List Mgmt. 2021 List Management: Academy, Contracts, Trading & Draft

Giant Strides · Sep 30, 2021

Some more trade and draft resources. Courtesy of Lore.

Key Off-Season Dates
This is a comprehensive list including dates for draft combines, list lodgements, delisted free agency windows and return to train dates. I had to collate these from three different club websites because the AFL is lazy af and doesn't have it on their website, so thought it might be helpful to share:

AFL TRADE, DRAFT AND FREE AGENCY DATES 2021

AFL TRADE, DRAFT AND FREE AGENCY DATES 2021

Grand Final
Saturday September 25

Draft Combine – Vic Country
Friday October 1

Restricted and Unrestricted Free Agency Window
Friday October 1 – Friday October 8

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
Wednesday October 3 - Friday October 15

Trade Period (picks and players)
Monday October 4 (9am) – Wednesday October 13 (7.30pm)

Draft Combines (States and Regions)
VM: Saturday October 9 (tbc)
Qld: Sunday October 10
Tas: Monday October 11
SA: Saturday October 16
WA: Sunday October 17
NSW & ACT: tbc
NT: will join SA or Qld

Trade Period (picks only)
Monday October 18 – Monday November 15

List Lodgement 1
Friday October 29

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
Wednesday November 3 – Tuesday November 9

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
Wednesday November 10

Delisted Free Agency Window 3
Thursday November 11 – Monday November 15

AFL Pre-Season Commences (First to fourth year players)
Monday November 22

National Draft
Round 1: Wednesday November 24 (7pm)
Round 2–end: Thursday November 25 (7pm)

Preseason and Rookie Drafts
Friday November 26 (3.20pm)

Final List Lodgement
Monday November 29

Pre-Season Commences (All other players)
Monday December 6

Pre-Season Supplemental Selection Period (SSP)
December - March (tbc)

Pre-Season Christmas Break
Sunday December 19 - Sunday January 9

Draft Order & Future Pick Tracker

FAQs & Resources Thread

It has an index at the top with threadmarks so it's easy to find what you're looking for – or easier than scrolling through 250 pages of AFL Rules, Regulations and CBA pdfs anyway.

These sorts of questions are all answered along with a bunch of other resources made by posters from across BigFooty (feel free to add to it!):

Resource - FAQs: Rules, Regulations and Resources for Player Movements in the AFL

List sizes Club age and height profiles Salary cap information Trading rules including salary dumps Father/son & academy draft bids Free agency compensation formula & more

www.bigfooty.com

GWS List Summary

Senior List

33: 36 less delisted Shipley & Hutchesson, delisted Wehr (to be reselected in rookie draft), traded Finlayson, plus DFA signing of Brander. 3 to 5 spots available at ND.

1 Phil Davis - 2022
2 Jacob Hopper - 2023
3 Stephen Coniglio - 2026
4 Toby Greene - 2026
5 Tanner Bruhn - 2022
6 Lachie Whitfield - 2027
7 Lachlan Ash - 2023
8 Callan Ward - 2022
9 Ryan Angwin - 2022
10 Jacob Wehr - 2022 [delisted with an agreement to select in the rookie draft]
11 Brayden Preuss - 2023
12 Tom Green - 2023
13 Isaac Cumming - 2022
14 Tim Taranto - 2022
15 Sam Taylor - 2025
16 Brent Daniels - 2025
18 Conor Stone - 2024
19 Nick Haynes - 2024
22 Josh Kelly - 2029
23 Jesse Hogan - 2022
24 Matthew De Boer - 2022
25 Lachlan Keeffe - 2022
26 Jake Riccardi - 2023
27 Harry Himmelberg - 2023
29 Cam Fleeton - 2022
30 Matt Flynn - 2023
32 Kieran Briggs - 2022
33 Xavier O'Halloran - 2022
36 Harry Perryman - 2022
37 Ian Hill - 2022
39 Connor Idun - 2022
40 Adam Kennedy - 2022
44 Jack Buckley - 2022

+ Jarrod Brander - 2022 (selected in first DFA window)

Rookie List - A

4: 7 less delisted Reid & Buntine, retired Shane Mumford. 0 to 2 spots available for rookie draft.

