List Mgmt. 2021 Trade & List Management Thread II - IN: CCJ

[giantroo]

Spoiler: Lore's 2021 Draft Order

Spoiler: Lore's 2022 Future Picks Draft Order

 

[The Lone Latic]

Dmac wants 3 years on slightly better money if he comes across.

As in 3 years for a total of $500k? I'd presume it was a 2 year contract offer with a decreased 2nd year to offset the 1st year $500k so 2 years for 700k? And he wants a $1m+ over 3 years? Oft.... depends on how badly we want pick 19

 

[TiggerMan22]

I suspect you're creating your own arbitrary metrics to form an argument.

Because there's no reason to timebox the period in play. Robbie Tarrant was a 1st round pick we held on the list for years without return. He became our vice-captain.

Richmond should probably offer us a 1st or 2nd rounder in recognition of this investment.

See how this works.

Yeh I'm not. Its really not that hard to understand. Established players have shown what they can do at AFL level, their original draft position no longer holds value as they can be fully judged on AFL level play.

Young players like CCJ (9 AFL games) and Nank (12 AFL games before trade) who can't crack into their teams because theres no space for them are different. Their value is still tied partly to how they were rated outside the AFL system. You can't really judge those guys purely on their AFL exposure can you? So you base it on their pre-AFL form and then what they have done since to increase or decrease it.

 

[ferball]

And where were each of them originally drafted?

Who cares?

Lol.

Next year's third and change.

And there is nothing you can do about it.

Absolutely nothing.

LOL.

 

[The Lone Latic]

Nothing to stop Tarrant going through the PSD.

No one else will pick him knowing he won’t play for them.


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Then CCJ probs goes to the PSD in this scenario as well I'm guessing

 

[LB2Snake]

As in 3 years for a total of $500k? I'd presume it was a 2 year contract offer with a decreased 2nd year to offset the 1st year $500k so 2 years for 700k? And he wants a $1m+ over 3 years? Oft.... depends on how badly we want pick 19

Interested to see how Brady plays this hand.

 

[Tas]

I think they want to avoid lodging the FA paperwork altogether.

I agree. I know they want to do a trade, but we need to know what compensation we would get for him. If AFL will give us a second round, we have zero incentive to do a trade for him unless Richmond gave us at least something equal to what we would get from FA comp.

 

[7577969923]

I agree. I know they want to do a trade, but we need to know what compensation we would get for him. If AFL will give us a second round, we have zero incentive to do a trade for him unless Richmond gave us at least something equal to what we would get from FA comp.

Does it work that way? Can you lodge and withdraw?

 

[Liam Boy]

the fact that a deal hasn't been done yet only bodes poorly for richmond. if trade period runs out without a deal, they lose. he leaves for nothing, robbie goes through free agency, followed by little or no compensation for chol.

 

[giantroo]

 

[The Anvil]

I agree. I know they want to do a trade, but we need to know what compensation we would get for him. If AFL will give us a second round, we have zero incentive to do a trade for him unless Richmond gave us at least something equal to what we would get from FA comp.

Assuming they would need to put the paperwork in to find out the compo, at that point it's all over and it's Chol Compo - Tarrant Compo.

 

[TiggerMan22]

No bearing whatsoever. It's what an economist would call a sunk cost. No matter what happens you can't get that pick back.

Absolutely does. You guys would not be offering him a $2million contract if we picked him up at pick #70. That contract is not based on what hes shown at AFL level is it? Hes played 9 AFL games in 3 years and 5 VFL games in the last 2 years. What else are you basing this on?

But hey maybe his 27 goals in 21 VFL games and 11 goals in 9 AFL games is what made you offer $2million.

 

[Le Grille]

Yeh I'm not. Its really not that hard to understand. Established players have shown what they can do at AFL level, their original draft position no longer holds value as they can be fully judged on AFL level play.

Young players like CCJ (9 AFL games) and Nank (12 AFL games before trade) who can't crack into their teams because theres no space for them are different. Their value is still tied partly to how they were rated outside the AFL system. You can't really judge those guys purely on their AFL exposure can you? So you base it on their pre-AFL form and then what they have done since to increase or decrease it.

He’s done nothing to increase it or even maintain it to be honest, if he had there would be other clubs vying for his services, the only buyer is us and we have no requirement to deal to get him. The fact we are is good faith in itself.

 

[7577969923]

Absolutely does. You guys would not be offering him a $2million contract if we picked him up at pick #70. That contract is not based on what hes shown at AFL level is it? Hes played 9 AFL games in 3 years and 5 VFL games in the last 2 years. What else are you basing this on?

