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List Mgmt. 2021 draft pool.

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Bird Man said:
Does the combine change much in draft rankings or how clubs view players.

Or is it just to confirm small questions over players that a club might have ?
Click to expand...

In my personal rankings? No.

For clubs? Barely any but perhaps to a limited extent.

I'm personallly more interested in what players do on the field.

Guys can test through the roof yet not apply it in game.

Joel Wilkinson is a prime example where he holds the record for the fastest 20m sprint recorded at the combine. How did he look in game? He had no capacity to take on the game with his run. Despite playing in defence, he was unable to show any run and dare. And it's not like he was just some freak fast twitch athlete, he also for endurance testing killed it. So it's important to be cautious with how much weight you put into it, and use it to help give you additional context to what you're seeing on the field.

The value of the combine from a testing respect is it gives context. And for AFL clubs, if I was possession of all the historical testing data. From heights/weights/how they performed in athletic testing before. I'd be looking at that more than anything as a way to track their rate of improvement and help with evaluating their possible upside. So if they've grown 10cm over the last 12 months and they're vastly improved across the athletic testing categories, they're great indicators that the prospect probably has a good deal of upside v someone else who is the same height as 24 months ago and their testing looks exactly the same.
 
Knightmare said:
In my personal rankings? No.

For clubs? Barely any but perhaps to a limited extent.

I'm personallly more interested in what players do on the field.

Guys can test through the roof yet not apply it in game.

Joel Wilkinson is a prime example where he holds the record for the fastest 20m sprint recorded at the combine. How did he look in game? He had no capacity to take on the game with his run. Despite playing in defence, he was unable to show any run and dare. And it's not like he was just some freak fast twitch athlete, he also for endurance testing killed it. So it's important to be cautious with how much weight you put into it, and use it to help give you additional context to what you're seeing on the field.

The value of the combine from a testing respect is it gives context. And for AFL clubs, if I was possession of all the historical testing data. From heights/weights/how they performed in athletic testing before. I'd be looking at that more than anything as a way to track their rate of improvement and help with evaluating their possible upside. So if they've grown 10cm over the last 12 months and they're vastly improved across the athletic testing categories, they're great indicators that the prospect probably has a good deal of upside v someone else who is the same height as 24 months ago and their testing looks exactly the same.
Click to expand...
right fair enough!

Good stuff, keep up the good work and hopfully you and some of the other AFL youtubers could combine at times and build that community. Australian sport needs more indipenat voices then a bunch of old ex players that do what ever the AFL narrative says.
 
Bird Man said:
right fair enough!

Good stuff, keep up the good work and hopfully you and some of the other AFL youtubers could combine at times and build that community. Australian sport needs more indipenat voices then a bunch of old ex players that do what ever the AFL narrative says.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. It's great having places like YouTube and Bigfooty for anyone to make a name for themselves and out-do the newspapers and those who are on tv.

It's often the little guys producing the best content. In general with a lot of the larger AFL publications, my pet peeve is all the noise about the non-football issues and too little analysis. I don't see that as conducive to growing the AFL. So I've more and more over time become almost purely a game watcher and blocked out at least with a lot of the larger publications whatever they're producing, with my focus being on what I do. And like you, a lot of the old footy voices you hear on tv, in commentary, I'm at a point where I have games muted and just watch and if watching with others make my own comments/observations about what I'm seeing.

One of the pleasures I have had, and I could go through others I've engaged with and been impressed by, but working with Selby for his Moreira's Magic Season Guide (AFL Fantasy) last offseason. That was a great experience picking his brain and seeing how he sees the game and how granular his focus is on fantasy football. There are those kinds of great minds out there who aren't necessarily on the largest platforms, create their own opportunities, but are in terms of those things they cover can be the absolute experts at what they do as Selby is for AFL Fantasy.

There are the few odd really good names on the larger media platforms, Marc McGowan I've always enjoyed the analysis of. But the common trend is it's those who weren't former AFL footballers who so often curiously have the best analytical minds. It's something I'd like to see a lot more of and feel there is a great deal of space for.

