List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

[thylacine60]

Analysis: How's Corey Durdin tracking in the VFL?

Luke Power runs through the form of Corey Durdin at VFL level.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[katmanblue]

When did Cerra become this good a little bit hyped up to be honest.
Sure good young player but we making out like it is Sam Walsh.
Yeah would be a good get but at the right price and we have offered 750 k.
We are going to end up like Collingwood overpaying b graders.
Save the money for our young guns like Harry Weitering Walsh.



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Remember when we this excited about getting Williams?

 

[jd2010]

How is this list at 105% of the salary cap?

There better be some very heavy front ended deals reducing in 2022. Even then we are $650k over this year.

Martin and Williams front ended deals aren't dropping by that much from 2021 to 2022 my guess would be $300-400k max. Hopefully across the board there are $50-100k drops for all contracted senior players (Saad, Marchbank, C.Curnow, Weitering, Plowman, McGovern & Docherty) for another $400k drop. Then with Murphy and Casboult finishing up and replaced by draftee deals than should then free up another $300k so $1m drop in total.

Doesn't leave us a heap of room to move though on Walsh and McKay. About $350k up on their current deals in total when really they'd be looking for that much on their own on top of their current deals.

We simply have to try and do a salary dump of Mitch McGovern possibly in the Treloar scenario where we are just shifting off 50% of that fat contract. That frees up another $350k to go to Walsh and McKay.

As for the skipper, it's same deal as currently or under what he is on. If he doesn't take it him and SPS off to Freo for Cerra and a pick. Nets us some more coin for the star players of the team and could be the best outcome for all parties.

 

[Juddernaut08]

How is this list at 105% of the salary cap?

There better be some very heavy front ended deals reducing in 2022. Even then we are $650k over this year.

Martin and Williams front ended deals aren't dropping by that much from 2021 to 2022 my guess would be $300-400k max. Hopefully across the board there are $50-100k drops for all contracted senior players (Saad, Marchbank, C.Curnow, Weitering, Plowman, McGovern & Docherty) for another $400k drop. Then with Murphy and Casboult finishing up and replaced by draftee deals than should then free up another $300k so $1m drop in total.

Doesn't leave us a heap of room to move though on Walsh and McKay. About $350k up on their current deals in total when really they'd be looking for that much on their own on top of their current deals.

We simply have to try and do a salary dump of Mitch McGovern possibly in the Treloar scenario where we are just shifting off 50% of that fat contract. That frees up another $350k to go to Walsh and McKay.

As for the skipper, it's same deal as currently or under what he is on. If he doesn't take it him and SPS off to Freo for Cerra and a pick. Nets us some more coin for the star players of the team and could be the best outcome for all parties.

Complete guesswork.

If you had a clue, you would understand it is better to be at 105% than 104% or less.

We are entitled to go over due to years of austerity. The more we frontload this year means we have more room in future years.

Simple accounting.

 

[jd2010]

Complete guesswork.

If you had a clue, you would understand it is better to be at 105% than 104% or less.

We are entitled to go over due to years of austerity. The more we frontload this year means we have more room in future years.

Simple accounting.

105% this year has to get down to 100% next year. So $600k has to be found. Like I said hopefully there is a $1m worth of front loading going on + we move out some veterans to free up another $400k. Even then I think we are still $400k short to be able to secure McKay post 2021 and Walsh post 2022.

 

[Juddernaut08]

105% this year has to get down to 100% next year. So $600k has to be found. Like I said hopefully there is a $1m worth of front loading going on + we move out some veterans to free up another $400k. Even then I think we are still $400k short to be able to secure McKay post 2021 and Walsh post 2022.

If we were on 103% we would be fools. We should spend the extra 2% on frontloading others.

The more we frontload this year, the more space we have in future years. For this year: Higher is better, not the other way around.

 

[jd2010]

If we were on 103% we would be fools. We should spend the extra 2% on frontloading others.

The more we frontload this year, the more space we have in future years. For this year: Higher is better, not the other way around.

We have to be $600k lower next season. Explain how we reduce our cap by $600k next season whilst increasing Walsh and McKay by about $800k

 

[Juddernaut08]

We have to be $600k lower next season. Explain how we reduce our cap by $600k next season whilst increasing Walsh and McKay by about $800k

Are you trolling or do you actually still not get it?

C'mon dude it's not hard.

 

[Accidental genius]

If we were on 103% we would be fools. We should spend the extra 2% on frontloading others.

The more we frontload this year, the more space we have in future years. For this year: Higher is better, not the other way around.

Are we allowed the 105% because we were lower in previous years?

