List Mgmt. 2020 Trade Thread - Part II

[The_Steadier]

Music to my ears from ratts:

"We'll probably get a tougher draw and we might get some injuries, there'll be different challenges for our footy club next year," he said.

"You've got to put yourself out there. Do you want to be good or do you want to be great?

"We need to keep pushing the boundaries and sometimes we will fail, but we'll fail having a crack.

"We'll go for a few things in the trade period.

"It'd be good to get another midfielder in, that would really help us, and maybe pushing them more into the forward line so we could get some more goal-scoring power as well."


So ecstatic we aren't going to play it careful and are going to push all of chips onto the table in a genuine crack at a flag in the next few years.

We'd go backwards if all we did was low risk stuff like bring in caldwell and stop there.

The goal isn't to simply improve the team each year.
The goal is to improve the team each year above and beyond the improvement all other finals teams will have had as well.

So happy to see ratts is smart enough to know that small improvements (by taking low risks) actually sends us backwards.

 

[XhazzafootyX]

I’d be targeting Ainsworth or sexton from the suns.

 

[BrutThough]

Definitely like the idea of moving Billings forward at the expense of Kent or Lonie who should be depth only if we are to challenge for top 4. Would love to add to the midfield to allow that move to happen.

Ratts forecast this in his press conference last night.

Wants JB, Gresh and even Steele to spend time forward since they are goal threats but we couldn't do that this year due to how thin the midfield is.

Sounds like ideally we bring in one or two more midfielders so we can rotate JB/Gresh forward and Kent goes out.

 

[bird_man]

Ratts even said at the start of this hear he wanted to get Gresh forward a lot more but it didn't eventuate.

A forward line of Buter, Gresham and Billings a bit more would be very damaging.

 

[Mowman]

Ratts even said at the start of this hear he wanted to get Gresh forward a lot more but it didn't eventuate.

A forward line of Buter, Gresham and Billings a bit more would be very damaging.

Kent and Lonie are not the answer if we are to take the next step

 

[Ducky Tie]

Ratts even said at the start of this hear he wanted to get Gresh forward a lot more but it didn't eventuate.

A forward line of Buter, Gresham and Billings a bit more would be very damaging.

I think if Billings is going to play forward he will benefit from a pre season training there. He seems to be a player that relies on routine and great preparation. He doesn’t look great when he gets thrown between positions. When he played forward consistently in 2017 he looked good there. Has looked good too when playing consistently on a wing. Hasn’t looked like the same player this year when we’ve thrown him forward. Feel like we’ll get a much better forward return from him next year.

 

[triggering bro]

Like more the idea of moving Billings on.

Similar trajectory to Josh Bruce. Needs to pull his finger out or Gags will cash in while he still has a little value.

 

[gringo2011]

I've been miles behind on this thread all year and this was the first post that came up for me today when opening it (from July 12) and you ranked us as the 13th best list, and even worse than the uber-trainwreck that is North, and 8 spots worse than the sinking ship that is Essendon!!??

I reckon Essendon had the list but they are broken. Should have been a 4th to 8th place side IMO. Injury hurt them but they are mentally broken. North on a full list were competitive. Goldy, Cunners, Brown, Higgins, Ziebell and some good youth and kids. Again injury stopped their best and coaching dramas like sacking assistants and Shaw struggling meant they have torn up the plan and decided to start over. You can get seduced by ladder finish and ignore list quality. GWS still have a better list, the Dees have a better list. Both didn't play finals.

On pure talent both were ahead of us IMO, we have Ratts who covers a multitude of sins.

Also shows how far we have come, Steele was our only top shelf mid this year and at the start of 2020 he was a B grade tagger who looked lost when he didn't have a job. Jones was poor kicking HBF, Seb was our best mid, Billings was Billings a better than average outside player. Gresh was a messy forward pocket learning to play mid and Hanners was a broken down hack. We grabbed Hill thinking he'd be close to elite on the outside.

Forward we had Membrey as our only top shelf forward who is still only worth about 35 goals a season. we cobbled a forward line with an unplayed King, Butler who was a VFL player at the Tigers, Lonie who no-one can decide if he deserves a best 22 spot, Parker, Kent, Hind and sometimes Battle.

We had a ruck with Marshall and a geriatric Ryder trying to steal his spot.

Our defence was Savage, Webster, Roberton, Carlisle and ring in Howard, we hoped Hunter would keep improving and hoped that Coffield wasn't a bust. That little guy that looked like Richo seemed a bit nothing. Then there was old Geary who no-one liked when he was at his peak and he was waning. Wilkie the promising rookie that filled in last year when Carlisle went down.

