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List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
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stavro#4 said:
You are right. But that also strengthens the point I’m making about the stupidity of saying if we had drafted A over. B or C instead of D how we would be successful now.

Chances are that if we take a bont over Billings we aren’t in the McCartin Petracca convo or in the king convo etc etc.

It’s why you can only look forward.
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Yep, it’s a gigantic waste of time worrying, wallowing in misery or knashing your teeth about something you’re not able to change.
 
gringo2011 said:
Not much evidence that you need good forwards. JRoo and smalls, Boyd and smalls, Collingwood, Geelong and Sydney didn't have a superstar forward when they they won. Hawks won without Buddy, Swans didn't with him. We didn't with Rooey etc. Lynch helped the Tigers but hardly made the difference either.

You need some stars regardless. Having Petracca would have been amazing and adding stars never goes astray.
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Let’s pretend that Jack Riewoldt, Travis Cloke weren’t superstar forwards at the time their clubs won a flag or that in 2011 final series Tom Hawkins didn’t have his big breakthrough and has that form ever since.

Sydney and the bulldogs are the exceptions of which I said you have to be very very lucky.

Also, yes the Hawks won without buddy. Roughead Breust Gunston and Rioli I think all bagged all Australian jumpers in the 2 grand finals they won when he left.
 
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stavro#4 said:
All I’ve heard and I mentioned this the other week to a few in a PM is that the confidence of King being a saint is really high from those at the club. Like - happy to share with stkilda people and not just internally confident type of high.

I think Gold Coast are putting everything in the “make finals and he’ll stay” basket and they are a way off that this year.

I do truly believe that if Ben says to the Suns that he is going home and coming to us regardless of anything. That there is a chance we could land him this year.
Click to expand...
They could have a very good team next year if they were able to get most of them out on the park and in good form.
 
stavro#4 said:
Let’s pretend that Jack Riewoldt, Travis Cloke weren’t superstar forwards at the time their clubs won a flag or that in 2011 final series Tom Hawkins didn’t have his big breakthrough and has that form ever since.

Sydney and the bulldogs are the exceptions of which I said you have to be very very lucky.
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Boyd was arguably best in the dogs grand final, so while not a superstar was vital in them winning it.
 

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stavro#4 said:
Let’s pretend that Jack Riewoldt, Travis Cloke weren’t superstar forwards at the time their clubs won a flag or that in 2011 final series Tom Hawkins didn’t have his big breakthrough and has that form ever since.

Sydney and the bulldogs are the exceptions of which I said you have to be very very lucky.

Also, yes the Hawks won without buddy. Roughead Breust Gunston and Rioli I think all bagged all Australian jumpers in the 2 grand finals they won when he left.
Click to expand...


Hawkins came good in 2012, he was an ordinary player until then. Cloke was okay but he was a frustration to most Pies fans as well. Bruest and Rioli aren't tall forwards and Gunston is more a third tall but did have a great finals campaign.
 
aussierulesrules said:
Yep, it’s a gigantic waste of time worrying, wallowing in misery or knashing your teeth about something you’re not able to change.
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Not if you learn from it. Mistakes are not a problem but not improving the causes of them is.
 
gringo2011 said:
Hawkins came good in 2012, he was an ordinary player until then. Cloke was okay but he was a frustration to most Pies fans as well. Bruest and Rioli aren't tall forwards and Gunston is more a third tall but did have a great finals campaign.
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Cloke was better then okay. His frustration was his inconsistency infront of goal. He was still a bonafide star up forward.

Hawkins as mentioned had a huge finals campaign in 2011 and literally kept that level of performance up since.

The point of hawthorn was that 4 forwards received an all Australian jumper in the 2 flags they won post buddy. Roughead as the primary tall kicked 75 and 50 goals in those 2 years.
 
gringo2011 said:
Hawkins came good in 2012, he was an ordinary player until then. Cloke was okay but he was a frustration to most Pies fans as well. Bruest and Rioli aren't tall forwards and Gunston is more a third tall but did have a great finals campaign.
Click to expand...
Almost correct. It was the qualifying final in 2011 against Hawthorn where he stamped his authority on the game and announced himself. After that he was brilliant. Until then he had been average to ordinary.