28 Zach Sproule - 2022
38 Daniel Lloyd - 2022
42 Jake Stein - 2022
45 James Peatling - 2022

Rookie List - B

2: full

35 Will Shaw - 2022
46 Callum M Brown - 2022 (Irish international rookie, extended 1 year under COVID rules)

Chairman Zia · Jul 27, 2021

General Giant said:
[emoji1787][emoji1787] you dunce. Every class player who has been offered massive dollars has turned you lot down.

If Josh goes there it’ll be one thing and one thing only. You have offered another godfather offer bigger than anywhere else.

To be brutally honest that is.

brutally honest eyy, like the 89 reasons you had back in 2019, how did your team of superstars go then,,.

Chairman Zia · Jul 27, 2021

GWS Goose said:
You're predictions are neither reality or truth. They are simply your best guess of what is going to happen.
A injury riddled season, been away from home for 6 weeks, still in the 8, is hardly a sign of mentally disintegrated.
We've rebuilt on the run bought in the next generation whilst our top tier still has a long time left in the game.
I m.very hopeful over the 8 years of Josh's option we will compete for a flag, they are hard to win, but we'll there abouts over that period.

you got brutalized to the tune of nearly 100, there’s no recovering from. Eng never recovered from the 89 ashes belting until they got a completely new team by 2005.

your current team would never reached the top because your core players have already accepted distant 2 as the closest you will ever get to a flag. Mental scarring happens when you repeatedly fail at the most critical juncture. You had your moment in 16, 17 and 19, missed. Finished.

you want another tilt at the flag, wait until congnilio, Whitfield, Kelly, Taranto, hopper are all gone, start fresh and with a bit of luck, it might happen.

GWS Goose · Jul 28, 2021

Chairman Zia said:
brutally honest eyy, like the 89 reasons you had back in 2019, how did your team of superstars go then,,.

16 other teams would have loved to be there.
Worth noting on that day we had missing from our best side Ward (than captain), Cogs (now captain), Delido, Patton and Whitfield and Davis played injured.
All those guys missed the prelim, plus Toby Greene.
That is a lot of salary cap out and still managing to win a prelim is pretty impressive.

GWS Goose · Jul 28, 2021

Chairman Zia said:
you got brutalized to the tune of nearly 100, there’s no recovering from. Eng never recovered from the 89 ashes belting until they got a completely new team by 2005.

your current team would never reached the top because your core players have already accepted distant 2 as the closest you will ever get to a flag. Mental scarring happens when you repeatedly fail at the most critical juncture. You had your moment in 16, 17 and 19, missed. Finished.

you want another tilt at the flag, wait until congnilio, Whitfield, Kelly, Taranto, hopper are all gone, start fresh and with a bit of luck, it might happen.

Richmond lost 3 elimination finals in a row and lost by 100 to us and Sydney and won 3 of the next 4.
The old lose one to win one is even an old saying, there is a million examples of teams

Mental scarring is a myth. They've already beaten Richmond twice since the Grand Final and nearly a third time. (Which is wear the scars would be)
After the 89 ashes almost every one of the stars was gone and they were playing against the greatest side in cricket history. Odd choice of example.

Danny88 · Jul 28, 2021

I’m not sure why we are entertaining this muppet

I’m sure it was the famous “shinboner spirit” that attracted so much talent and stardom in the last decade…. Oh wait…. They are the laughing stock of the league as they constantly miss out year after year.
The wins on talent in hall and Stephenson were both pushed from their last clubs and grabbed the chance to play afl anywhere…. Literally it was their last option before leaving the league

it’s exactly how NOT to run a club and their recent consistent failure is clearly “mental scarring” and a spiritless club etc etc

what rubbish

Colonial · Jul 28, 2021

Chairman Zia said:
brutally honest eyy, like the 89 reasons you had back in 2019, how did your team of superstars go then,,.

Made a Gf and fell apart.

89 reasons? I’d say that’s only 1.