I see if anything the more good content being out there, likely the more engagement and the more people likely to check out other content along those lines. So if on YouTube there was to be another AFL draft channel exploding in the future, I'd welcome it as I think that would only expand my channel, as it creates more interest in that space. And it's the same with if other media publications do more to cover the draft, I feel like that's only going to have more people searching it up and finding my pieces on ESPN.
 
richoatthedisco said:
The Metro-Country game Daicos, Ward and Goater were the best three mids on the ground. As above, my concern with Hobbs is he's too similar to Ross and Martyn. The best contested mids like Dusty, Cotch, Dion, Oliver, Petracca, even Wines, have explosiveness from the contest. They don't just shovel it out, they go in and get it and emerge the other side having created time and space. I haven't seen that with Hobbs.
Click to expand...
Goater was good but Knevitt was better in the Metro v Country game.
 

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How many times has it been shown that a good footy brain over comes a high level athlete with a low footy IQ. Id say 9/10 times the footy brain over comes low athleticism.

Ward and Hobbs may not be explosive level athletes. But if their endurance is at a high level then they’ve proven they now how to find the pill and are effective at stoppages.

my only concern with Hobbs is how different is he from Jack Graham? He seems like a less attacking version of Graham. Also Ward sounds like a bit of a Kane Lambert/Andrew McGrath Hybrid… which is a very very good player.

If I’m choosing between the two I’m leaning towards Ward at the moment due to attributes and the teams needs in terms of types of mids that we already have.

If Callaghan lives up the hype then his type is exactly something our midfield could use.

Watching Cotchin, Graham, Prestia and Bolton being over powered and out sized consistently at stoppages has got very tiring. A 190cm evasive mid like Callahan, Johnson(WA), Erasmus who are all around the 190cm and are midfield types would be a nice addition.

At the moment my preference list for pick 7 would be:
Callaghan
Ward
Erasmus
Hobbs
 
Stevi_Tigers said:
More an athlete than a footballer are the negatives and no real fixed position apparently are the negatives

Knightmare on his positives

9. Josh Goater
Best position: Utility
Height, weight:190cm, 79kg
Recruited from: Calder Cannons
Projected draft range: 5-25
Plays like: Elliot Yeo
June ranking: Outside-20
Rationale: Goater has gotten better as the year has progressed and his performance in the Vic Metro vs. Vic Country trial made clear he's among the upper echelon of prospects this year. His versatility and capability to impact games across multiple different positions sets him apart from his peers.
Strengths:
Versatility to impact games through the midfield, in defence and up forward
Contested ball winning
Distribution by hand
Composure in traffic
Reading of the ball in flight
Overhead marking
Intercept marking
Leap
Burst of speed out of stoppages
Acceleration
Agility
Evasion
Work rate
Click to expand...
I like yeo. Some nice traits here. Nice height but at this point he is 10 kgs lighter than Yeo. But it will become a couple of years until he gains that weight.
 
You always look at what natural traits a player has and if Callaghan is naturally more outside, he will struggle
To ever be an elite inside player, just my opinion. I’ve noticed over the years there is no substitute for players that are able
To crack in hard and hit the fall of the ball at full speed naturally. Very very hard to teach that, you either have that instinct or you don’t.
 
juss said:
I’d rather our inside bull be a bit more stature than 183/80. You look at Clayton Oliver at 187/88 or Steele at 187/91 and Hobbs is well undersized.
Click to expand...
Been thinking more about this "taller is better" line of thinking. Whilst being taller isn't a disadvantage, for inside extractors it's probably more critical to be strongly built. The main advantage of extra height is probably going to come in the air. I.e. Fyfe, Bont, Cripps at 190+ are more dangerous marking targets when they push forward. But if you look at someone like Prestia, he's our best clearance player despite being sub-180cm.

