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List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
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hayes said:
We don’t need depth, we need A graders that will make some of the guys in the team now depth players.
Click to expand...
Don’t disagree one bit. But where do we get them from? We’ll add a top 10 draft pick this year. Of the free agents the only three A graders are Merrett, Kelly and Cripps and they are all restricted. No chance of getting any of them anyway.
Hopefully we’ll add Bing in the next 18 months.
Gresh, Marshall and Paton should come back fully fit for next year.
 
gringo2011 said:
Really interesting with Geelong how a few good operators really straightened them up. They were nearly broke, down the ladder, had the hand baggers title, seemed away from the action where no-one wanted to go and generally a small regional nothing team.

Costa, Cook, wells etc all seemed to be just the right mix of excellent operators in exactly the right areas. As clumsy and messy as GT and Butterss were they were like a second rate version of the Geelong model. Ex players with passion and an ability to sell the dream. Saw the list build as the priority and stopped trying to take short cuts after a brutal lesson and realised that you couldn't carry people who didn't care. Post GT and John Beverage we fell off a cliff in recruiting and vision. Lyon rode GT's horse until it died but no-one at the club was looking ahead and had only one goal which was win one now.

The greatest mistake we then made was to not go out and identify that as an issue and instead employed professionals with no interest in a long term goal. They were wage earners who went home after doing the basics of their job title and were happy to be employed in footy and kept making promises to keep employed instead of treading on feet and demanding excellence.

Lethlean isn't a stupid person. I really hope he can find the energy and vision and work out logical steps to achieve excellence. Another 10 years of bad administration will be hard to recover from. We have done some good stuff with the list but are about half way through and we really don't know what our current admin can do. It's pretty nerve recking but hopefully this time we have the right people in.
Click to expand...
Lyon ride GT’s horse till it died???
I’d argue GT rode off Watsons coaching failure then Butters money then decided HE was no longer caretaker coach till someone more credentialed came along ....that he was the man better than most AFL coaches!!
I’ve heard directly from one of his own assistant coaches tell me “he fcked your club”. If megalomania is a good business model he’s your man. Lyon did go for broke no doubt and imo failed to get the youth balance with a “win now” culture right but I’d argue he instilled some genuine discipline into the place that went beyond BBQs at GT’s...
19 straight season was the only time I’ve been to footy expecting to win and hearing opposition supporters actually scared of playing us.
 
The_Snake26 said:
Just read the AFL on the outer article. Couple in there that i reckon could add to our 22 or depth.
McKenzie held down FB pretty well for Port last year and seems to match up ok on the bigger forwards. Think the Frawley experiment is over. Would free up Dougs to play CHB.
Fiorini could be handy midfield depth.
Not a big fan of Wallis but he plays the small forward roll pretty well. Upgrade on Kent
Moneyball picks to add depth. We need to cut some of the deadwood from our list. McKernan, Frawley, Carlisle, Alabakis, Kent, McKenzie, Hannebery
Robbo will come off the list too.

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ON THE OUTER: Why can't he get a game for your club?

Who is surprisingly out of favour with the coach at your club? Check it out
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Click to expand...
McKenzie is too undersized, much like what we have.

I actually don't mind the idea if Mason Cox if Ryder were to retire.

I think he'd be well suited to the ruck forward role giving Marshall and King some help instead of playing the main man up forward.
 

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The_Snake26 said:
Yeah i know. I’d find a middle ground and pay him out. Wasn’t his contract front loaded anyway?
Click to expand...
The thing is, if our salary cap was already tight this year we can't just put all his wages on it and then retire him. His wages will be on the books next year, the only option is to keep him on the list and hope he can contribute. Then he's gone at the end of 2022.

I know everyone wants the comfort of having him off the list but I just don't see how it makes sense.
 
bird_man said:
McKenzie is too undersized, much like what we have.

I actually don't mind the idea if Mason Cox if Ryder were to retire.

I think he'd be well suited to the ruck forward role giving Marshall and King some help instead of playing the main man up forward.
Click to expand...
Is Mason Cox on contract for next year? He is on decent money. No chance if that's the case. He would be good ruck depth on lower wages.
 
