see the younger players showing promise get a game.

 

[Premium]

He wins contested possession like a boss. He has probably won more CPs than our whole side over the last 5 years. Average disposal if he has to kick though. He's copping the same thing Rocky did, they assume that all his possessions are low hurt factor but that's not his role. He wins first possessions and dishes off to their good users on the outside. I just hate the idea of paying a lot for established talent and losing the chance at drafting our own. Also have to pay massive overs which end up biting down the track.

Its amazing how some players rack up possessions while others may rack less but are more effective - is the players who they feed the ball to that make the difference.
Gibbs was a very good player at Carlton and he can't get going at all at the Crows.
Higgins moves from the Dogs as a average player and becomes a club champion at the Roos.

In our team we are currently happy with Butler and if anyone saw him play in Richmond's first flag , he had a hell of a season - but injury , form and a list full of elite forwards to get a game was not easy - Rioli , Castagna , Higgins , Pickett , Bolton , Stack , Edwards and having Martin , Lynch , Reiwolt , Caddy - you can see why he wanted out. - he is the first small forward I have seen since Milne that when it enters the forward line we are in with a chance and on the weekend he more contested possessions than anyone in our team. (11)

We currently have Brad Hill in the team and what I have seen it looks like it will take time to adjust to game style , but once they can all get it together we will compete with the best.
Ryder to me is a very good ruck but we have really a better all round ruck in Marshall and I think once we finish mucking around with the 22 , I would expect we will run with only one ruckman.

Our back they are still messing with as well - surely Geary , Paton , Webster become our regulars with Carlisle , Howard and Wilkie - Long will have to be good to get a slot and he hasn't showed it yet.
Hunter Clark will no doubt rotate from halfback to the midfield.

I expect this will be our final line up after finding the best 22

Geary - Howard - Webster
Paton - Carlisle - Hunter Clark
Hill - Jones - Hannebery
Billings - King - Battle
Butler - Membery - Gresham

Marshall - Ross - Steele

Wilkie - Lonie - Kent - Coffield

 

[ScrappyDo]

Steady up old fella - I wasnt suggesting Ratts doesnt deserve time, I was/am his biggest advocate. Just by the way Long was tried at HB last year, as was Marsh forward and in the middle in the GWS game. You misinterpreted my suggesting I would like to see the younger players showing promise get a game.

It's only round 4 young fella. Plenty of time.
Byrnes and Bytel will get a run soon, and Clav might get a look in late in the year.

 

[BrutThough]

Look I'm no football expert but it seems pretty obvious to me that midfielders win you games of football.

With that in mind it's astounding how had we have been at drafting these players.

If Bytel can't force his way into the side soon I'm not going to lie, it concerns me.

What is our future midfield going to look like? At some stage we are actually going to have to draft a few decent players in there.

I wouldn't be concerned. He has barely played for two years so expecting he can immediately break his way into the senior side off a few scratch matches is a bit unrealistic.

 

[plugger66]

Steady up old fella - I wasnt suggesting Ratts doesnt deserve time, I was/am his biggest advocate. Just by the way Long was tried at HB last year, as was Marsh forward and in the middle in the GWS game. You misinterpreted my suggesting I would like to see the younger players showing promise get a game.

I find people saying this as strange or funny. Promise? We have playing one prev year game in 3 months and none of us saw that. Well nearly most of us but for some strange reason we have more information than the guys selecting the side. No wonder people eventually want coaches sacked because they think they know more than the coach. I’m no fan of rats I also have nothing against him but the selectors and rats have all off us covered when we can see games. Young guys will be given a chance as soon as the selectors think they are ready.

 

[gringo2011]

Fagan for years had the lions kids playing an attacking/finals winning brand of football before they were ready to execute it properly or consistently (due to inexperience and incomplete physical development).

They took years of beatings against sides like ours (at the time full of mature, ordinary players), and are now reaping the rewards.

We should be doing the same now under our new coach- take the beatings now, drill the kids on a game style that will win finals and be patient.

Our sights should be firmly set on a goal of WINNING finals, not merely playing finals.

If that goal means a year extra of losses and no finals- so be it.

I actually think Ratts is doing that to be fair. He's not sending a hard tag on to players who are good. He's not sending 18 players back to sure up our defence to minimise losses etc.

Richo was all about stopping the avalanche of heavy defeats with the odd win against soft sides or ones that didn't turn up to play. Ratts seems to be setting up a game plan that will eventually start us winning games. I reckon watching Bruce at the Dogs you can see the Richo still ingrained in him. He looks lost holding position up forward. He was always running back to sure up defence and then running forward where his opponent couldn't predict where he'd be. He'll have to learn to relearn how to play as a KPF that stays home.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Collingwood did it, Richmond as well. All were below us a few years ago. In fact the only sides that haven't jumped us are Carlton and Gold Coast. Both are getting better. It makes me nervous. I have been shitting my brother and Blues mates for years about their shitness. I can't stomach them jumping us. We have to improve quickly for my sanity.

The good news is we are only a couple of top players away from having a top team.
The spine moving forward is pretty decent.

Howard Carlisle. ( Battle , Wilkie )

Marshall ( Abbott )

King , Membrey ( Battle ).

This is where we needed to get to years ago.
These are the type of players who are potentially hard to get, and often slow to develop, or fail to develop.

Rowell shows how quickly a mid can come on. When did you last see a tall forward get drafted and have an immediate impact?
Even less likely a ruck or a defender.

Throw in a couple of top mids ( and hopefully at least 1 person on our list will be that ), and the rest of our gops fill in the holes nicely.
If we can get our midfield to start winning ,( and we saw it against the dogs ) everything else will just fall into place.