List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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aussierulesrules

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Yeah Billings will be a really interesting one.

Has most likely been pretty significantly overpaid over the course of his career, so unless he pulls out a corker of a season, he'd probably be looking down the barrel of a fair sized pay-cut- if he stays- yet at the same time, one or more other clubs will likely be offering him wads of cash.

Will be fascinating to see how both he and Seb go this year, as they are in similar boats, so to speak.

If one goes well while the other one has another underwhelming season, will we cut the latter one loose?
 

Mowman

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Yeah Billings will be a really interesting one.

Has most likely been pretty significantly overpaid over the course of his career, so unless he pulls out a corker of a season, he'd probably be looking down the barrel of a fair sized pay-cut- if he stays- yet at the same time, one or more other clubs will likely be offering him wads of cash.

Will be fascinating to see how both he and Seb go this year, as they are in similar boats, so to speak.

If one goes well while the other one has another underwhelming season, will we cut the latter one loose?
Think you're on the money

Also think its a good thing and shows how much stronger our list is

Billings has been paid on potential for a few years and also with our list being so thin we couldn't afford to lose a pick 3
 

gringo2011

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Yeah Billings will be a really interesting one.

Has most likely been pretty significantly overpaid over the course of his career, so unless he pulls out a corker of a season he'd probably be looking down the barrel of a fair sized pay-cut if he stays, yet at the same time one or more other clubs will likely be offering him wads of cash.

Will be fascinating to see how both he and Seb go this year, as they are in similar boats, so to speak.

If he doesn't fire I doubt anyone comes with bags of cash in a year when there are literally the cream of the competition up as free agents. Bont, Merrett, Kelly, Luke Parker etc are going to get people a lot more excited. To me he's like a Cam Guthrie (although he just had a great season) in that he's sort of lost in that middler class of players. He's not a champion and he's not even really playing any defined role. I honestly can't see him getting more from anyone than he's earned at the Saints. He's a beautifully skilled player and he's adaptable but I have mates who follow Richmond they call him Fiora because outside he's seen as a bit soft and unable to put his skills on the field. He's not rated as highly outside as he is at the Saints, if Bont is the alpha male bull that straps the side on his back, Billings is more like the IT guy who keeps everything working around him.

Seb is still in a leadership role which makes it less likely that he'll walk, he's finally got to the point where he'll play finals after spending a career rebuilding. Last year he was injured in the preseason and during the year played heavily strapped. His skills looked like they always have but his possession count drop was the big stand out this year. He really stepped up in finals though and played like a leader and probably won a lot of respect back. If he gets a preseason in he could be one of our most improved.
 

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aussierulesrules

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If he doesn't fire I doubt anyone comes with bags of cash in a year when there are literally the cream of the competition up as free agents. Bont, Merrett, Kelly, Luke Parker etc are going to get people a lot more excited. To me he's like a Cam Guthrie (although he just had a great season) in that he's sort of lost in that middler class of players. He's not a champion and he's not even really playing any defined role. I honestly can't see him getting more from anyone than he's earned at the Saints. He's a beautifully skilled player and he's adaptable but I have mates who follow Richmond they call him Fiora because outside he's seen as a bit soft and unable to put his skills on the field. He's not rated as highly outside as he is at the Saints, if Bont is the alpha male bull that straps the side on his back, Billings is more like the IT guy who keeps everything working around him.

Seb is still in a leadership role which makes it less likely that he'll walk, he's finally got to the point where he'll play finals after spending a career rebuilding. Last year he was injured in the preseason and during the year played heavily strapped. His skills looked like they always have but his possession count drop was the big stand out this year. He really stepped up in finals though and played like a leader and probably won a lot of respect back. If he gets a preseason in he could be one of our most improved.
Agree with most of that but it won't matter how good the FA pool is this year if most of them are not "gettable", whereas if a team like Essendon lose one of the guys who is, and then have piles of cash lying around, as a result, they might have nothing much to lose but to throw it at a guy like Jack, if his club is offering him a hefty pay-cut.

Essendon, North and Hawthorn ought to have money to burn this year.
 

Mowman

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If he doesn't fire I doubt anyone comes with bags of cash in a year when there are literally the cream of the competition up as free agents. Bont, Merrett, Kelly, Luke Parker etc are going to get people a lot more excited. To me he's like a Cam Guthrie (although he just had a great season) in that he's sort of lost in that middler class of players. He's not a champion and he's not even really playing any defined role. I honestly can't see him getting more from anyone than he's earned at the Saints. He's a beautifully skilled player and he's adaptable but I have mates who follow Richmond they call him Fiora because outside he's seen as a bit soft and unable to put his skills on the field. He's not rated as highly outside as he is at the Saints, if Bont is the alpha male bull that straps the side on his back, Billings is more like the IT guy who keeps everything working around him.