It shows how much improvement was made and not where a lot of people thought it would come from. Hunter, Coffield, Paton and Marshall all stepped up. Ryder, Howard and Butler all became top end players. Battle and Wilkie probably were quite as good as 2019 but still serviceable, Steele just went from ordinary to gun in a season. A lot of good ordinary talent played to the role we needed the to.

I think we are still pretty cobbled together to be honest but as far as systems and structure goes we are getting closer. We probably need two Steele quality players for the mids (maybe Hunter Clark) to be a genuine premiership threat, King to go next level and a solid small forward (maybe Gresham), replace or sign Carlisle and a second tall forward probably does make sense. Our backline is pretty good IMO.

We are getting there but aren't the finished article.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

I’d be surprised if we didn’t get a combo of Tarantino and or Cogs and or Caldwell.

 

[gringo2011]

Jeez, what were you smoking when you wrote this list Gringo?

It's on quality of the list not ladder position. Read the comments, doesn't look that bad. Underestimated the growth in Brisbane and probably underrated Carlton a bit.

Long term I don't think marshalls lack of tapout ability will hurt us at all.
Our midfield is currently too weak to handle romas lack of tapouts, but once we fix our midfield it will be a non issue.

Just as it is for all other top teams- nankervis isn't a great tap ruckman, but it doesn't matter when you have dusty, prestia, cotchin, edwards etc.

I'm sold on Marshall as a second ruck forward with a true ruckman since having Paddy.

 

[gringo2011]

I want Seb Ross gone. His basic skills and game awareness cost us time and time again. Ive had a gut full of watching it. I don't care how much effort he puts in. Get rid of him.

Did you watch last night? Him and Savage were two of the cleanest on the field. It was good night for the whipping boys.

 

[Ducky Tie]

I'm sold on Marshall as a second ruck forward with a true ruckman since having Paddy.

If we can find a ruckman better than Marshall then I’m with you but there aren’t many out there. I think it works because Ryder is probably the second or third best tap ruckman in the comp.

 

[bird_man]

It's on quality of the list not ladder position. Read the comments, doesn't look that bad. Underestimated the growth in Brisbane and probably underrated Carlton a bit.



I'm sold on Marshall as a second ruck forward with a true ruckman since having Paddy.

I get that what you were trying to do but if find it very puzzling how you could have Richmond so far down that list.

You have Essendon in front of Richmond and Brisbane??

Not sure I get your love for their list.

Us behind North is very strange. It was obvious to almost everyone but North they were plugging gaps.

 

[The_Steadier]

I'm sold on Marshall as a second ruck forward with a true ruckman since having Paddy.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking that the current setup works with any old decent tap ruckman in ryders place.

The current setup works because ryder is a truly exceptional tap ruckman, who is also great around the ground and dangerous up forward in the air and on the deck.

The current setup does not work anywhere near as well (or add any benefit) without every one of those elements that ryder brings.

If we aren't bringing in a ruckman that is very close to the equal of ryder in every single one of those areas- taps, forward and around the ground... the current setup isn't any better for the team than simply having roma solo.

Not saying we shouldn't persist with the current 2 ruck setup- just saying that it only works because ryder is exceptional.
Unless we replace him with an equally exceptional equivalent- it's not worth doing.

 

[Cleanupsoup]

What made Paddy and Rowan work was that they were both versatile and made up for each others weaknesses. Paddy is maybe the best centre bounce ruck (behind probably Nic Nat), while Rowan is a big bull at stoppages. They could both roll forward and be damaging and are good marks. There isn't another ruck in the game that could do what Paddy did this year

 

[CarnTheSAINTERS]

why would we get Ben brown for next year when Ben King will come next trade period?

 

[gringo2011]

I get that what you were trying to do but if find it very puzzling how you could have Richmond so far down that list.

You have Essendon in front of Richmond and Brisbane??

Not sure I get your love for their list.

Us behind North is very strange. It was obvious to almost everyone but North they were plugging gaps.

I watch a lot of the Tigers and apart from Dusty they don't have a lot of superstars. Lynch, Edwards, Cotchin, Prestia etc are all very good players but they are a systems driven side. They are more like us with less top end but incredibly deep quality players. On pure list quality they aren't that good. I think Brisbane have stepped up a lot this year, guys like Berry have taken that next step so end of season Brisbane looks a lot better than start of season Brisbane. I thought they might struggle without Hodge but they seem to have held up well. They were harder to get a 100% read on playing so much at home IMO. Next year will give a better read on them as far as list goes. They might win a premiership before then though.

