List Mgmt. 2021 Draft picks: 4/33/75

[Deaneus!]

thanks to Lore as always

AFL Draft Pick Value Calculator - Draftguru

 

[Mutineer]

Not disagreeing .....and I've seen every game Dawson has played

In 2020 he was used similarly to that chip scabbing Lloyd in DEF .....this year, his game did start to evolve with more contested ball, and his marking suddenly became a weapon, it hadn't in the previous years

I'd suggest SYD were also trying to add a more contested brand of footy to Dawsons game .....I mean he still hasn't played a lot of games up until the last 2 years .....so he's still developing, but we've got him at the right time

Well I'll be very disappointed if we don't use him exactly the same way the Swans did where he went from a virtual unknown into one of the AFL's buzz players after his breakout year.

I do not get this boatd's fascination in wanting to turn nearly every player into a midfielder when they're showing match winning traits in other roles.

 

[Murray2503]

I think everyone on here does

It’s a good thing though, Shuey is a great player and can break a game open (see 2018 GF). If Schoenberg gets to that level (I think he will) it’s a great building block to have

That said, you need more than just a Shuey type in your midfield to win finals. It’d be great to find our own version of Yeo

Schoenberg will be closer to Zach Merrett than Shuey imo. Cook will end up like Shuey but more tricks up forward.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I do not get this boatd's fascination in wanting to trn nearly every player into a midfielder when they're showing match winning traits in other roles.

The point is Dawson wasn't demonstrating game winning traits at SYD .....he was mostly played behind the ball, and this year was taking a lot of the kick-outs

So yes he played games up on the wing, not a full season though .....we need to use his weapons in more dangerous parts of the ground, and that's why we chased him

 

[Danger in Texas]

Schoenberg will be closer to Zach Merrett than Shuey imo. Cook will end up like Shuey but more tricks up forward.

I’m not sure I see Cook as a type that can both work in tight, and break away from a stoppage. He’ll end up more an outside player from what I’ve seen so far

 

[GreyCrow]

Players who run & carry ...kick long ...and kick goals as mids ..they win games, finals games !

Ironically I saw Roberts who gets that space and long delivery in some of Petraccas 3rd quarter

 

[Mego Red]

Olivers 187cm (88kg) .....Schoenberg 182cm (86kg) ..if you believe AFL website weights

You could be right re comparisons ....I compare Schoenberg to West Coasts Luke Shuey

Pedlar plays that real physical game ......Berry, looks ATS as a "B" grade version of Pedlar, not quite the class, but a workhorse in the Liberatore mould

With Hobbs, isn't he just more of what we already have ? .....does Erasmus, Goater give us a better POD? ...both look to have a lot of upside

I think Hobbs is the biggest certainty in this draft.

There are others that have a higher ceiling, but also have a lower floor.

Depends where we're at. Adding a Selwood or Wines type wouldn't be terrible, if we still think our midfield needs multiple pieces.

 

[Cap]

Not sure how many on here have watched Jordan Dawson play but if you're expecting him to come in and be a dominant midfielder you're going to be disappointed I think. Contested ball is not his strength, his abilities are best used outside of the contest just like the Swans have cottoned onto.
Jordan Dawson is tall at 192cm but he is definitely not big bodied, Nathan Fyfe is the same height and he's 10kg heavier, Christian Petracca is 6cm shorter and 10kg heavier, Lachie Neale is 15cm shorter and around the same weight.

I have no expectations, I only know of his abilities by highlights on the Swans YouTube.


Just asking questions of people who seem to know his capabilities better than me.

 

[Crow_68]

Problem is both Pedlar and Schoenberg are 182cm players ...and Oliver and Petracca 187cm and 186cm respectively ...that's a big weight/strength differential that was obvious last night

Don't think the Cripps big bodied mid works, as he lacks the legspeed .....Bont is a great example, where he can still break-away with his size

Oliver two years ago was 2:1 handball / kicks ....and was not damaging at all, despite getting the ball easily ....this year in particular, he's reversed the ratio and using speed and then kicking ....what a difference that's made to his game

Seems most of the junior mids handball too much or dink the ball 20-30 mtrs

Petracca is 97kgs, was 92kgs when drafted. That type of size and power is not available in this draft pool.

 

[dogs105]

Ironically I saw Roberts who gets that space and long delivery in some of Petraccas 3rd quarter

84 kgs and 184 cm already

 

[Crowman32]

Although I think he will probably be gone I'm hoping for Callaghan with our pick 4. If not I would be looking at josh sinn. I know a lot if people have pigeon holed him has an outside player but I think he can play both.

Both these players have a bit of bontempelli about them.

 

[Clayton Lamb]

What people haven't properly explained to you, is that CCJ is not a free agent ..he is out of contract meaning Richmond can't match any offers ..
for him to get to his prefered destination he needs Richmond to trade him or he can go to the preseason draft where we have pick 1 ..those rules you outlined were for restricted free agents

Yes, and :

“Richmond can just trade CCJ to another club” you said

maybe try again and see what you might have overlooked?

