2021 Formula One Season: Championship Decider Abu Dhabi - Verstappen Wins in a Controversial Race! 🏆 🍾

[BigTacoBandit]

It's not ambiguous. All lapped cars must overtake the lead lap cars and safety car, and then once that happens the safety car is in at the end of the next lap. Both of those rules were broken by the race's own director and presumably one who should know each rule to the letter.

The result will not be overturned - and imo it shouldn't be. Red Bull did nothing wrong, and in any event it would be way too controversial to have it sorted in a court room. However, heads need to roll, and it should be Michael Masi's. It was a farce.

You've just proved that it is ambiguous.

It doesn't say "all" lapped cars - it says "any" lapped cars. Does "any" mean "all? If they meant "all" then they should have used it but they didn't. That's where the ambiguity is.
The use of "any" appears to give discretion about which cars can be directed to unlap.

 

[StrappingTape]

Mere technical distinction as there were no laps completed under green flag conditions and the safety car was out from beginning to end.

In any event, there is nothing in the rules forbidding a safety car finish.

No there's not but there was also no reason for a safety car finish. The only reason Mercedes wanted it was because they knew they had ****ed their tyre strategy and were sitting ducks.

 

[Rustin Cohle]

Strong seeing your year 11 English teacher out at the club vibes here

 

[FR0GGY]

huh, not allowed to refuel so that doesn't work?

Yep explained in subsequent post, was forgetting they don’t refuel anymoee

 

[Sixpence]

You've just proved that it is ambiguous.

It doesn't say "all" lapped cars - it says "any" lapped cars. Does "any" mean "all? If they meant "all" then they should have used it but they didn't. That's where the ambiguity is.
The use of "any" appears to give discretion about which cars can be directed to unlap.

To suggest that only certain cars can go through is an extremely poor interpretation (by Masi, not you). Even Ric was wondering why the * he was stuck behind the leaders unable to unlap himself.

 

[99 Problems]

It’s sad that after everything that happened this season between two great drivers and teams it felt like the ending was something scripted for a documentary rather than a sporting contest. It’s no fault of Max or Red Bull’s though and once the initial protest was dismissed that should be the end of it. He’s a deserving world champion.

I can’t criticise Mercedes for not pitting Lewis on either occasion. No team in history was risking giving up track position given the circumstances. It was an outstanding drive overall from Hamilton. He did his job. The safety car was the unpredictability we all love in sport when it looked like the race was all over, it’s just a shame that last lap felt so manufactured.

 

[Acinath]

Haven’t watched it yet.
Only have one question.

What would Charlie have done?

Bigger loss than we imagined, he was supreme

 

[lionbear]

I can’t criticise Mercedes for not pitting Lewis on either occasion. No team in history was risking giving up track position given the circumstances. It was an outstanding drive overall from Hamilton. He did his job. The safety car was the unpredictability we all love in sport when it looked like the race was all over, it’s just a shame that last lap felt so manufactured.

I thought they should have pitted under the virtual safety car, Max went in and the slowed conditions was still running at the end of the next lap, Even if he was a little behind Max his pace was such he would have got him quickly anyway, would those tyres have been enough to defend on the last lap? Who knows.

The Actual safety car, no he couldn't have come in, would have given up track position either way.

 

[ptrg]

It very easily could have been Verstappen in Lewis' spot too, had Mercedes opted to pit him.

And everyone seems to be forgetting Lewis could have also easily pitted for fresh tyres like Max did 8(?) laps earlier under VSC.
Again Merc played it conservative and opted against it.
They had their chanceS

 

[ptrg]

And I would be annoyed at that too. Loke I've said before dislike both those two teams, team bosses and drivers equally.

It was a bad call. If they wanted to have a final showdown red flag it. Lewis can change his tyres as well. He's been allowed under red flags before. Have a 5 lap shoot out on equal tyres.

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Why? If there was 1 extra lap remaining, all this would have happened and we'd still have a 1 (or 2) lap race with less controversy.
Either way, Hamilton still wasn't getting fresh tyres after twice turning down VSC/SC opportunities.
That's squarely on Mercedes

 

[Sixpence]

And everyone seems to be forgetting Lewis could have also easily pitted for fresh tyres like Max did 8(?) laps earlier under VSC.
Again Merc played it conservative and opted against it.
They had their chanceS

He wouldn't have had time. Hamilton could really only have pitted the lap after Max. The VSC ended before he could have made it in and out. Max would have overtaken him.

 

[skam85]

Mere technical distinction as there were no laps completed under green flag conditions and the safety car was out from beginning to end.

In any event, there is nothing in the rules forbidding a safety car finish.

Nine times in history shows they try and avoid it at almost every opportunity.