Seb is still in a leadership role which makes it less likely that he'll walk, he's finally got to the point where he'll play finals after spending a career rebuilding. Last year he was injured in the preseason and during the year played heavily strapped. His skills looked like they always have but his possession count drop was the big stand out this year. He really stepped up in finals though and played like a leader and probably won a lot of respect back. If he gets a preseason in he could be one of our most improved.
Its the one thing i don't see Billings as soft yes outside but over the time in his better games he puts his body on the line and over the ball
I just dont think he believes or backs himself to be as good as he could be
And i have been a big fan over the years but I dont think he is in our top 12 players
 
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Mowman

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Agree with most of that but it won't matter how good the FA pool is this year if most of them are not "gettable", whereas if a team like Essendon lose one of the guys who is, and then have piles of cash lying around, as a result, they might have nothing much to lose but to throw it at a guy like Jack, if his club is offering him a hefty pay-cut.

Essendon, North and Hawthorn ought to have money to burn this year.
I think Merrett - Kelly - Parker are good chance to get and based on the last 2 years I would have all 3 before Jack
hoping Jack has a blinder this year
 

aussierulesrules

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Its the one thing i don't see Billings as soft yes outside but over the time in his better games he puts his body on the line and over the ball
I just dont think he believes or backs himself to be as good as he could be
And i have been a big fun over the years but I dont think he is in our top 12 players
His biggest problem is that he hears footsteps and panics under pressure far, far too often.

Let's hope he finally puts it all together this year.

He obviously trains impeccably well and sets a good example and all that, so it would be good to see him finally reach his full potential. As much for him as us.
 

gringo2011

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Agree with most of that but it won't matter how good the FA pool is this year if most of them are not "gettable", whereas if a team like Essendon lose one of the guys who is, and then have piles of cash lying around, as a result, they might have nothing much to lose but to throw it at a guy like Jack, if his club is offering him a hefty pay-cut.

Essendon, North and Hawthorn ought to have money to burn this year.


Players rarely go to bottom clubs and you would have to be offering a lot less to get him to walk from what we are building.
 

aussierulesrules

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Players rarely go to bottom clubs and you would have to be offering a lot less to get him to walk from what we are building.
Not saying I think he'll go, but I agree with Mow in that he's prolly only worth about $550K PA on his recent seasons form (especially if we reckon we've been overpaying him), whereas a club with cap space to burn- who like you say are a bottom club who has little chance of attracting the really big fish (Bont, Kelly, Cripps, etc)- might have nothing to lose but to offer him anything up to say $750K PA, over more years than we're offering him, so he'd certainly have something to think about.

Might forego up to a million bucks over say 5 years if he elects to stay.
 

gringo2011

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Its the one thing i don't see Billings as soft yes outside but over the time in his better games he puts his body on the line and over the ball
I just dont think he believes or backs himself to be as good as he could be
And i have been a big fan over the years but I dont think he is in our top 12 players

Neither was Fiora really but once people see you as soft there's nothing you can do about it. He looks flaky in front of goal and you can see his brain playing tricks on his confidence.
 

BrutThough

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His biggest problem is that he hears footsteps and panics under pressure far, far too often.

Let's hope he finally puts it all together this year.

He obviously trains impeccably well and sets a good example and all that, so it would be good to see him finally reach his full potential. As much for him as us.
Disagree with that completely.

I'd say he performs better under pressure than when there is no pressure. When the pressure is on, he tends to get out of his own head and acts on instinct while when there is no pressure, he is someone who will overthink it. He tends to be one of our players who will step up when the game is on the line and regularly is someone who will hold onto big marks when an opposition player is flying towards him.
 

aussierulesrules

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Neither was Fiora really but once people see you as soft there's nothing you can do about it. He looks flaky in front of goal and you can see his brain playing tricks on his confidence.
I'm not sure he's necessarily "soft", because there are plenty of times he puts his body on the line, but the problem is the number of times he fumbles under little pressure, when you can tell that he thinks he's under more pressure than he actually is.

If he thinks he's about to get tackled or bumped, you'd want to have your money on him fumbling the ball.

Someone with his level of ball-handling ability ought not be fumbling anywhere near as much as he does.
 

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gringo2011

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I'm not sure he's necessarily "soft", because there are plenty of times he puts his body on the line, but the problem is the number of times he fumbles under little pressure, when you can tell that he thinks he's under more pressure than he actually is.

If he thinks he's about to get tackled or bumped, you'd want to have your money on him fumbling the ball.

Someone with his level of ball-handling ability ought not be fumbling anywhere near as much as he does.

My mental image of him isn't one of being fumbly. He seems to go missing at times and I have this image of him in front of goal 30 meters out and butchering an easy set shot. You can see the cogs turning in his head. When he kicks before he has time to think he seems better. He's not a guy who bee lines the ball but he'll take a hit when he has to.
 

aussierulesrules

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My mental image of him isn't one of being fumbly. He seems to go missing at times and I have this image of him in front of goal 30 meters out and butchering an easy set shot. You can see the cogs turning in his head. When he kicks before he has time to think he seems better. He's not a guy who bee lines the ball but he'll take a hit when he has to.
I've seen it far too often for my liking and have mentioned it before and so have others here.

A video package of his fumbling would not make for pretty viewing.
 