Apparently Sanders has an issue with the suggestion that Richmond can trade him despite evidence to the contrary presented several times.

 

[Del198236]

I have no expectations, I only know of his abilities by highlights on the Swans YouTube.


Just asking questions of people who seem to know his capabilities better than me.

Dawsons first two years, he had a few injuries. At the end of his second year Horse said to him 'to pull his finger out if he wants to become an AFL player'.
When he turned up to the following pre-season, He won the 2km time trial.
I got laughed at on this board for saying the game before his senior debut, He got 3 goals, 28 disposals and 25 tackles in the NEAFL.
Horse likes to develop some players behind the ball.. Zac Jones, Mills, Dawson, and in 2021, Blakey, Campbell, McInerney. Theres some pretty good names there (Jones excluded)
his strengths are half back - wing - half forward.. Kicking, endurance, marking, field position and reading the play (part of Horse' half back development plan). He never is rushed with his disposal, never caught holding the ball and makes the right decisions.

He's been tried inside and was pretty good in the NEAFL but not so good at AFL level.
You guys have got yourself a bloody good player!

 

[Mismatched]

Not disagreeing .....and I've seen every game Dawson has played

In 2020 he was used similarly to that chip scabbing Lloyd in DEF .....this year, his game did start to evolve with more contested ball, and his marking suddenly became a weapon, it hadn't in the previous years

I'd suggest SYD were also trying to add a more contested brand of footy to Dawsons game .....I mean he still hasn't played a lot of games up until the last 2 years .....so he's still developing, but we've got him at the right time

I think he’ll certainly play predominantly wing/half-back rotation, but Nicks has shown a penchant to try to rotate his wingers through the midfield and I expect Dawson will actually give him that predominantly outside player, who can go roll through the midfield. Cook hopefully similar, although more as a HFF/Wing, than Dawson who’d be more a HBF/Wing.

I think this is an area Sholl, especially with the imminent arrival of Dawson, will have to continue to work on if he doesn’t want to become the next Rory Atkins. Its rare in finals games these days that wingers are allowed to run around like unregistered dogs, racking up touches at will. Hamill’s a bit the same, although his issues not so much his attack on the footy, but that his body appears to be so fragile. I think Nicks will increasingly want his outside mids to be comfortable, and able to cope, with the hot contested stuff.

 

[Mismatched]

Dawsons first two years, he had a few injuries. At the end of his second year Horse said to him 'to pull his finger out if he wants to become an AFL player'.
When he turned up to the following pre-season, He won the 2km time trial.
I got laughed at on this board for saying the game before his senior debut, He got 3 goals, 28 disposals and 25 tackles in the NEAFL.
Horse likes to develop some players behind the ball.. Zac Jones, Mills, Dawson, and in 2021, Blakey, Campbell, McInerney. Theres some pretty good names there (Jones excluded)
his strengths are half back - wing - half forward.. Kicking, endurance, marking, field position and reading the play (part of Horse' half back development plan). He never is rushed with his disposal, never caught holding the ball and makes the right decisions.

He's been tried inside and was pretty good in the NEAFL but not so good at AFL level.
You guys have got yourself a bloody good player!

Thanks for the insight, there’s certainly a big step up from state league midfield to AFL midfield.

 

[Gtowncrow]

Looking at the GF last night, it reinforced the importance of speed & power thru the midfield

Look at the most influential players from both sides ......Petracca / Oliver & Bont / Treloar ....pace & power to break away from packs, either using legspeed or strength

Players like Macrae who dinked the ball around & played his usual game, was good .....but he was not your game winner

So who are our players that potentially meet the game winning criteria ? ......IMO Schoenberg & Pedlar

Players who run & carry ...kick long ...and kick goals as mids ..they win games, finals games !

This post made me really think about our onball setup...
Laird, Keays and mcrouch can win enough ball for themselves. I don't see that as a problem. However, Laird and Keays usually produce a hack kick forward to clear the stoppage. This is a problem as it simply moves an undecided ball thirty metres closer to goal, and little else.

The missing piece is a sweeping handball to a skilled disposer moving in the right direction to effect an attacking clearance to our advantage. If you can't get this right, take the tackle and reset for the next ball up. I'd like to see the receiver strong enough or agile enough to break through tackles where possible.

In this way, we don't release the ball out of a stoppage until it can be done with an advantage to us. This theory will dramatically reduce turnovers too.

For centre bounces, the same scenario still applies but not if the hack kick is needed. If so, it's better to take the tackle and setup with the outside receivers ready.

If we are fortunate enough to recruit or develop another Dangerfield, Martin or Petracca, the need for outside runners becomes less as these bulls are strong enough to burst through and largely avoid the hack kick. Until then however, more system in our clearances will make us a more dangerous team.