 

[HereComesJuddy]

105% this year has to get down to 100% next year. So $600k has to be found. Like I said hopefully there is a $1m worth of front loading going on + we move out some veterans to free up another $400k. Even then I think we are still $400k short to be able to secure McKay post 2021 and Walsh post 2022.

You honestly think we are short to pay H and Walsh?

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

My suspicion is perhaps even list management didnt realise H would become the premier forward in the comp so quickly, particularly in the year he is out of contract.. This may have caught them off guard and make things a little harder to balance the books.. Ideally we would just in 1 stroke of a pen tie up Cripps, H & Walshy to long term deals that will see them along with Weiters as the backbone of our team for the next 5 years.

If cap is tight (which i dont think it would be)then we will simply backend the deals knowing that significant $ will free up when McGovern, Martin & Charlie Curnow's contracts expire and those 3 will likely be paid half as much as previous. If we want to turn a negative into a positive the fact that Dow, LOB, Willo, Cunners etc havent kicked on should mean that there contracts remain light and signing our stars shouldnt be difficult.

 

[jd2010]

You honestly think we are short to pay H and Walsh?

We need to find $600k in the salary cap next year just to get back to 100%

Remember we can't stay at 105% next year. So where does the $600k come from before finding another $800k for these two?

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

We need to find $600k in the salary cap next year just to get back to 100%

Remember we can't stay at 105% next year. So where does the $600k come from before finding another $800k for these two?

Why cant we?? My understanding is that we paid unders for years to be in a position to overpay when we needed to..

 

[jd2010]

Why cant we?? My understanding is that we paid unders for years to be in a position to overpay when we needed to..

You can't stay at 105% two years running from what I've heard. We might not need to get all the way back to 100% but regardless we have to find about $400-600k on our current list payments + then find another $800k for Walsh/McKay.

$1.2-1.4m to be found isn't impossible. Was hoping others on here would know a bit more about the front-ending we've managed because that will have to be worth at least $1m of it. The two "big fish" we've landed will only be half at best.

 

[Original Moody Blue]

The biggest recruiting mistake we made at the time was not going really hard after Tom Mitchell. Now there is talk Hawthorn may trade him to restart their rebuilding. Geez we would want to throw everything to get him. if Paddy has to be traded to a WA club for draft picks, then so be it. Consistent 30-40 plus possession getters are hard to find..

 

[KnaveyBlue]

Stengle anyone?

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Saad and Williams will be on less in 2022 than this year

Betts and Murphy won't be on the books in 2022 releasing at a guess $600k or so

McGovern again, less than 2021

Martin less again than in 2021. His big payments were in his 1st and then 2nd year.

SPS most likely at Freo

Dow maybe off to Richmond...

Then theres players like Cas, Setterfield, LOB, Ed, Newnes, williamson, marchbank, plowman etc. Will all these players still be on our 2022 list?

So on and so forth... we will be fine when it comes to money in 2022. I see no need for anyone to think we won't be!

 

[HereComesJuddy]

We need to find $600k in the salary cap next year just to get back to 100%

Remember we can't stay at 105% next year. So where does the $600k come from before finding another $800k for these two?

Mate. Nothing to worry about

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

The biggest recruiting mistake we made at the time was not going really hard after Tom Mitchell. Now there is talk Hawthorn may trade him to restart their rebuilding. Geez we would want to throw everything to get him. if Paddy has to be traded to a WA club for draft picks, then so be it. Consistent 30-40 plus possession getters are hard to find..

FFS we are a fickle lot, Tom Mitchell isn't half the player Paddy Cripps is.. There is no way i would want to lose Crippa to bring in Mitchell.

I heard before Whately on SEN say Sam Edmund confirmed what we all suspected, Cripps is playing with a broken verterbrae and requires weekly injections to get up... Weather you believe the club is managing him correctly by allowing this, the facts dont change our loyal skipper is prepared to put his body through all of this, to play for our club and our supporters... Yet there are a few that are prepared to just throw him out with the trash..

 

[CJMB]

You can't stay at 105% two years running from what I've heard. We might not need to get all the way back to 100% but regardless we have to find about $400-600k on our current list payments + then find another $800k for Walsh/McKay.

$1.2-1.4m to be found isn't impossible. Was hoping others on here would know a bit more about the front-ending we've managed because that will have to be worth at least $1m of it. The two "big fish" we've landed will only be half at best.

You do know how front-loading works, yeah? We push as much as possible across our the playing group to max out the current year, which happens to be at 105% because we 'banked' that extra in previous years, so the following years the big deals reduce in yearly payments.

