List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

[Original Moody Blue]

We have been backing cap space for a while, hence we are spending it now.

Most of our contracts are front loaded

Well we have 4 new recruits on very good coin who are going to be with us for 3-4 years. Better pray they improve or we could we watching Norf wave goodbye to us as they climb the ladder.

 

[Arr0w]

Well we have 4 new recruits on very good coin who are going to be with us for 3-4 years. Better pray they improve or we could we watching Norf wave goodbye to us as they climb the ladder.

Has nothing to do with my post regarding managing cap space

As for Norf passing us, I very much doubt that will happen over the next 5 years

 

[jd2010]

You do know how front-loading works, yeah? We push as much as possible across our the playing group to max out the current year, which happens to be at 105% because we 'banked' that extra in previous years, so the following years the big deals reduce in yearly payments.

From all reports Martin was a 7 figure man for his first year with us (or would have been if not for the cuts) but that's over and it drops significantly, potentially down to sub $500k. That's about 35-40% of the amount you're talking about needing to find.

I'd guess players like Weitering who extended recently, Gov when he came across and possibly even Charlie when he extended, were contracts that saw a higher percentage paid to the player early with tapering payments over the duration.

I get how it works. My point is how much front-loading can there really be on the non-big deals. Perhaps another $50-100k saving per year on each of the guys like Charlie and Gov and a few others. My gut feel for the saving there is less than $500k

 

[jd2010]

I think there's also a collective bargaining agreement coming up shortly, in a month or so, so we'll find out what's happening with the cap there. I dare say the outcome of that meeting could will play a part in the new deals for players like Harry & Cripps.

This is the bigger saving grace for us than front loaded medium sized deals like Docherty and Weitering finding us the $500k we need. If the cap increases by $1m a year then sure we've got room to move. But without that and without offloading a McGovern we won't be signing all 3 of Cripps, Walsh and McKay

 

[jd2010]

Martin's contract was for 625 a year for 5 years. Got 1 million a year for his first 2 years, 375 for the next 3.
So there's your 600 for next year straight up.

He isn't on a million this year. Crazy to think you actually believe someone signs a deal for $1m, $1m, $375k, $375k & $375k.

It was $1m in the first year and $750k in the second. Like I said already he will be a $200-300k saving from this year to next, the AFL don't allow for contracts to be halved in payment terms year on year.

 

[Stamos]

He isn't on a million this year. Crazy to think you actually believe someone signs a deal for $1m, $1m, $375k, $375k & $375k.

It was $1m in the first year and $750k in the second. Like I said already he will be a $200-300k saving from this year to next, the AFL don't allow for contracts to be halved in payment terms year on year.

Was actually over 1 million last year

RICH LIST: AFL's 11 biggest earners revealed

These are the highest-paid players in the game – but in one way they're also the unluckiest.

7news.com.au

.

 

[Jeremias]

But without that and without offloading a McGovern we won't be signing all 3 of Cripps, Walsh and McKay

He isn't on a million this year. Crazy to think you actually believe someone signs a deal for $1m, $1m, $375k, $375k & $375k.

It was $1m in the first year and $750k in the second. Like I said already he will be a $200-300k saving from this year to next, the AFL don't allow for contracts to be halved in payment terms year on year.

How could you possibly know the above?

 

[jd2010]

How could you possibly know the above?

I've got contacts.....

In all seriousness I know about the TPP software build up that the AFL implemented a few years back and that's one of the criteria that was part of the build

 

[jd2010]

Was actually over 1 million last year

RICH LIST: AFL's 11 biggest earners revealed

These are the highest-paid players in the game – but in one way they're also the unluckiest.

7news.com.au

.

There you go. $1.2m to $800k this year. He will be on $500-600k next year. Leaving $500k for the final 2 years, at $300k and $200k

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

The AFL should consider a rule where if a player suffers a season ending injury ie marchbank and his acl a team should be able to promote someone from their VFL team immediately instead of waiting till mid season draft , but only from their own VFL team . We could bring Crocker onto the senior list , Melbourne could bring someone from their VFL team to cover Tomlinson . But if bringing someone from an opposition VFL team then that team must wait until the mid season draft . AFL teams should have first dibs on someone on their VFL list . Just a thought .

