List Mgmt. 2020 Young Talent time

[Joao]

Our KPF stocks aren't getting any younger either 28, 28 and 26 and two of them very injury prone...

Yep, no secret Snuffaluphagus and I are big on drafting a high end KPF ASAP to get them developing for this exact reason.

 

[Scham]

So we take Chapman to replace Pearce or Hamling. Sorted.

 

[Walkingwounded]

Not sure what you mean re: Hogan? He left Melbourne because of off-field stuff. They clearly haven't replaced him properly since.
.

Melb weren’t upset to see Hogan leave, and were more than compensated.

At the time he was 3rd Tall Forward at Melb behind McDonald and up and coming Weideman.

Not in their best 22, whilst also injured, and at the time likely to be in ours if his injury came good, given our own Injury list issues and Forward line at the time.

Melb were adequately compensated.

Re First Round draft.. I think best available and with the most upside, after that needs Basis.

I haven’t settled on exactly who we should pick with our first as the jostling for positions in the first round is yet to happen.

Likewise for our second pick.

I’ve flagged I like Neale at our 2nd pick, but he is quite young. We have some good Ruc/Fwd on our coaching ranks, so expect them to have a good feel for exactly what to look for, and with our Draft team expect some good things on Draft night.

 

[heypenny]

Both Walker and Western are good need fits. But in the unlikely event that silly bids come I hope the club has an open mind.

Yeah completely agree. I feel that Henry went a little earlier than he should of last year. Carlton knew we had to bid on him as we traded out our second round pick (so our next pick was in the 50s). Our strategy was obvious. If we had kept pick 22 - it leaves a bit of doubt in teams' mind that we won't match. It gave Carlton more time to facilitate offers or bids for their pick 10.

My preference is to keep our pick positions till draft day. Let's keep an open mind and possibly make the most of a team that's desperate on the day. Almost like Port Adelaide making the most of our position when an early bid came in for Henry.

 

[apuchar]

We didn't give up pick nine for Henry, we gave up the points value of pick nine, which is a very different thing.

 

[ilikepotatoes]

Melb weren’t upset to see Hogan leave, and were more than compensated.

At the time he was 3rd Tall Forward at Melb behind McDonald and up and coming Weideman.

Not in their best 22, whilst also injured, and at the time likely to be in ours if his injury came good, given our own Injury list issues and Forward line at the time.

That's just wrong. I'm sorry, but you could argue he was a 2nd tall behind McDonald, but he was clearly ahead of Weideman.

Hogan on talent and form at the time of the trade is best 22 at every club in the league. He hasn't shown that here, but jeez he scored 47 goals that year.

 

[Walkingwounded]

So... are you saying we should draft Chapman?

Nope what made you think that.

I personally think their will be some interesting players at 10, or whatever it ends up being.

My preference is for highly skilled players by foot. I’m ok with where our inside Mid scenario is at, and not confident any better inside Mids are in this draft either.

As I think it was you who once indicated best available is a term meaning different things to different recruiters depending on what they value in a player.

Having a high work ethic and desire to be the best you can, but also playing for your team mates, and club would be good attributes which are “soft” attributes not a measurable one.

 

[Walkingwounded]

That's just wrong. I'm sorry, but you could argue he was a 2nd tall behind McDonald, but he was clearly ahead of Weideman.
.

Mmmmm

Redirect Notice

 

[Van_Dyke]

That's just wrong. I'm sorry, but you could argue he was a 2nd tall behind McDonald, but he was clearly ahead of Weideman.

Hogan on talent and form at the time of the trade is best 22 at every club in the league. He hasn't shown that here, but jeez he scored 47 goals that year.

weideman by the end of 2018 had played 1 great game, and 1 good game, which were admittedly in the two finals they won in 18. to say he was ahead of hogan was a ridiculous over-reaction at the time, let alone now. in 2018 Hogan kicked more goals than Weideman has for his career...

 

[Joao]

Melb weren’t upset to see Hogan leave, and were more than compensated.

At the time he was 3rd Tall Forward at Melb behind McDonald and up and coming Weideman.

Not in their best 22, whilst also injured, and at the time likely to be in ours if his injury came good, given our own Injury list issues and Forward line at the time.

Melb were adequately compensated.

Melbourne were happy to let him go purely because of off-field drama. You're kidding yourself if you think they wouldn't have wanted to keep him based on purely on-field performance. He kicked 47 goals that year and Weiderman played 1 good game in a final when Hogan was injured.