From all reports Martin was a 7 figure man for his first year with us (or would have been if not for the cuts) but that's over and it drops significantly, potentially down to sub $500k. That's about 35-40% of the amount you're talking about needing to find.

I'd guess players like Weitering who extended recently, Gov when he came across and possibly even Charlie when he extended, were contracts that saw a higher percentage paid to the player early with tapering payments over the duration.

SOS liked the strategy and I would think Austin likely continues with it now the groundwork is setup (ie when you're already front-ending it's easy to continue that way, as opposed to back-ending or a more 'even' approach to major contracts). We also have no idea what the structure of these contracts are, how much is guaranteed and how much is KPI driven? Gov might be on $700k but only if he plays 18+ games, has a top 5 B&F finish and kicks 30+ goals. We have no idea what his base deal is.

Factor in a few retirements (Murph & Betts, maybe Levi?), perhaps some trades/delisting to players in that $200-400k range on top of at least some of the major payments (Martin, any of Gov, Charlie, Weitering, Saad, Williams, etc) tapering and I reckon ~$1.3M should be ok.

I think there's also a collective bargaining agreement coming up shortly, in a month or so, so we'll find out what's happening with the cap there. I dare say the outcome of that meeting could will play a part in the new deals for players like Harry & Cripps.

 

[Stamos]

We need to find $600k in the salary cap next year just to get back to 100%

Remember we can't stay at 105% next year. So where does the $600k come from before finding another $800k for these two?

Martin's contract was for 625 a year for 5 years. Got 1 million a year for his first 2 years, 375 for the next 3.
So there's your 600 for next year straight up.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

You do know how front-loading works, yeah? We push as much as possible across our the playing group to max out the current year, which happens to be at 105% because we 'banked' that extra in previous years, so the following years the big deals reduce in yearly payments.

From all reports Martin was a 7 figure man for his first year with us (or would have been if not for the cuts) but that's over and it drops significantly, potentially down to sub $500k. That's about 35-40% of the amount you're talking about needing to find.

I'd guess players like Weitering who extended recently, Gov when he came across and possibly even Charlie when he extended, were contracts that saw a higher percentage paid to the player early with tapering payments over the duration.

SOS liked the strategy and I would think Austin likely continues with it now the groundwork is setup (ie when you're already front-ending it's easy to continue that way, as opposed to back-ending or a more 'even' approach to major contracts). We also have no idea what the structure of these contracts are, how much is guaranteed and how much is KPI driven? Gov might be on $700k but only if he plays 18+ games, has a top 5 B&F finish and kicks 30+ goals. We have no idea what his base deal is.

Factor in a few retirements (Murph & Betts, maybe Levi?), perhaps some trades/delisting to players in that $200-400k range on top of at least some of the major payments (Martin, any of Gov, Charlie, Weitering, Saad, Williams, etc) tapering and I reckon ~$1.3M should be ok.

I think there's also a collective bargaining agreement coming up shortly, in a month or so, so we'll find out what's happening with the cap there. I dare say the outcome of that meeting could will play a part in the new deals for players like Harry & Cripps.

Spot on allthough with the tightening of the strings hard to see the CBA increasing too much.

 

[Original Moody Blue]

FFS we are a fickle lot, Tom Mitchell isn't half the player Paddy Cripps is.. There is no way i would want to lose Crippa to bring in Mitchell.

I heard before Whately on SEN say Sam Edmund confirmed what we all suspected, Cripps is playing with a broken verterbrae and requires weekly injections to get up... Weather you believe the club is managing him correctly by allowing this, the facts dont change our loyal skipper is prepared to put his body through all of this, to play for our club and our supporters... Yet there are a few that are prepared to just throw him out with the trash..

If Cripps has a broken vertebra as you put it, then it is nothing short of criminal negligence that he is being injected with a pain killer and then pushed onto the ground. He should stand out until he is right. What happens in 2 or 3 years when he permanently disabled and unable to play or live a normal life? Have we learned nothing from the Ty Zantuck case where he was being injected with epidurals and is now suing Richmond?

Mitchell already cost us one game in Tasmania with his 40+ possessions. He is a true ball magnet and a natural midfielder. I will dispute whether Paddy is a better player, but they definitely compliment each other. The reality is that you can't have both. Sometimes in footy you have to make these calls. I am mortified though if what you said is true. Even it was nerve damage or a disc, they should not be doing it.

 

[Original Moody Blue]

When Dusty was on the outer at Richmond and looking for other clubs, none took a punt... Now we all wish we had....

 

[Arr0w]

We have been backing cap space for a while, hence we are spending it now.

Most of our contracts are front loaded