Big Stinky Monk · Jul 28, 2021

Chairman Zia said:
Are you sure he signed out of loyalty or chance at a flag tilt? You did mention that he like to think over everything.

Don't think flag tilt is going to happen anytime soon.

Then there's the cap issue, although not something he has to be conerned with but something the club most certain has to think over.

It would be a tragedy if kelly stayed and players like taranto and hopper get squeezed out. Green is also in for a massive pay hike as he might be the next captain. Collingwood lost 4 decent to superstar players for a de goey....

Kelly should absolutely consider North. Their track record of recruiting emerging stars like Bonar, Polec, Ahern, Corr, etc and developing them into bona fide a-listers would be hard to turn down

They are bigger talent butchers than Carlton!!

PMBangers · Jul 28, 2021

Caruso on Road to the Draft discussing a lot of what we've discussed here, with more in-depth and insightful insight, some key points;
- Zach Reid (Essendon) was high on our 2020 board (not surprising)
- Mentions Horne, Callaghan, Erasmus, Gibcus, Andrew, Hobbs and Rachele as the group behind Daicos and Darcy
- Young KPD is a list need atm, will draft best available early though
- Also mentioned our recruiting team doesn't do a 'rankings' per say, will come up with a pool at the end of the year of players that 'fit' the club and rank that pool
- Said focus of drafting is always for the best player long term, used Ben Hobbs and Josh Gibcus who are two GWV Rebels guys as an example, saying that while one is better and more ready to impact now, it may not be our selection (promising that Gibcus is used in this example)

Orange crush · Jul 28, 2021

Yeah ..., Gibcus seems high on Caruso’s list

Giant Strides · Jul 28, 2021

PMBangers said:
Caruso on Road to the Draft discussing a lot of what we've discussed here, with more in-depth and insightful insight, some key points;
- Zach Reid (Essendon) was high on our 2020 board (not surprising)
- Mentions Horne, Callaghan, Erasmus, Gibcus, Andrew, Hobbs and Rachele as the group behind Daicos and Darcy
- Young KPD is a list need atm, will draft best available early though
- Also mentioned our recruiting team doesn't do a 'rankings' per say, will come up with a pool at the end of the year of players that 'fit' the club and rank that pool
- Said focus of drafting is always for the best player long term, used Ben Hobbs and Josh Gibcus who are two GWV Rebels guys as an example, saying that while one is better and more ready to impact now, it may not be our selection (promising that Gibcus is used in this example)

Interesting that Twomey has Goater way down at 22, and Rachele at 7; while most other draft watchers have Goater rising and Rachele dropping. What are your thoughts?

I've liked the look of Rachele since his U16s; Vic Country / Murray region so would have some NSW teammates ... descriptions likening him to Toby ... speed, goalkicking, forward pressure, can roll through midfield. I just can't get a good read on him given the highly disparate ratings!

GWS Goose · Jul 28, 2021

Giant Strides said:
Interesting that Twomey has Goater way down at 22, and Rachele at 7; while most other draft watchers have Goater rising and Rachele dropping. What are your thoughts?

I've liked the look of Rachele since his U16s; Vic Country / Murray region so would have some NSW teammates ... descriptions likening him to Toby ... speed, goalkicking, forward pressure, can roll through midfield. I just can't get a good read on him given the highly disparate ratings!

Caruso mentioned him as a top chance also

PMBangers · Jul 28, 2021

Giant Strides said:
Interesting that Twomey has Goater way down at 22, and Rachele at 7; while most other draft watchers have Goater rising and Rachele dropping. What are your thoughts?

I've liked the look of Rachele since his U16s; Vic Country / Murray region so would have some NSW teammates ... descriptions likening him to Toby ... speed, goalkicking, forward pressure, can roll through midfield. I just can't get a good read on him given the highly disparate ratings!

They share the same main query; defensive work, especially off the ball, neither are particularly great two way runners, all though I'd say Goater is at least passable at this stage and has shown improvement as the years progressed, whereas Rachele looks the same, only runs one way and won't actively work to apply pressure or lay a tackle (although that could be confirmation bias to a degree, it's there but might not be as bad as I'm making out). I'm not a massive fan of Rachele's selfishness when in goal kicking range either, been a few times live now that he's had teammates in good spots but hasn't given it, opting for a less likely shot himself, or even having a go at teammates for not giving it to him.