I'd argue Melbourne got well overs.

Mmmmm

Redirect Notice

This is an opinion piece. It doesn't in any way demonstrate Melbourne's valuation of him as a player at the time.

I am sure they thought Weiderman would come on and McDonald would continue his form but that is not remotely the same thing as thinking Jesse was behind either of them from a purely football standpoint.

 

[Paracleet]

Mmmmm

Redirect Notice

There is no mystery here. The article is simply wrong. Weiderman and MacDonald are not as good as Hogan and they were drinking their own bathwater getting talked into letting him go to buy a key defender as if that was really their problem.
Personally I think any club who ever trades a top ten pick for anything other than a inside or inside/out mid is mad. It's always the midfield stupid.

 

[Walkingwounded]

Melbourne were happy to let him go purely because of off-field drama. You're kidding yourself if you think they wouldn't have wanted to keep him based on purely on-field performance. He kicked 47 goals that year and Weiderman played 1 good game in a final when Hogan was injured.

I'd argue Melbourne got well overs.


This is an opinion piece. It doesn't in any way demonstrate Melbourne's valuation of him as a player at the time.

I am sure they thought Weiderman would come on and McDonald would continue his form but that is not remotely the same thing as thinking Jesse was behind either of them from a purely football standpoint.

But they moved on Jesse anyway.. he was still in contract If I remember.

They moved him on for a number of reasons, including thinking they had a ready made replacement, and he had an injury that is extremely tricky to recover fully from. Gee it took us a while to fix the foot.

 

[Joao]

But they moved on Jesse anyway.. he was still in contract If I remember.

They moved him on for a number of reasons, including thinking they had a ready made replacement, and he had an injury that is extremely tricky to recover fully from. Gee it took us a while to fix the foot.

Sure, but lets not pretend the replacement was near the top of the list. It was said then and is pretty clear now that the off-field issues and the foot featured WAY above whatever they thought of McDonald and Weiderman.

 

[Chris25]

I need to play nice since I’m a mod over there, but for those interested our friend Knightmare has admitted he doesn’t watch any non Victorian U18 football.

So Heath Chapman must be a hell of a player to still make his top 15. Lock him in for Fremantle then.

 

[Van_Dyke]

that was an interesting few pages to read in his thread, not going to lie.

 

[Dockeroo]

I need to play nice since I’m a mod over there, but for those interested our friend Knightmare has admitted he doesn’t watch any non Victorian U18 football.

So Heath Chapman must be a hell of a player to still make his top 15. Lock him in for Fremantle then.

Was that when he said he didn’t want to pay for any u18 football?
In fairness to him he is very good at replying to posters on his thread!

 

[Superkoops]

Depth is fine with me, but at a mid first round pick there will be a range of options rather than a stand out best available.

Logue was available for the final rounds this year, and I doubt Hamling has sat around waiting for the pandemic to pass before sorting out his ankle. Young is another returning soldier whose skills match what you identified as Chapman's.

That's a massive investment in defence the club would have made over a sustained period, especially when midfield and forward is performing at a comparatively low level.

The point I was trying to make, obviously not very well, was that if Chapman is best available at our pick then I have no problem selecting him. Despite what you say Hamling has a potentially career ending issue going on. I hope he gets on top of his issue but he has essentially been sitting around doing squat for months. He had a nasty staph infection and likely needs further surgery. The surgeon they want to see, he can’t get to being based in Melbourne. Knowing what the infections do to the bone means further surgery is even more complicated.

Hale was interviewed only a couple of weeks ago and ran through the long term injury players for next season and said the only one we won’t see for sometime is Hamling.

I agree we have more pressing needs but KPD cover isn’t too far down the list of requirements. Depending on what no. our first pick falls at there will likely be some other players we rate more highly.

 

[maccamk]

that was an interesting few pages to read in his thread, not going to lie.

I baited him up nicely. His rankings mean nothing.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[theGav56]

Nope what made you think that.

I personally think their will be some interesting players at 10, or whatever it ends up being.

My preference is for highly skilled players by foot. I’m ok with where our inside Mid scenario is at, and not confident any better inside Mids are in this draft either.

As I think it was you who once indicated best available is a term meaning different things to different recruiters depending on what they value in a player.

Having a high work ethic and desire to be the best you can, but also playing for your team mates, and club would be good attributes which are “soft” attributes not a measurable one.

Yeah all good. I don’t believe in any rigid best available rating, and soft attributes can make or break careers. I had been discussing Chapman specifically so assumed you were continuing that.