Isn't that why we have 40+ players on a team that only fields 22 each week?

 

[Juddernaut08]

I get how it works. My point is how much front-loading can there really be on the non-big deals. Perhaps another $50-100k saving per year on each of the guys like Charlie and Gov and a few others. My gut feel for the saving there is less than $500k

The point is, no matter how much cap space there is, the club would have front loaded the maximum amount possible.

This means that we were always going to pay 105% of the cap this year, whether we are in trouble or not. Talking about the 105% as being an issue is completely missing the point.

 

[Jeremias]

I've got contacts.....

In all seriousness I know about the TPP software build up that the AFL implemented a few years back and that's one of the criteria that was part of the build

OK, that explains the bolded. And the rest of the quotes?

 

[jd2010]

OK, that explains the bolded. And the rest of the quotes?

What rest?

I've said that Williams and Martin will be about a $600k drop which gets us back to the 100%. We then have to find more than just that to get McKay and Walsh signed on. I've also thrown out the names of about 8 other guys who might have another $500k worth of front ending that we save next year which I don't think will be enough to counter off the pay rises to those 2 players. Retirements replaced by draftee wages might just be enough to get it all done at a stretch. With another round of Williams and Martin $300-400k coming free in 2023. It's definitely a tight cap for a side not banging down the door on the top 4.

 

[blue healer]

People do understand that when re-signing a player the impact on the cap is the difference between what they were paid and what they will be paid, yeah.

For instance if Cripps is on $600 now and we re-sign him for $800 it increases our TPP by $200 only.

 

[CJMB]

People do understand that when re-signing a player the impact on the cap is the difference between what they were paid and what they will pay, yeah.

For instance if Cripps is on $600 now and we re-sign him for $800 it increases our TPP by $200 only.

...and it's not like Cripps or Harry's contracts are a surprise... we knew they needed renewing by the end of this year. Harry's is perhaps a bit higher than might have been expected but then Cripps' might be a little lower. Same goes for Walsh next year, it would have always been on the cards that it could be a big increase.

You'd guess we probably bring in 5 or 6 new players next year through the various drafts, they're all going to be on basement wages, so the difference between a Murph/Betts/Kennedy/etc who retire or are traded/delisted probably averages at least $100k per player, possibly double that or more. Fringe players might be extended on a reduced contract where they're happy to take the security of an extra year at a lower amount.

 

[Blue Pride]

Didn’t Gibbs

He isn't on a million this year. Crazy to think you actually believe someone signs a deal for $1m, $1m, $375k, $375k & $375k.

It was $1m in the first year and $750k in the second. Like I said already he will be a $200-300k saving from this year to next, the AFL don't allow for contracts to be halved in payment terms year on year.
[/QUOTE

didn’t Gibbs get paid most of his contract upfront which is why it was so attractive to leave?

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I've got contacts.....

In all seriousness I know about the TPP software build up that the AFL implemented a few years back and that's one of the criteria that was part of the build

Ned Guy returns!

 

[Jeremias]

What rest?

The rest:

But without that and without offloading a McGovern we won't be signing all 3 of Cripps, Walsh and McKay

I am not sure how you could possibly be so definitive about this.

Do you know how much Gov is being paid in 2022? Do you know how much Cripps and McKay are asking for?

Just to clarify - you're suggesting one of Walsh or McGovern won't be on the list in 2023 if we re-sign both Cripps and McKay?

That sounds like complete guesswork to me. But even if it were true I'm not sure it's a particularly difficult decision to make.

He isn't on a million this year. Crazy to think you actually believe someone signs a deal for $1m, $1m, $375k, $375k & $375k.

It was $1m in the first year and $750k in the second.

Knowing the software is one thing, knowing the intricacies of the contracts is a different story. How do you know what the contract terms are, and why do you think the version you think you know is so much more accurate than that which you are dismissing?

 

[jd2010]

The rest:



I am not sure how you could possibly be so definitive about this.

Do you know how much Gov is being paid in 2022? Do you know how much Cripps and McKay are asking for?