Winmar2Lockett

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I'm not sure he's necessarily "soft", because there are plenty of times he puts his body on the line, but the problem is the number of times he fumbles under little pressure, when you can tell that he thinks he's under more pressure than he actually is.

If he thinks he's about to get tackled or bumped, you'd want to have your money on him fumbling the ball.

Someone with his level of ball-handling ability ought not be fumbling anywhere near as much as he does.
I reckon the 'he hears footsteps' rubbish is horribly unfair.

His first half of 2020 was excellent... then his form dropped away dramatically (which is when all the fumbling became very noticeable). Whether it was being in the hub or simply the case of a player being out of form I don't know.

JB is as hard as anyone out on the ground when the pill is in dispute and one of our best tacklers. Unfortunately there's always going to be supporters who call him soft thanks to a few times he took a short step early in his career.
 

Mowman

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I'm not sure he's necessarily "soft", because there are plenty of times he puts his body on the line, but the problem is the number of times he fumbles under little pressure, when you can tell that he thinks he's under more pressure than he actually is.

If he thinks he's about to get tackled or bumped, you'd want to have your money on him fumbling the ball.

Someone with his level of ball-handling ability ought not be fumbling anywhere near as much as he does.
Confidence and believe
For someone with skills he just needs more arrogance and swagger
Just don’t think it’s in his DNA
 

Armoooo

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With our recent additions to the midfield, I am hopeful that a return to his best position as a high half-forward will give give some stability. However, the only way that he is going to improve is if he sorts out his kicking jitters.

It is one thing to have poor accuracy, but it's like he completely forgets how to kick a footy when lining up for goal at times. Gresham has the same issue and it is what is keeping them both from being A-Graders IMO. There is no reason why they both couldn't be 40 goal a year players if they would kick more of their gettable set shots.

This is such an important year for Billings, he has always been the icing on the cake type player, now that we have the core for him to compliment, let's see what he is capable of.

I believe he is in our top 5 most talented players and I really hope we get to see that on the field and not just the training track.
 

aussierulesrules

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I reckon the 'he hears footsteps' rubbish is horribly unfair.

His first half of 2020 was excellent... then his form dropped away dramatically (which is when all the fumbling became very noticeable). Whether it was being in the hub or simply the case of a player being out of form I don't know.

JB is as hard as anyone out on the ground when the pill is in dispute and one of our best tacklers. Unfortunately there's always going to be supporters who call him soft thanks to a few times he took a short step early in his career.
My comment was based as much on what I saw him do REPEATEDLY last season as anything and really had nothing at all to do with his early career stuff.
 

aussierulesrules

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Confidence and believe
For someone with skills he just needs more arrogance and swagger
Just don’t think it’s in his DNA
Some folks getting triggered by the mere suggestion that Jack might be "soft", or hear footsteps, or fumble when there's someone near him way too often, but it's not like this is some sort of secret.

I mean wasn't it reported a year or two ago that Jack had been having some sort of martial arts training outside the club, to get him more used to the physicality you face in AFL footy?

In other words, he was basically scared of physical contact, and had to get outside help to improve that side of his game (to his credit) and while I agree that he's definitely made significant progress in that area, I just have no doubt that he's not all the way there yet.

Hoping he will be by this year though, as it's clearly something that he and the club identified as an issue and that he has gone above and beyond to remedy (to his credit).
 

#gosaintas

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I reckon the 'he hears footsteps' rubbish is horribly unfair.

His first half of 2020 was excellent... then his form dropped away dramatically (which is when all the fumbling became very noticeable). Whether it was being in the hub or simply the case of a player being out of form I don't know.

JB is as hard as anyone out on the ground when the pill is in dispute and one of our best tacklers. Unfortunately there's always going to be supporters who call him soft thanks to a few times he took a short step early in his career.
He seemed to lose a yard of pace in the 2nd half of the season. Injured or just dropped his head? Who knows...
 

gringo2011

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I reckon the 'he hears footsteps' rubbish is horribly unfair.

His first half of 2020 was excellent... then his form dropped away dramatically (which is when all the fumbling became very noticeable). Whether it was being in the hub or simply the case of a player being out of form I don't know.

JB is as hard as anyone out on the ground when the pill is in dispute and one of our best tacklers. Unfortunately there's always going to be supporters who call him soft thanks to a few times he took a short step early in his career.
Sometimes it's skinny build that gets them labelled. Fiora I saw get absolutely smashed plenty of times but people remembered the few times he pulled out of getting destroyed by bigger bodies. Dal used to cop it too and he was a runty build like Billings. Realistically guys with stick figure builds playing against 100 kg power athletes is probably the antithesis to soft.
 

gringo2011

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My comment was based as much on what I saw him do REPEATEDLY last season as anything and really had nothing at all to do with his early career stuff.

I can't remember seeing it but then I can't say I overly noticed him after the first quarter of the season when he was flying toward AA standard then dropped away. His first part of the season looked his best yet. I think he was playing pure wing opposite Hill and he looked like what we hoped Hill would be. We seemed to move him around from there and he looked a lot less effective.
 

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