In saying that Goater has more questions marks than some like to admit as well, that off the ball workrate is one I'm not sure on, as I said passable but without the option of being able to go back and watch footage it's hard to be sure of atm, and his kicking, especially under fatigue, is inconsistent which scares me a little, we already have enough butchers by foot

Giant Strides · Jul 28, 2021

PMBangers said:
I'm not a massive fan of Rachele's selfishness when in goal kicking range either, been a few times live now that he's had teammates in good spots but hasn't given it, opting for a less likely shot himself, or even having a go at teammates for not giving it to him.

ToJ MkII -

PMBangers said:
we already have enough butchers by foot

That's for sure ... we need the speed, but we also want decent disposal.

Seems to be a lot of question marks against most of the players.

If Collingwood does finish last, does Horne actually fit the bill for us? (Not that I think it happens! Just asking for a friend.

)

PMBangers · Jul 28, 2021

Giant Strides said:
ToJ MkII -

That's for sure ... we need the speed, but we also want decent disposal.

Seems to be a lot of question marks against most of the players.

If Collingwood does finish last, does Horne actually fit the bill for us? (Not that I think it happens! Just asking for a friend. )

Horne's best is very good obviously, his work in the Under 18s last year was insane, and he's handled league footy well without being a standout at that level. I worry about the lack of improvement to a degree, and I understand the whole 'he's playing half forward flank and that's the hardest position on ground, especially to get huge disposal number' but he gets near the ball enough to find more of it. What he does do with the ball is good though, not Callaghan/ Sinn/ Sonsie at their best good, but good. I'm obviously not going to complain about getting Horne should it eventuate, but I'd hope our recruiters have some serious conversations about Callaghan, or entertain a trade for it (say, Crows first this year and next year for 1 and a future 2nd/3rd) that would put us in a better spot for next years draft where we'll hopefully have some more exposed form.

Giant Strides · Jul 28, 2021

PMBangers said:
Horne's best is very good obviously, his work in the Under 18s last year was insane, and he's handled league footy well without being a standout at that level. I worry about the lack of improvement to a degree, and I understand the whole 'he's playing half forward flank and that's the hardest position on ground, especially to get huge disposal number' but he gets near the ball enough to find more of it. What he does do with the ball is good though, not Callaghan/ Sinn/ Sonsie at their best good, but good. I'm obviously not going to complain about getting Horne should it eventuate, but I'd hope our recruiters have some serious conversations about Callaghan, or entertain a trade for it (say, Crows first this year and next year for 1 and a future 2nd/3rd) that would put us in a better spot for next years draft where we'll hopefully have some more exposed form.

Hmm, Sinn & Sonsie seem to have enough questions about them too, limited impact on some games and we don't want a purely outside type; Finn Callaghan seems likely (although again has some detractors querying his skill level and level of improvement) - but even if the Hawks don't take him (he seems a good fit for them, too), it becomes a question for us of Callaghan v Gibcus. I'd want Callaghan for what he could bring to the midfield, but we need to draft a young tall defender.

Really need a National Championships to get a better gauge on some players ...

PMBangers · Jul 28, 2021

Giant Strides said:
Hmm, Sinn & Sonsie seem to have enough questions about them too, limited impact on some games and we don't want a purely outside type; Finn Callaghan seems likely (although again has some detractors querying his skill level and level of improvement) - but even if the Hawks don't take him (he seems a good fit for them, too), it becomes a question for us of Callaghan v Gibcus. I'd want Callaghan for what he could bring to the midfield, but we need to draft a young tall defender.

Really need a National Championships to get a better gauge on some players ...