KingsRansom said:
The company I work for and some of Bassett and his crew at seek joined together a while ago yo revamp the labour hire app "sidewinder". Having worked along side him, he's an absolute business whiz.
Big fan of Lethlean, hes a maverick operator, the best businesses have people like that as an integral part. It sets them apart from the rest.
Finnis is a real down to earth operator, its like ying and yang with Lethlean. It's an abnormally perfect working alliance
Click to expand...

I think Lethlean is a real get shit done guy who does what ever he wants which means it will either end in glory or disaster. He's the type who won't wait for slow development and might miss holding good players in a churn to get us moving faster.

If we draft and trade well at the same time it's all good but if he can't get that right it will end up like the Pelican rebuild. Libba is going to have to be at the top of his game and draft like a god. Guys like Petracca took 5 to 6 years to be a champion player, if you lose patience too quickly you can easily mss them.

That's where good list management advice is needed. Hopefully we have some people around to temper him. Finnis is a good operator but super slow and disinterested in the on field stuff. He needs some one who can take the football forward while he ****s around in the backroom. It could be a very good combination if everyone works together rather than going in all directions.
 
gringo2011 said:
Really interesting with Geelong how a few good operators really straightened them up. They were nearly broke, down the ladder, had the hand baggers title, seemed away from the action where no-one wanted to go and generally a small regional nothing team.

Costa, Cook, wells etc all seemed to be just the right mix of excellent operators in exactly the right areas. As clumsy and messy as GT and Butterss were they were like a second rate version of the Geelong model. Ex players with passion and an ability to sell the dream. Saw the list build as the priority and stopped trying to take short cuts after a brutal lesson and realised that you couldn't carry people who didn't care. Post GT and John Beverage we fell off a cliff in recruiting and vision. Lyon rode GT's horse until it died but no-one at the club was looking ahead and had only one goal which was win one now.

The greatest mistake we then made was to not go out and identify that as an issue and instead employed professionals with no interest in a long term goal. They were wage earners who went home after doing the basics of their job title and were happy to be employed in footy and kept making promises to keep employed instead of treading on feet and demanding excellence.

Lethlean isn't a stupid person. I really hope he can find the energy and vision and work out logical steps to achieve excellence. Another 10 years of bad administration will be hard to recover from. We have done some good stuff with the list but are about half way through and we really don't know what our current admin can do. It's pretty nerve recking but hopefully this time we have the right people in.
Click to expand...
I really like your thinking.
I am working on another thread about club support that I will eventually upload.
Pointless to do so when people have so much other stuff to discuss.
So I will probably leave it till post season, trade and draft.
But one of the issues I have been grappling with is the issue of sustainable success in the era of equalisation.
I might run some ideas past you when we get nearer the time I’m ready to upload.
 
gringo2011 said:
I think Lethlean is a real get sh*t done guy who does what ever he wants which means it will either end in glory or disaster. He's the type who won't wait for slow development and might miss holding good players in a churn to get us moving faster.

If we draft and trade well at the same time it's all good but if he can't get that right it will end up like the Pelican rebuild. Libba is going to have to be at the top of his game and draft like a god. Guys like Petracca took 5 to 6 years to be a champion player, if you lose patience too quickly you can easily mss them.

That's where good list management advice is needed. Hopefully we have some people around to temper him. Finnis is a good operator but super slow and disinterested in the on field stuff. He needs some one who can take the football forward while he fu**s around in the backroom. It could be a very good combination if everyone works together rather than going in all directions.
Click to expand...
Don’t stress about a draft pick needing to be a star imminently.
The current build means if we take a top 5 mid this year. As long as he is consistent. He can break out right around the time King should be the star forward in this league. We will have Steele and/or crouch for 3-5 easy. Plenty of coverage to enable a kid to find his feet.
 
hayes said:
We don’t need depth, we need A graders that will make some of the guys in the team now depth players.
Click to expand...


We need both. The ones we got are shit and we need to replace them as well as finding top end talent. It's a big year for Libba after having nothing to do for a couple of years.
 