Chapman looks terrific, but unless there is some strategy to shuffle our defensive stocks, or unless they see his attributes transitioning into another position, I think we should look at other options.

 

[Walkingwounded]

I need to play nice since I’m a mod over there, but for those interested our friend Knightmare has admitted he doesn’t watch any non Victorian U18 football.

So Heath Chapman must be a hell of a player to still make his top 15. Lock him in for Fremantle then.

Interesting reading.. I guess being a WA resident suspected as much, also fits with why northern academies are always highly rated.

Cause he is a tight ar$e and only watches stuff that is free..

Makes the AFL Draft central a more rounded repository of information, as well as your good self Chris25

 

[theGav56]

The point I was trying to make, obviously not very well, was that if Chapman is best available at our pick then I have no problem selecting him. Despite what you say Hamling has a potentially career ending issue going on. I hope he gets on top of his issue but he has essentially been sitting around doing squat for months. He had a nasty staph infection and likely needs further surgery. The surgeon they want to see, he can’t get to being based in Melbourne. Knowing what the infections do to the bone means further surgery is even more complicated.

Hale was interviewed only a couple of weeks ago and ran through the long term injury players for next season and said the only one we won’t see for sometime is Hamling.

I agree we have more pressing needs but KPD cover isn’t too far down the list of requirements. Depending on what no. our first pick falls at there will likely be some other players we rate more highly.

IF the club believes our KPDs aren’t viable and that there are question marks over both Pearce and Hamling then I am fine with them drafting more. Would be mad not to, but my preference would still be for a player who could play another position if required such as the other Cox. But in the end we would still be facing a few years of Cox and Logue leading that area of the ground while any recruit develops.

 

[Docker82]

Not sure key defender will be anywhere near the top of our list of needs. I know we should apparently take best available every time with a first rounder but there’s limits.

When we took midfielders as best available over KPPs there was always room for extra mids in the best 22 in the near future. Picking the so called ‘best available’ has had mixed results at best for Freo. If there isn’t room to develop them they’re being set up to fail.

Hamling is 27 (okay a little old)
Pearce is 25 (five years plus left if fit)
Logue is 22 (ages left)
Cox is 22 (ages left and barely injured)

Whilst we could play three of these guys in the one side I think we’d play two of them (if the other two were injured) over another key defender. As much as players do spend years developing almost every decent player is best 25 within their first three seasons in the system. Many high draft picks have been ruined by lack of opportunity and rotting away not developing in the state leagues.

With a first rounder I’d rather draft a player who I believe would improve our best 22 in the next few years. If I’m doing that key defender is actually the last position I’m drafting.

Between small forwards, wingers and inside mids we can improve our team easily without straying too far from best available. Not against a key forward or forward/ruck either as we’ll need them in 2-3 years.

 

[Walkingwounded]

Sure, but lets not pretend the replacement was near the top of the list. It was said then and is pretty clear now that the off-field issues and the foot featured WAY above whatever they thought of McDonald and Weiderman.

I’m going to double down on this..

So I was referring to him
Not being best 22... a glad bag of things go into consideration of best 22... his form on the field, his form off the field and any injuries he is carrying and long term impact..

Let’s Change the name and use Harley Bennell, as a similar scenario. form on the field, form off the field and the injury..

All combined initially to put him not best 22, talent wise yes, delivery on Talent given injury and off field form.. MIA...then he started to get more stable, had a kid etc.. but injury curse never left and then Nek Minut Melbourne.

I really want to believe Hoges is our next player to kick 50 goals in a season.. if he plays 20 games next year he will be!

 

[blue shark]

IF the club believes our KPDs aren’t viable and that there are question marks over both Pearce and Hamling then I am fine with them drafting more. Would be mad not to, but my preference would still be for a player who could play another position if required such as the other Cox. But in the end we would still be facing a few years of Cox and Logue leading that area of the ground while any recruit develops.

Looking at Chapmans numbers he really is more than just a defender? His yo yo results, 2km time trial, and won the
colts award. That and disposals suggests he has more to offer.
David Mundy type that could play several positions?
Also I believe 2 additions that could excite next season are Sturt, Valente, both from that super draft.
The Vics this year are already underdone, WA, SA, Tas, etc, have more development.

 

[Taylor]

our friend Knightmare has admitted he doesn’t watch any non Victorian U18 football.

And nobody was surprised to hear it.

In Morgan Freeman voice