Just to clarify - you're suggesting one of Walsh or McGovern won't be on the list in 2023 if we re-sign both Cripps and McKay?

That sounds like complete guesswork to me. But even if it were true I'm not sure it's a particularly difficult decision to make.



Knowing the software is one thing, knowing the intricacies of the contracts is a different story. How do you know what the contract terms are, and why do you think the version you think you know is so much more accurate than that which you are dismissing?

I know that the AFL explicitly wanted in the software that front loading couldn't see the scenario above of $1m, $1m, $375k. They would allow in extreme cases for it to be allowed. But Jack Martin walking in the PSD wouldn't be one of those where we'd get approval for his contract to more than half.

My feel for the room in the cap is that there isn't the extra $800k a year we need for Walsh and McKay when there is in 2022 at least $1.7m set aside for Martin ($600k), Williams ($600-750k) and McGovern ($500-700k) and we already have to bring spend down by $600k. It's basic math reduce by -$600k (cap back to 100%) whilst increasing by $800k (Mckay and Walsh) means we have to find $1.4m on our current spend.

As I've said many times now, $500-600k at best from the front ended main two recruits. Leaves us $800-900k to find. Retirements should net another $300-400k. Leaving us $400-500k short. That's the grey area that could very well be doable with massively front ended savings coming from Docherty, Charlie, Marchbank, Plowman, Weitering etc. There's about 8 guys that could fit into that category that we need to have their 2022 base salary reducing by $50-100k on top of the big 2 well publicised front end deals.

Hopefully SOS has sorted it out and there isn't a massive cap squeeze. But for now it is a big watch this space. Not to mention the extra $800k we'd be giving to McKay and Walsh is about $500k short of what they would be able to get if they left. You don't want any sort of pressure on the cap when you're not that close to the top 4. You don't mind it if you're in the 8 and within touching distance.

 

[DeepBlue]

Looks like it’s our turn this year for media salary cap pressure opinions

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I know that the AFL explicitly wanted in the software that front loading couldn't see the scenario above of $1m, $1m, $375k. They would allow in extreme cases for it to be allowed. But Jack Martin walking in the PSD wouldn't be one of those where we'd get approval for his contract to more than half.

My feel for the room in the cap is that there isn't the extra $800k a year we need for Walsh and McKay when there is in 2022 at least $1.7m set aside for Martin ($600k), Williams ($600-750k) and McGovern ($500-700k) and we already have to bring spend down by $600k. It's basic math reduce by -$600k (cap back to 100%) whilst increasing by $800k (Mckay and Walsh) means we have to find $1.4m on our current spend.

As I've said many times now, $500-600k at best from the front ended main two recruits. Leaves us $800-900k to find. Retirements should net another $300-400k. Leaving us $400-500k short. That's the grey area that could very well be doable with massively front ended savings coming from Docherty, Charlie, Marchbank, Plowman, Weitering etc. There's about 8 guys that could fit into that category that we need to have their 2022 base salary reducing by $50-100k on top of the big 2 well publicised front end deals.

Hopefully SOS has sorted it out and there isn't a massive cap squeeze. But for now it is a big watch this space. Not to mention the extra $800k we'd be giving to McKay and Walsh is about $500k short of what they would be able to get if they left. You don't want any sort of pressure on the cap when you're not that close to the top 4. You don't mind it if you're in the 8 and within touching distance.

Why are you including we need to find $800k for Walsh in 2022?

 

[Koutamightafides]

Isn't that why we have 40+ players on a team that only fields 22 each week?

I realise that I'm saying if someone gets a season ending injury and put on the long term injury list by the club .

 

[Koutamightafides]

Looks like it’s our turn this year for media salary cap pressure opinions

Just hope they have enough to keep Walsh for ten years at least .

 

[jd2010]

Why are you including we need to find $800k for Walsh in 2022?

Because we will like to get his contracted sorted before he goes into his final year

 

[Accidental genius]

People do understand that when re-signing a player the impact on the cap is the difference between what they were paid and what they will be paid, yeah.

For instance if Cripps is on $600 now and we re-sign him for $800 it increases our TPP by $200 only.

Someone is thinking.