Teflon said:
Lyon ride GT’s horse till it died???
I’d argue GT rode off Watsons coaching failure then Butters money then decided HE was no longer caretaker coach till someone more credentialed came along ....that he was the man better than most AFL coaches!!
I’ve heard directly from one of his own assistant coaches tell me “he fcked your club”. If megalomania is a good business model he’s your man. Lyon did go for broke no doubt and imo failed to get the youth balance with a “win now” culture right but I’d argue he instilled some genuine discipline into the place that went beyond BBQs at GT’s...
19 straight season was the only time I’ve been to footy expecting to win and hearing opposition supporters actually scared of playing us.
Click to expand...


Lyon took us into the professional era but GT was on the cusp of the times when culture and a gun list could bring home flags. He was responsible for the club when we built the best list in the AFL for a time IMO. Lyon inherited his legacy. Yes he inherited from Watson being shit but Watson was a turkey that got us guys like Beetham, Begley, Walton, Mc Laren and Davis. Monkey and Plapp as mature types. Watson's legacy was making us so shit that we dropped to the bottom but he butchered drafting and trades like Trout.

He got shit done at least and he got attacked in the media for having the balls to go a different path. He wasn't perfect but who is. We'd kill to be on the same trajectory now.
 
lewdogs said:
The thing is, if our salary cap was already tight this year we can't just put all his wages on it and then retire him. His wages will be on the books next year, the only option is to keep him on the list and hope he can contribute. Then he's gone at the end of 2022.

I know everyone wants the comfort of having him off the list but I just don't see how it makes sense.
Click to expand...


Only makes sense if he's happy to take a settlement of say 50% of his contract or something. Pay out the entirety in this years cap and have $600k more to spend next year. Put it into a FA that can get on the park or hold it until we can.
 
gringo2011 said:
Lyon took us into the professional era but GT was on the cusp of the times when culture and a gun list could bring home flags. He was responsible for the club when we built the best list in the AFL for a time IMO. Lyon inherited his legacy. Yes he inherited from Watson being sh*t but Watson was a turkey that got us guys like Beetham, Begley, Walton, Mc Laren and Davis. Monkey and Plapp as mature types. Watson's legacy was making us so sh*t that we dropped to the bottom but he butchered drafting and trades like Trout.

He got sh*t done at least and he got attacked in the media for having the balls to go a different path. He wasn't perfect but who is. We'd kill to be on the same trajectory now.
Click to expand...
Yeah it was that era that identified and implemented culture change.
A friend of mine worked in that at the club so it's my only itk info. Some of the stories o_O
 

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Mabior Chol has apparently been confirmed as an Unrestricted Free Agent.

Go hard Saints, go hard.

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WhiskySaint said:
In regards to why we have fallen into a 10 year hole of poor performance.
There is a business author some will be aware of named Jim Collins (built to last, great by choice, ect.) who takes two companies, one successful and one not and compares their behaviours to see why one was successful.

I think in this model, Geelong and St Kilda are a great comparison.
To me (and others will know both clubs better then me) St Kilda has failed to be consistently excellent in the key areas of strategy, recruiting, development and administration. I feel (like Jim uncovers) if you want to be great you need to be consistent over an extended period of time and we will keep paying for shortcuts taken from 10 years ago.
Geelong seem to have been consistent with the key areas (look at how we both managed cap during our peak times) and thus they haven’t fallen off the cliff.
No Ross isn’t THE reason we suck today, but he is part of the fabric that has added to our woes. At least in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Geelong under the threat of bankruptcy were not forced into docklands and then had a 200m stadium built for them by the state government where they get 90c for every dollar that goes through it.

I get that Geelong have done well but geeze it'd be nice to get that kind of leg up.

Theyre the perfect case study of how a good stadium deal and AFL/Government intervention will pay off over the long term.

We seem to be trying to go down the Geelong model of things but sadly we won't be getting a stadium that seats 35k where we get 90c in the dollar.
 
StCicatriz said:
Geelong under the threat of bankruptcy were not forced into docklands and then had a 200m stadium built for them by the state government where they get 90c for every dollar that goes through it.