Hobbs is pretty much exactly the same size as Horne-Francis and Daicos, but a little more solid than both. And at that mid 180cm size I don't think it's a major issue if he's the best inside clearance player in the draft pool. I'm far more concerned about his lack of burst speed and athleticism, but beyond that, he definitely sounds like the type we'd value and can understand why we'd be looking at him with our first selection.

Sent from my CPH1951 using Tapatalk
 
Rioli2Rioli said:
I really like NWM kicking , This kid has that class and agility
there is a bit of Shai about him
Click to expand...
Yes I really like his highlights, so wouldn’t surprise me if he’s one of the best kicks. Some of the kicking in those highlights were amazing. His awareness and decision-making was probably one of the better ones just judging from the highlights that I have seen
 
Damo80 said:
Been thinking more about this "taller is better" line of thinking. Whilst being taller isn't a disadvantage, for inside extractors it's probably more critical to be strongly built. The main advantage of extra height is probably going to come in the air. I.e. Fyfe, Bont, Cripps at 190+ are more dangerous marking targets when they push forward. But if you look at someone like Prestia, he's our best clearance player despite being sub-180cm.

Hobbs is pretty much exactly the same size as Horne-Francis and Daicos, but a little more solid than both. And at that mid 180cm size I don't think it's a major issue if he's the best inside clearance player in the draft pool. I'm far more concerned about his lack of burst speed and athleticism, but beyond that, he definitely sounds like the type we'd value and can understand why we'd be looking at him with our first selection.

Sent from my CPH1951 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Again, no problems (I'd be very happy) with Hobbs at 7. I just don't think he is worth trading up to 3 or 4 for.

Given every year there is sliders, I'd be almost certain someone has a higher than expected draft selection and one of Erasmus, Ward, Hobbs, Callaghan, Gibcus, is available at pick 7. If that was the case I think we'd be happy with any, especially the midfielders.

I really think this is the dart board draft year given so little junior footy.
I'd rather have 5 picks inside the top 25-30 rather than selling up for pick 3 and having only 2 or 3 picks inside 25-30.

We have an opportunity to really nail a draft and get our next core group of 200 game guns.
 

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Lsta062 said:
Who do you think is the best kick outside of those projected to go in the top 4?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't have any of the top-4 in the best kick conversation.

Josh Rachele is probably my pick but Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera is the other incredible kick of those top end names we should hear called out in the first round.
 
bc27 said:
How many times has it been shown that a good footy brain over comes a high level athlete with a low footy IQ. Id say 9/10 times the footy brain over comes low athleticism.

Ward and Hobbs may not be explosive level athletes. But if their endurance is at a high level then they’ve proven they now how to find the pill and are effective at stoppages.

my only concern with Hobbs is how different is he from Jack Graham? He seems like a less attacking version of Graham. Also Ward sounds like a bit of a Kane Lambert/Andrew McGrath Hybrid… which is a very very good player.

If I’m choosing between the two I’m leaning towards Ward at the moment due to attributes and the teams needs in terms of types of mids that we already have.

If Callaghan lives up the hype then his type is exactly something our midfield could use.

Watching Cotchin, Graham, Prestia and Bolton being over powered and out sized consistently at stoppages has got very tiring. A 190cm evasive mid like Callahan, Johnson(WA), Erasmus who are all around the 190cm and are midfield types would be a nice addition.

At the moment my preference list for pick 7 would be:
Callaghan
Ward
Erasmus
Hobbs
Click to expand...
I think everyone is on the same page with those 4. But until we trade up it isn’t likely we’ll get Callahan who’s the consensus number 4 behind JHF, Daicos and Darcy or Ward who’s the next best mid in the draft with the Hawks/Crows likely then there is Erasmus who will end up at Freo being a pick in front of us after the Cerra trade. Hobbs is the likely slider if we hold our pick 7 (9). If we trade up I hope we get Callahan he could be a generational talent and another left footer that normally means they’re an elite kick something that suits us! If we could get Callahan at 3 then Goater at 17 we’d be in a great position. I just think right now as it stands it’ll be Hobbs and the media is running with that now. Will be interesting if we move up though cause it brings those other names into contention which is really exciting
 