But hey maybe his 27 goals in 21 VFL games and 11 goals in 9 AFL games is what made you offer $2million.

What we offer wouldn't be any different than if he was picked at the back end of the rookie draft. Based on your logic CCJ would be worth more in trade than Nick Larkey, for example, who was drafted in the 70s. In reality Larkey is would be worth far more in a trade.

 

[giantroo]

Dmac discussion

View attachment video-1633329574.mp4

 

[buttox]

Does it work that way? Can you lodge and withdraw?

nope.
Once the application is in he is a FA.
You cant find out compo until application is in.
This is due to it being a comparison with all players in the league. (which changes every time someone signs on.)

 

[Shinboner1]

Dmac wants 3 years on slightly better money if he comes across.

makes sense.
Any idea how much we're paying him?
Doubt itd be in the 500k range

 

[Le Grille]

Absolutely does. You guys would not be offering him a $2million contract if we picked him up at pick #70. That contract is not based on what hes shown at AFL level is it? Hes played 9 AFL games in 3 years and 5 VFL games in the last 2 years. What else are you basing this on?

But hey maybe his 27 goals in 21 VFL games and 11 goals in 9 AFL games is what made you offer $2million.

Apparently $370 k I the average, we have had to pay extra as most clubs do to bring someone across it’s clear 4 years is for security.

I mean I’d assume nank was given a contract in a similar range $ wise maybe not length

 

[King Corey]

Yeh I'm not. Its really not that hard to understand. Established players have shown what they can do at AFL level, their original draft position no longer holds value as they can be fully judged on AFL level play.

Young players like CCJ (9 AFL games) and Nank (12 AFL games before trade) who can't crack into their teams because theres no space for them are different. Their value is still tied partly to how they were rated outside the AFL system. You can't really judge those guys purely on their AFL exposure can you? So you base it on their pre-AFL form and then what they have done since to increase or decrease it.

You're entitled to your view. I think there is probably a blurry statute on retaining draft position value but at 4 seasons in it's passed imo.

If we came after CCJ in 2019 there'd be a reasonable argument that Richmond want more realisation of their original pick #20.

If we want to cite Nankervis as mentioned as precedent - he depreciated 1 round in value. 2nd round pick in 2013 traded for a 3rd round pick just 3 years later.

Applying the same logic to CCJ, his 2nd round selection should depreciate until at least a 3rd round selection - if not later because he comes with an off-field conduct disclaimer and an extra year on the clock.

 

[shimaburnsgrieg]

Dmac wants 3 years on slightly better money if he comes across.

Slightly better per year or slightly better overall?

If he is on 500 per year now we should not be offering him 550 per year for 3 years.

However if he wants a mill over 3 years then we could do that - the third year would need triggers.

 

[Tas]

This maxpherson lad needs to pull his head in.

You're potentially gracing the field with the greatest mid-HF of all time you peanut.

You take what's on offer and be thankful.

He is contracted, he has every right to do what he thinks is in his best interest. I think if he is concerned we only care about pick 19 then a longer commitment would probably reassure him.

I still think we will be right for 3 years in terms of finding people to get rid of to make room for future drafts.

 

[Clarke is King]

Dmac wants 3 years on slightly better money if he comes across.

He knows Gold Coast don’t want him yeah? The nerve on this kid!

 

[1975]

Nothing to stop Tarrant going through the PSD.

No one else will pick him knowing he won’t play for them.


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Fine, think the club has moved on.
ultimately if CJ doesn’t want to walk to the PSD we use 20 on a very good player.
Handing over 20 and trading Robbie so they can keep their Chol compo isn’t going to happen.

 

[justroyal]

Can’t believe I’m actually impressed by Ralph

 

[Tas]

Assuming they would need to put the paperwork in to find out the compo, at that point it's all over and it's Chol Compo - Tarrant Compo.

I think you can ask the AFL to get an indicative ruling on what the compensation will be for the terms provided, before everyone signs off on it. I assume Richmond are going to pay him around what we offered him, it can't be a lot less than what Geelong agreed to pay for Smith.

Maybe it is just better we don't agree to a trade for Tarrant, because I can see us getting dicked on his trade.

 

[the flying ham]

Wow, Richmond supporters now making fun of Rhyce's health issues because ... they're angry about a media report about the opening stages of a trade for a fringe player.

Enjoy being irrelevant again for decades.

Hopefully they go broke again, except this time I won't be giving them money.

View attachment 1252625

To be fair you got stuck into saints supporters over pedophilia and child abuse. Hardly a shining light here