Oh yeah for me personally I'd say no to Sinn and Sonsie at our first pick (assuming that it will be pick 3 at this stage), which makes it easy given after Horne and Callaghan I rate the next 5 or 6 fairly evenly (I say as Sinn is in that 6 lol) so Gibcus would be my favourite, and given he came up a bit, that may be the recruiting teams view as well. If Callaghan or Horne slip though my heart would be genuinely torn, it's only early but it doesn't look like next year is going to have a Gibcus quality KPD, maybe if we got Schlensog it'd dampen the blow

Giant Strides · Jul 28, 2021

OK, PMBangers, another question from listening to the Adrian Caruso interview (sorry!

).

Adrian waxed lyrical (a bit) about Mac Andrew. If we make finals and get around pick #11, and we did take a mid (be it Callaghan, Sonsie, Hobbs, Goater etc) with the Pies' pick, and missed out on Gibcus, would Andrew be a reasonable option as a utility to develop as a KPD? (Caruso seemed to emphasise Mac's versatility at 200 cm.)

PMBangers · Jul 28, 2021

Giant Strides said:
OK, PMBangers, another question from listening to the Adrian Caruso interview (sorry! ).

Adrian waxed lyrical (a bit) about Mac Andrew. If we make finals and get around pick #11, and we did take a mid (be it Callaghan, Sonsie, Hobbs, Goater etc) with the Pies' pick, and missed out on Gibcus, would Andrew be a reasonable option as a utility to develop as a KPD? (Caruso seemed to emphasise Mac's versatility at 200 cm.)

I'm a massive Mac fan, has probably the highest ceiling in the class imo, but he's a genuine 5 year project before we can even think about him debuting imo. Has played mostly as a forward and ruck, but as a kick behind play ruck he's shown he can read it in flight well (same as up forward) and hold a contested mark if required. His athleticism is insane as well, especially his agility for his size and ability to get down low for a groundball. Theres one game in particular that a lot of recruiters liked from him, against Gippsland, where he ended up playing essentially as a rover to give you an idea of his athleticism. He's got a lot of bust potential as well though which scares me, but I certainly wouldn't he unhappy with him at our second pick with a mid at our first

Danny88 · Jul 29, 2021

TBh I would prefer we look at needs rather than best available like Caruso said with that first pick. I think the things we need are outside players with speed and class (I don't ask for much eh) and a Key def.

Id like to see gibcus with that first pick and perhaps look outside with the second. My only hesitation is i really like the sound of callaghan. Doubt we get both

Orange crush · Jul 29, 2021

Yeah D88, but seems a nailed on mo that first pick is for best available and needs come second ....

PMBangers · Jul 29, 2021

Danny88 said:
TBh I would prefer we look at needs rather than best available like Caruso said with that first pick. I think the things we need are outside players with speed and class (I don't ask for much eh) and a Key def.

Id like to see gibcus with that first pick and perhaps look outside with the second. My only hesitation is i really like the sound of callaghan. Doubt we get both

If you're happy with a purely outside option then Chesser and Sonsie are capable and should be around our second pick

PMBangers · Aug 2, 2021

may as well shill my own work here. this is my top 20 prospects heading into August with a lot of these guys being ones we've already discussed

fridgeman · Aug 2, 2021

Unlikely to happen but I would like to see the coaches try to turn Sproule into a defender, not completely developed but a good size and a strong aerobic base also i cant see him pushing past the tall forwards and I think the next few years could see the club play 2 rucks so less chances for him to play and this is even if Riccardi stays

GWS Goose · Aug 2, 2021

fridgeman said:
Unlikely to happen but I would like to see the coaches try to turn Sproule into a defender, not completely developed but a good size and a strong aerobic base also i cant see him pushing past the tall forwards and I think the next few years could see the club play 2 rucks so less chances for him to play and this is even if Riccardi stays

He is very whole hearted.
I think they like him and they'll have him in the squad somewhere.

Danny88 · Aug 3, 2021

fridgeman said:
Unlikely to happen but I would like to see the coaches try to turn Sproule into a defender, not completely developed but a good size and a strong aerobic base also i cant see him pushing past the tall forwards and I think the next few years could see the club play 2 rucks so less chances for him to play and this is even if Riccardi stays

Its a pretty good idea I agree

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List Mgmt. 2021 List Management: Academy, Contracts, Trading & Draft

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