 

[ptrg]

He wouldn't have had time. Hamilton could really only have pitted the lap after Max. The VSC ended before he could have made it in and out. Max would have overtaken him.

Hamilton drive past the pit entrance while under VSC, Max entered them.

Even in your scenario, that's effectively an undercut- it happens.

It would have protected them from a sprint finish, any safety car bunch up, especially given they were ridiculously faster than RB on equal tires.

They chose not to give up track position. I agree the SC one they had no other option (that's racing and the crazy permutations it throws up to the leader), but they had full choice with the VSC, and still plenty of time to catch Max who then would have been on very old tires (or otherwise who would have pitted behind them).

Merc screwed Merc

 

[BigTacoBandit]

To suggest that only certain cars can go through is an extremely poor interpretation (by Masi, not you). Even Ric was wondering why the fu** he was stuck behind the leaders unable to unlap himself.

Agree that's its a broad interpretation but just pointing out that the Regs are actually quite ambiguous. And that seems to be what Masi relied on.

It seems the "just let them race" ethos is what underpinned it.

 

[hey shorty]

Not really fair on Sainz and the other drivers still racing for position, though, that still had their own lapped cars to deal with and were still fighting for points.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with finishing under a safety car - it has happened loads of times before. It has even happened this year.

There is a lot wrong with finishing under a safety car.

Both in this instance and all the others

 

[99 Problems]

I thought they should have pitted under the virtual safety car, Max went in and the slowed conditions was still running at the end of the next lap, Even if he was a little behind Max his pace was such he would have got him quickly anyway, would those tyres have been enough to defend on the last lap? Who knows.

The Actual safety car, no he couldn't have come in, would have given up track position either way.

There’s no way they were giving up track position at any stage. Trying to pass Max knowing he only had to make sure he stayed in front or neither finished is a risk no team would take.

Even on turn one, it was amazing driving by Max that he ended up making that corner, but he absolutely threw it in there with the knowledge Lewis either yields or he’s the world champion. Max is super aggressive at the best of times, world title on the line no one is getting past him.

 

[Coasters7]

You've just proved that it is ambiguous.

It doesn't say "all" lapped cars - it says "any" lapped cars. Does "any" mean "all? If they meant "all" then they should have used it but they didn't. That's where the ambiguity is.
The use of "any" appears to give discretion about which cars can be directed to unlap.

Straight out of the AFL play book that one. Use as vague wording as possible so everything is open to interpretation and mistakes can easily be explained away.

 

[lionbear]

There’s no way they were giving up track position at any stage. Trying to pass Max knowing he only had to make sure he stayed in front or neither finished is a risk no team would take.

But under the virtual safety car he would have held his lead.

 

[Neale4brownlow]

He wouldn't have had time. Hamilton could really only have pitted the lap after Max. The VSC ended before he could have made it in and out. Max would have overtaken him.

No reason he couldn't have pit first. He may have lost track position, but would've almost certainly regained it.
I can understand their decision though. It's an impossible call (to go into the pits) in the moment. All in hindsight now.

I think there was still time the lap after though. Even if Verstappen got a little bit of top speed at the tail end of it.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

F1 too introduce 50 single lap shootouts per meetings next year.

 

[Acinath]

Toto taking the loss well at least

 

[Black_White]

I dunno about all this.
But if Merc are successful with a challenge I want CFC to challenge the 2018 GF result.
There was a clear sheppard when the ball was outside 5 metres before the mark that lead to the winning goal.
Challenge it Ed, challenge it!
Oh, wait…..

 

[Forward Press]

You've just proved that it is ambiguous.

It doesn't say "all" lapped cars - it says "any" lapped cars. Does "any" mean "all? If they meant "all" then they should have used it but they didn't. That's where the ambiguity is.
The use of "any" appears to give discretion about which cars can be directed to unlap.

Here is the full regulation.

"If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE" has been sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system, any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car...

In this case, 'any' does mean 'all'. There were still cars that were lapped by the leaders that did not pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car and they were required to do so if the 'LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE' message was displayed. If I say 'any person sitting behind me must go ahead of me' - that means everyone, not just some people.

I do not understand how on earth that can be interpreted any other way. Are we serious? Verstappen won fair and square - let me repeat that for the twelfth time - but that is a rule that was clearly broken by the race director.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Here is the full regulation.



In this case, 'any' does mean 'all'. There were still cars that were lapped by the leaders that did not pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car and they were required to do so if the 'LAPPED CARS MAY NOT OVERTAKE' message was displayed.

I do not understand how on earth that can be interpreted any other way. Are we serious?

No, it doesn't.

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[juice t]

Bigger loss than we imagined, he was supreme

Charlie Whiting also indirectly caused Jules Bianchi's death by not sending the Safety Car out at Suzuka when a goddamn tractor was in the gravel trap moving Sutil's Sauber