Please feel free to shoot this down but if you feel so inclined, I'd like to hear your view on how we improve our clearances.
Cheers

 

[Mutineer]

Twomey's Draft Team of the Year: Cannons mid firing into first-round frame

Check out draft guru Cal Twomey's updated Draft Team of the Year

www.afl.com.au

 

[WaynesWorld19]

This post made me really think about our onball setup...
Laird, Keays and mcrouch can win enough ball for themselves. I don't see that as a problem. However, Laird and Keays usually produce a hack kick forward to clear the stoppage. This is a problem as it simply moves an undecided ball thirty metres closer to goal, and little else.

Correct ....I simply love Laird, but he, Crouch and Keays are not goal kicking threats ....although Keays has been chipping in for the odd one

Of the 3 ....only Keays carries the ball

The missing piece is a sweeping handball to a skilled disposer moving in the right direction to effect an attacking clearance to our advantage. If you can't get this right, take the tackle and reset for the next ball up. I'd like to see the receiver strong enough or agile enough to break through tackles where possible.

This is the Bulldogs setup .....Libba / Dunkley in getting the contested possession and flicking out to Macrae / Bont

Macrae rarely handballs .....he's the sort of player Crouch should be, setting players up with a 20-30 mtr fwd kick to clear congestion
Unfortunately Crouch handballs in close, which rarely clears the congestion & puts teammates under pressure ......TBF to him, in 2020 after returning from being dropped, he started to kick more and go fwd, rather than crab .....but it's a WIP

For centre bounces, the same scenario still applies but not if the hack kick is needed. If so, it's better to take the tackle and setup with the outside receivers ready.

If we are fortunate enough to recruit or develop another Dangerfield, Martin or Petracca, the need for outside runners becomes less as these bulls are strong enough to burst through and largely avoid the hack kick. Until then however, more system in our clearances will make us a more dangerous team.

Please feel free to shoot this down but if you feel so inclined, I'd like to hear your view on how we improve our clearances.
Cheers

So true ....it's also good to have both options, which MELB have ....how often did the ball bobble out the back of the ruck contest, only to have Petracca / Oliver handball fwd to a Gawn or Mid streaming out the fwd of the contest

But quality strong mid beast with some speed are rare ......Sam Walsh as good as he is & I put him in the Macrae category of mid .....they're still more finesse players, Walsh showed this year, he can be closed down

Schoenberg showed this year, he has a bit of that aggression about his play ....will be interesting to see his development when Burgess's team get hold of him

 

[Mutineer]

Here ya go WaynesWorld19

 

[hey shorty]

Reckon we need to finish bottom 4 next year as well. We just don't have enough top picks in our midfield.

The good news though is we judged Luke Pedlar to effectively be the 5th best midfielder in that draft so hopefully he comes good. Still need more talent though

Harry, Pedlar and Pick 4 is a pretty good start.

Berry will be a very capable soldier, as will McHenry. Crouch and Laird will still be around for long enough to make a difference.

Dogs have more midfield depth than Melbourne yet got blown apart.

 

[Mismatched]

Harry, Pedlar and Pick 4 is a pretty good start.

Berry will be a very capable soldier, as will McHenry. Crouch and Laird will still be around for long enough to make a difference.

Dogs have more midfield depth than Melbourne yet got blown apart.

Depth only gets you so far, end of the day, there’s only 3 mids and a ruck each in the centre square. Its all well and good to have 7 A-Grade midfielders, but there’s only so many you can get around the ball at once. Its really important to ensure that you’re best 2-3 are absolute elites and its still the concern for us moving forward.

 

[Mutineer]

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Twomey's Draft Team of the Year: Cannons mid firing into first-round frame

Check out draft guru Cal Twomey's updated Draft Team of the Year

www.afl.com.au

Height
Contested Marking
Upside ....still learning how to play midfield
Strength ?
Speed ?

Watching him now in the academy v Geelong game .....but he's right up there to add variation & flexibility to our midfield

 

[MarcusP2]

Yes, and :



Apparently Sanders has an issue with the suggestion that Richmond can trade him despite evidence to the contrary presented several times.

They can try. He can tell them to GAGF.

On Pixel 5 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Scorpus]

Harry, Pedlar and Pick 4 is a pretty good start.

Berry will be a very capable soldier, as will McHenry. Crouch and Laird will still be around for long enough to make a difference.

Dogs have more midfield depth than Melbourne yet got blown apart.

We have lots of maybes but don't have a confirmed star yet. Need to keep hitting the draft until we do

 

[hey shorty]

We have lots of maybes but don't have a confirmed star yet. Need to keep hitting the draft until we do

I mean it took a while for Oliver and Petracca to come good too.

Hopefully this year we start to see some of our boys push along