GoTigers2015 said:
IMO should keep 7 & 15 unless we upgrade pick 7 for 2/3/4 and by giving up pick 26/28 & possibly pick 47

Pick 3 Callghan/Ward/Erasmus
Pick 7 One of Hobbs/Ward/Erasmus should be available
pick 15 should get a good player, whoever is left out of
Andrew/NWM/Sinn/Goater/Sonsie/Amiss/Racele
Click to expand...
Who the hells giving us 2/3/4 for 26 and 28.
 
Knightmare said:
I wouldn't have any of the top-4 in the best kick conversation.

Josh Rachele is probably my pick but Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera is the other incredible kick of those top end names we should hear called out in the first round.
Click to expand...
Hearing the crows might use there first pick on josh rachelle. If true a chance another player will slide to our pick.
 

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Rioli2Rioli said:
I really like NWM kicking , This kid has that class and agility
there is a bit of Shai about him
Click to expand...
Rachele is also an excellent kick.

We should really be into him. Toby Greene matchwinner type who runs through the midfield. Heaps of XFactor and could end up being a star player from this draft. At 180cm he's the same size as Hobbs. He wouldn't be a reach at 7 (9) and there are bulk genuine mid types from 10-20 for our 2nd/3rd picks.
 
Last edited:
Knightmare said:
He's not quick. Below average speed/agility is how he plays. He's something like this year's Matt Crouch equivalent, or perhaps on projected quality, more like a Luke Dunstan. He can rack it up, win the footy. Good tackler. He's a competitive sort who will have a crack. But not quick, athletic or a particularly good kick. So you wouldn't be sticking him into a slow midfield with a bunch of the same - eg. he'd look silly in a Giants uniform. But on a team needing what he brings to the table, he can be a list fit. I just feel like, and this is reflected by my relatively low rating of him that there are a lot of similar types around who can be had, and had cheaply. So I wouldn't be paying an early pick to get him, likely as he is to have an immediate impact.



On Goater, the elements concern are inconsistent kicking, but he's also someone where he needs to develop more as a mid and become a higher level of ball winner through there. Weirdly he found more of the footy in defence than he did as a mid which is one of the more unusual things.
Click to expand...
Thanks for replying mate.
 
I've just watched highlights for Ward, Callaghan and Hobbs on YouTube. Which loosely translates to me now being at least worthy of 5 minutes of Draft Analysis on Trade Radio, and fully entitled to emotionally charged statements regarding Richmond's pick.

If we don't take Callaghan at 7 I'm going to pull up the bathroom tiles and eat the asbestos lined backing.
 
brahj said:
I've just watched highlights for Ward, Callaghan and Hobbs on YouTube. Which loosely translates to me now being at least worthy of 5 minutes of Draft Analysis on Trade Radio, and fully entitled to emotionally charged statements regarding Richmond's pick.

If we don't take Callaghan at 7 I'm going to pull up the bathroom tiles and eat the asbestos lined backing.
Click to expand...
Talk about playing it safe ................. Grow some balls and give us something to look foward to
 
guido66 said:
Hearing the crows might use there first pick on josh rachelle. If true a chance another player will slide to our pick.
Click to expand...

It's a lot to spend for Rachele. They do need a boost forward of centre and their midfield is a lot of the same, so he at least can add some variety if he's the choice.

This is what I'm talking about with the draft opening up. You could have someone take Rachele with the 4th live pick, and you could have someone else not have him in their top-10. There will be a bit of that this year.
 
Rioli2Rioli said:
Talk about playing it safe ................. Grow some balls and give us something to look foward to
Click to expand...

I'll buy a premium membership for Mr Magic so he doesn't have to wait 30 seconds between posts. Look what you've done.
 

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List Mgmt. 2021 draft pool.

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