2021 Non-Crows AFL Discussion Part 1: we can have lots of fun!

[BronCrow]

There'll be more female umpires in the future. History won't remember that she umpired well or poorly, just that she was a pioneer/trailblazer

Being the first to do something does not necessarily mean that she is worthy of the reward that she received. After all, nobody is suggesting that Luc Longley should be in the Naismith Hall of Fame, despite being the first Australian to play in the NBA.


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[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Being the first to do something does not necessarily mean that she is worthy of the reward that she received. After all, nobody is suggesting that Luc Longley should be in the Naismith Hall of Fame, despite being the first Australian to play in the NBA.

Yeah it does

What is the Naismith Hall of Fame?

Of course Longley should get whatever basketball honour we offer

Lots of people have climbed Everest now. Can you name anyone other than the first guy?

Who was our 2nd person to run the 4 minute mile?

 

[Dudersaurus]

Yeah it does

What is the Naismith Hall of Fame?

Of course Longley should get whatever basketball honour we offer

Lots of people have climbed Everest now. Can you name anyone other than the first guy?

Who was our 2nd person to run the 4 minute mile?

Longley definitely deserves props, even if it is just for genetics rather than being particularly good at basketball. But that imo would be for being our most successful (I think) NBA player and part of one of histories greatest teams.

If he just made a squad, maybe played a game then was cut, being first imo would not be worth awards.

 

[hey shorty]

Yeah it does

What is the Naismith Hall of Fame?

Of course Longley should get whatever basketball honour we offer

Lots of people have climbed Everest now. Can you name anyone other than the first guy?

Who was our 2nd person to run the 4 minute mile?

Ukyo Katayama, former F1 driver climbed Everest and the other 5 biggest peaks in winter. First man to do in winter I believe.

Other than that no idea.

 

[BronCrow]

Yeah it does

What is the Naismith Hall of Fame?

Of course Longley should get whatever basketball honour we offer

Lots of people have climbed Everest now. Can you name anyone other than the first guy?

Who was our 2nd person to run the 4 minute mile?

The Naismith Hall of Fame is the Hall of Fame for the greatest Players and Coaches in Basketball i.e. Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson etc. Luc is unlikely to every be considered to be in that class.

He has been given all the Basketball Awards available in this country. He also has an OAM as well.

My point is that being the first to do something doesn’t make it a major achievement.

Comparing Eleni’s efforts to Sir Edmund Hillary’s or Roger Bannister’s is rather disingenuous.

The most worrying thing is that for her to be awarded an OAM, someone would have had to nominate her.


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[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

The Naismith Hall of Fame is the Hall of Fame for the greatest Players and Coaches in Basketball i.e. Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson etc. Luc is unlikely to every be considered to be in that class.

He has been given all the Basketball Awards available in this country. He also has an OAM as well.

My point is that being the first to do something doesn’t make it a major achievement.

Why would Americans care about Longley? In their scheme of things he's nothing.

Australian basketball hall of fame though he's something.

Eleni hasn't won some big international honour

Comparing Eleni’s efforts to Sir Edmund Hillary’s or Roger Bannister’s is rather disingenuous.

No one's doing that. Simply illustrating the impact of being first.

 

[BronCrow]

Why would Americans care about Longley? In their scheme of things he's nothing.

Australian basketball hall of fame though he's something.

Eleni hasn't won some big international honour


No one's doing that. Simply illustrating the impact of being first.

You appear to miss the point.

You suggested that as Eleni Glouftis was the first woman to umpire an AFL/VFL match, that she should receive higher acknowledgment for this, which I would argue is not the case.

I used Luc Longley being the first Australian in the NBA as an example as to why I feel this is not the case.

Respectfully, by using Sir Edmund Hillary and Roger Bannister as an illustration of the first to do something you are, possibly unintentionally, comparing her achievements to theirs in some way.


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[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

You appear to miss the point.

You suggested that as Eleni Glouftis was the first woman to umpire an AFL/VFL match, that she should receive higher acknowledgment for this, which I would argue is not the case.

It is the case.

She was the first.

In what has been a male dominated sport that has been played for 100+ years.

Now there will be more and more female umpires.

I used Luc Longley being the first Australian in the NBA as an example as to why I feel this is not the case.

Luc Longley will be in the Australian Basketball Hall of Fame if he is not already. He is a significant figure in Australian basketball.

Respectfully, by using Sir Edmund Hillary and Roger Bannister as an illustration of the first to do something you are, possibly unintentionally, comparing her achievements to theirs in some way.

Obviously I'm not comparing the achievements or saying that climbing tens of thousands of metres is the same as umpiring a game of football or gets the same worldwide recognition.

You were saying that just because she was first doesn't make it anything special which I disagreed with.

First matters. In any field.

The 10th female AFL field umpire won't get an OAM. But she's more likely to have taken up umpiring in the first place because of the path Eleni has forged. Which is the impact and what's being recognised here.

She hasn't won a Nobel Prize or been crowned Greatest Human in History. It's a small, local recognition for a small, local achievement.

 

[DJ75]

Longley definitely deserves props, even if it is just for genetics rather than being particularly good at basketball. But that imo would be for being our most successful (I think) NBA player and part of one of histories greatest teams.

If he just made a squad, maybe played a game then was cut, being first imo would not be worth awards.

You are being pretty harsh on Longley here. Big Luc was more than just tall. There have been plenty of tall players that don't make it (Schenscher anyone?)
Longley was a good low block defender, but most importantly, he has an excellent passer (a bit like Bogut). It was his passing that the Bulls wanted as it helped them run their triangle offence through him. The 3 Championships he played in are obviously due to Jordan, Pippen, Rodman etc..., but don't down play how important Longley was as well.