I actually reckon I under estimated Port the most. Their kids are great and their older brigade are incredibly deep and solid. I'm not sure if their coaching can get it done but for firepower from multiple sources, deep midfield and solid defence they have the pieces. Can't see Collingwood winning a GF with their lack of scoring, Brisbane could kick themselves out of it. Richmond don't look as hungry and the Cats look deep and experienced but really hard to get a read on as well. They looked like they panicked from past fails last week but looked the best side we played all year. I think the Cats are likely to play in the GF, they should account for a young Brisbane but can't see them getting over the Tigers or Port.

 

[DT_35]

Preuss on the market is 1 year too early for us honestly. If it were next year we’d give him a chance IMO

 

[CarnTheSAINTERS]

Don’t see how bytel, Caldwell, Hunter, Steele, Ross, Gresh, Jones all get good minutes inside.

 

[Stewart66]

Battle is no depth player imo he is in our best 10 players and would rather him forward than Brown

and can play multiple roles .

Think we look a lot different with Bytel , Byrnes , Connolly, Bell developmenot combined with the year
Clark , Coffield , Paton have had ....all about increasing depth of talent .

 

[Savage Kent]

Like more the idea of moving Billings on.

I've been thinking for a few weeks. I'd be open to trading Billings if the end result was that we got a gun inside mid the calibre of Hopper, Taranto or Wines. I wouldn't trade him just for the sake of it though.

I like Billings but we need a dominant inside mid more than an inconsistent cherry on top player. Feel like those types are easier to bring in when your team is contending.

 

[gringo2011]

I get that what you were trying to do but if find it very puzzling how you could have Richmond so far down that list.

You have Essendon in front of Richmond and Brisbane??

Not sure I get your love for their list.

Us behind North is very strange. It was obvious to almost everyone but North they were plugging gaps.

North had a better list on paper at the start of 2020, it didn't eventuate to play to it's potential. Injury hurt but it seemed more than that, sides that get close and fall over seem to lose energy and momentum, Adelaide are an example of that.

Higgins, Cunnington, Goldy are close to elite or at least A grade. You saw what they did round one with their full list. The next tier down is solid with guys like Mc Donald and Simpkin stepping up, Dumont becoming solid, Tarrant still good. At the start of 2020 ben Brown had just been rolled for the Coleman in the last home and away rounds, Tarryn Thomas, Larkey, Zurharr had all come on last year. The next tier down guys like Williams, Hall, Pittard and Polec didn't quite fire to expectation and Wood just couldn't get right. Kids like Curtis Taylor and LDU looked like they might take the next step.

They sacked all their assistants on the eve of the revived season and it sounds like Shaw has been in some serious personal battles. I don't know what went on there but their whole burn the place to the ground rebuild idea was a mystifying approach, perhaps something to do with Shaw having time away.

 

[bird_man]

North had a better list on paper at the start of 2020, it didn't eventuate to play to it's potential. Injury hurt but it seemed more than that, sides that get close and fall over seem to lose energy and momentum, Adelaide are an example of that.

Higgins, Cunnington, Goldy are close to elite or at least A grade. You saw what they did round one with their full list. The next tier down is solid with guys like Mc Donald and Simpkin stepping up, Dumont becoming solid, Tarrant still good. At the start of 2020 ben Brown had just been rolled for the Coleman in the last home and away rounds, Tarryn Thomas, Larkey, Zurharr had all come on last year. The next tier down guys like Williams, Hall, Pittard and Polec didn't quite fire to expectation and Wood just couldn't get right. Kids like Curtis Taylor and LDU looked like they might take the next step.

They sacked all their assistants on the eve of the revived season and it sounds like Shaw has been in some serious personal battles. I don't know what went on there but their whole burn the place to the ground rebuild idea was a mystifying approach, perhaps something to do with Shaw having time away.

Righto mate, I won't argue with you about it but it looks way off the mark to me.

 

[Lightsxo]

Next year is a contract year from Billings.
He’s going to play unreal as usual.
Keep him and play him forward 75% of the time and a run through the middle at times like we did in 2017.

He had 60 (!!!) shots on goal that year but kicked 23.36 (smh lol) and god know how many oof/kicks that came short.

His best role is him as the high half forward that can run in and finish on goal.

 

[bird_man]

Don’t see how bytel, Caldwell, Hunter, Steele, Ross, Gresh, Jones all get good minutes inside.

Gresh will go forward.

If Billings goes forward too it leaves us with a wing to rotate them through which most clubs often do.

Caldwell probably gets limited time in the middle until he builds.

It's a long term move but I think he'll go past a lot of them just like we are starting to see Hunter do.