I get that Geelong have done well but geeze it'd be nice to get that kind of leg up.

Theyre the perfect case study of how a good stadium deal and AFL/Government intervention will pay off over the long term.

We seem to be trying to go down the Geelong model of things but sadly we won't be getting a stadium that seats 35k where we get 90c in the dollar.
Click to expand...


They'd also already done a mountain of work to make themselves a powerhouse club from a basket case. It's amazing how much luck is created through hard work. We were screwed into disabling stadium deals, made poor choices like moving to Seaford and trading out players etc.

Geelong have been able to remain in contention since before we played them in the 2009 GF and are good enough to win another one this year. They managed to bring in Cameron after playing in a GF last year. We should be modelling on these clubs not whinging about what they get given. People take them seriously because they make good choices.

I used to blame the umpires, the AFL, the gods, the system, the man what ever I could point a finger at but seriously sometimes you just need to look in the mirror and wonder if it's something we're doing wrong that is the cause of our misfortune.
 
StCicatriz said:
Geelong under the threat of bankruptcy were not forced into docklands and then had a 200m stadium built for them by the state government where they get 90c for every dollar that goes through it.

I get that Geelong have done well but geeze it'd be nice to get that kind of leg up.

Theyre the perfect case study of how a good stadium deal and AFL/Government intervention will pay off over the long term.

We seem to be trying to go down the Geelong model of things but sadly we won't be getting a stadium that seats 35k where we get 90c in the dollar.
Click to expand...

Having a state premier (Bracks) and a number of high ranking officials in successive state govts certainly helped.

They had the right people in charge & we had incompetents like Nettlefold, Fraser & Butterrs.


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Winmar2Lockett said:
Having a state premier (Bracks) and a number of high ranking officials in successive state govts certainly helped.

They had the right people in charge & we had incompetents like Nettlefold, Fraser & Butterrs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


Also there was a lot of industry closing in Geelong like Ford and they were worried about the whole town falling into a state of decline. They were moving government departments and offering regional development funds to companies to set up there. Cotton On has helped reinvigorate their local economy and a few projects to invest money into the city were thought up.

Footy is about the only thing that every one there agrees on so they got the bulk of the cash and that was sent through local businesses and will continue as a place of employment. A lot was right time right place but you have to sell the vision. They are an elite operation.

We still got a shit load of money for Moorabin but ours isn't an income generator like theirs is and we are still paying for those morons sending us to Seaford.
 
Riccardi’s kicked 7.3 in the GWS reserves, and the games not over yet either. Can play both ends of the field. Would like him, however I imagine it would be hard, other clubs would definitely be interested as well.
 

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Minga said:
Riccardi’s kicked 7.3 in the GWS reserves, and the games not over yet either. Can play both ends of the field. Would like him, however I imagine it would be hard, other clubs would definitely be interested as well.
Click to expand...
He'd prefer somewhere that are desperate for a key forward I reckon e.g. Collingwood or North

I thought he looked ok early as a defender but was dropped 3 weeks later.
 
Winmar2Lockett said:
Having a state premier (Bracks) and a number of high ranking officials in successive state govts certainly helped.

They had the right people in charge & we had incompetents like Nettlefold, Fraser & Butterrs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Geelong had more than Bracks as a supporter. Here is a list senior Victorian State politicians who were fanatical Geelong supporters at the time they organised the funding and planning approvals to rebuild Kardinal Park.

Steve Bracks - ALP Premier.

Rob Hulls - ALP Deputy Premier, Planning Minister and Attorney General.

Robert Doyle - Lib Opposition Leader

Ted Baillieu - Lib Shadow Planning Minister, Opposition Leader, then Premier.

Denis Napthine - Lib Opposition Leader, Shadow Treasurer, Treasurer, then Premier.

Jacinta Allan - ALP Minister for various portfolios.

At one point the Premier, Deputy Premier, Opposition Leader, Treasurer and Shadow Treasurer were all Geelong supporters (between 1999-2003).

Fair dinkum, they were kissed on the d**k when you also remember all of the father and sons that fell into their lap on the cheap. They were blessed.
 
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