 

[hey shorty]

You are being pretty harsh on Longley here. Big Luc was more than just tall. There have been plenty of tall players that don't make it (Schenscher anyone?)
Longley was a good low block defender, but most importantly, he has an excellent passer (a bit like Bogut). It was his passing that the Bulls wanted as it helped them run their triangle offence through him. The 3 Championships he played in are obviously due to Jordan, Pippen, Rodman etc..., but don't down play how important Longley was as well.

I do see Luke around the place a bit, he's a gentle giant of a man.... And I mean GIANT

 

[DJ75]

I do see Luke around the place a bit, he's a gentle giant of a man.... And I mean GIANT

He is definitely a giant. He's a huge unit. And a terrific bloke - a gentle giant as you say.
However, I would not want to get on the wrong side of him...

 

[Eagleboy2011]

Being the first to do something does not necessarily mean that she is worthy of the reward that she received. After all, nobody is suggesting that Luc Longley should be in the Naismith Hall of Fame, despite being the first Australian to play in the NBA.


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Is being the first female to officiate in a sport now the norm and do we expect soccer, basketball, wrestling etc now expected to get OA medals. She is an average (to be kind) umpire. If not for Covid and the hubs, would she has had as many games this year. A totally undeserved award at this stage of her life.

 

[Dudersaurus]

You are being pretty harsh on Longley here. Big Luc was more than just tall. There have been plenty of tall players that don't make it (Schenscher anyone?)
Longley was a good low block defender, but most importantly, he has an excellent passer (a bit like Bogut). It was his passing that the Bulls wanted as it helped them run their triangle offence through him. The 3 Championships he played in are obviously due to Jordan, Pippen, Rodman etc..., but don't down play how important Longley was as well.

Don't disagree, and for a guy his size he was pretty good. If though he was a foot shorter would he have even got a game? Doubtful.

 

[hey shorty]

Don't disagree, and for a guy his size he was pretty good. If though he was a foot shorter would he have even got a game? Doubtful.

Same could be said for a lot of players.

Even Mugsy Bogues

 

[Dudersaurus]

Same could be said for a lot of players.

Even Mugsy Bogues

Yeah, my point. I know plenty of tall people who are lazy fxxxs who go nowhere, just like I know plenty of really smart lazy people who go nowhere.

He obviously had drive to succeed, and if a foot shorter may have played a different role or different sport at an elite level.

My original point though was that his initial appeal in the NBA, place in the team and source of his eventual success was substantially, if not mostly, due to his genetic traits.

 

[Peter Doherty]

AFL Club Lists for 2021 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

Wonder if the Saints will get any pressure from the media. They have the oldest list this year, anything less than a GF appearance is almost a failure.

 

[Vader]

AFL Club Lists for 2021 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

Wonder if the Saints will get any pressure from the media. They have the oldest list this year, anything less than a GF appearance is almost a failure.

That's weird... they've listed Newchurch & Borlase as being on our Senior List, not Cat B rookies.

 

[subaru]

Nope.
Kornes is a campaigner....you can read him like a book, no need to analyse any of the crap that falls out of his mouth in regard to Tex.

Not at all he's a campaigner end of story, totally irrelevant what his name, parentage or club alignment is....hence to be known as Kampaigner with a capital "K".

You’re obsessed with your pro Port rhetoric.

I see there was a rush to hand their OA’s back.
Did anyone else other than Kerry O’Brien signal their virtues?

Transgender GP Clara Tuck Meng Soo handed back her Order of Australia.

Several others also handed their back in protest.

There were 570 recipients of the Order of Australia. To hand it back because of 1 is an insult to the other 568. While there's a handful that in many peoples view dont deserve it (think most public servants), there are many who do and deserve all the plaudits they can get.

Kerry O'Brien, who is also on the list of people who have become millionaires from the public purse that doesn't deserve another award for doing his damn job, should perhaps let others have a bit of the spotlight.

 

[cleanhands]

I do see Luke around the place a bit, he's a gentle giant of a man.... And I mean GIANT

Have you moved to Perth?

 

[hey shorty]

Have you moved to Perth?

Luke Schenscher lives in Adelaide, well the hills.

 

[cleanhands]

Luke Schenscher lives in Adelaide, well the hills.

Sorry read it as Luc Longley, me bad hair day

 

[BronCrow]

Sorry read it as Luc Longley, me bad hair day

You read it correctly, it is Luc Longley that I bought up. Shorty has it wrong.


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[cleanhands]

You read it correctly, it is Luc Longley that I bought up. Shorty has it wrong.


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Dj75 mentioned Schenscher, is where Shorty pick it up, anyway splitting hairs

 

[hey shorty]

You read it correctly, it is Luc Longley that I bought up. Shorty has it wrong.


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Actually I wasn't referring to your post, so no.

 

[1970crow]

It's a much bigger insult to the other 568 that they have to share the award with a person who has mainly used her platform to spread hate against a subset of our population (and really could go back 40-50 years with this), all because she was good at sports yoinks ago.

A very commendable (and moral) stance from O'Brien and co. to reject it, and to call out Courts OAM for the absolutely disgusting decision that it was.

Subsequent reports suggest they felt compelled because her achievements matched Laver's and they didn't want gender inequality to be seen to be the reason she wasn't elevated to his status. Whole thing is a laugh, half the recipients get it for doing well paid, high profile or government jobs. The other half get it for doing work that feeds their soul, not for external recognition. O'Brien and this Sheila are knobs. It's not their call to tell the committee, no matter how idiotic it is, who gets what. Don't want it, fine, say no, but do it quietly.