I remember when he debuted there was so much hype on him. For a few years at least I enjoyed him being a spud who didn’t live up to expectations..... then he arrived.
 
stavro#4 said:
They could.

Is that too late? Players generally have their mind made up before a season ends about the future.
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It ain’t over til The Fat Coachy Sings 😉

e3WkFAW.jpg
 
gringo2011 said:
I'd say all of them look amazing on potential but there are a million stories of potential that never got actualised. North had a similar bad luck with injuries and wasn't allowed as an excuse.
Click to expand...

Only nuffies ignore injury ravaged sides, especially ones with poor depth... my in-laws are all Norf supporters and I raised their injury issues more than they did.
 

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sherrif said:
Back in reality Cerra averages 21.6 possessions this year and uses the ball brilliantly. Yep keep Hill and his contract fine .Im sure it won't stop you bringing in new recruits at all.
Click to expand...

You keep going on about Hill.
It appears you want him back more than he wants to go. He’s not going anywhere.
 
sherrif said:
On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
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Brad Hill is turning 28 this season and Cerra will be 22 and has already finished in the top 5 in our best and fairest. There would be no way we'd be giving up our first rounder in a trade for a player who is struggling in BradHill for a trade involving a player who is one of the most skilled mids in the afl under 23. I don;t think Freo would trade for anything more than Brad Hill and your first for Cerra and our second.
[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your time...but I can't see a role for you here presently, or in the foreseeable future.
 
El_Duderino said:
Almost correct. It was the qualifying final in 2011 against Hawthorn where he stamped his authority on the game and announced himself. After that he was brilliant. Until then he had been average to ordinary.

I remember when he debuted there was so much hype on him. For a few years at least I enjoyed him being a spud who didn’t live up to expectations..... then he arrived.
Click to expand...
Looking at Hawkins’ stats it was actually when he returned to the side in R17 of 2011 that he came good.

In his previous/first 9 games that season he kicked a paltry 5 goals and took 10 contested marks.

In the final/next 9 games (including a QF, PF, and GF) he kicked 22 goals and took 32 contested marks!

Prior to R17 of that season he averaged 1.2 contested marks per game- over his first 70 games- in the next/last 9 games of that season he averaged 3.5.

He took 5 in the prelim and in the grannie he took 7, kicked 3.3 and received the 3rd most votes for the Norm Smith medal. He was instrumental in that premiership.

(So in Hawkins first 70 games- until approx 23yo- he averaged 1.2 contested marks per game. Max in just 27 games and at just 20yo is averaging a tick under 1.8, and has already taken 4 in a game 3 times (including in a final). Tom did it just 3 times in his first 70 games, and didn’t take more than 4 in a game until that 71st game, in his 5th season, when he finally started to really come good).
 
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Kildonan said:
Why does everybody want to offload our better players?
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Because it's dawning on us that they may not be as good as we think, or wish them to be. Unfortunately this leads to delusion as well as confusion for us schmo's...which is a terrible way to be. We think our better players may be worth something to us trade and pick wise...but this ignores the fact that they're not much chop to begin with. Most are in the 2nd and 3rd round bargain bin range. Billings might get us something...but I think he's in Crouch territory or worse. Battle would get us a late 2nd...maybe. The truth is that many of our guys haven't done much to be of any real value to anything other than be slightly less s*ite than others on the team. It makes their form misleading ...unless of course you're a ring in...then you have coaches immunity to any type of form line, and can stink it up for as long as you like 🙄
 

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El_Duderino said:
Coffield is not a sh*t player though. He’s shown last year and throughout what he is actually capable of. Also until naughton got those six goals against Melbourne last year he wasn’t really highly rated either. Think people need to settle down on the whole we should’ve picked this player instead of that player.

Whatever picks we end up with in the draft - I hope they ALL go to midfielders. We need to get midfield depth. It is more important than any other part of the ground for us. Mids, mids, mids...
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Yep...mids that are capable, able to tackle, are highly skilled, fast, and have a good footy IQ. Please and thank you.
 
tomjoad said:
Yep...mids that are capable, able to tackle, are highly skilled, fast, and have a good footy IQ. Please and thank you.
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You do realise that those guys are super-rare and that every other club desperately wants them too don’t you!?

You’re basically describing pre-injuries Jaeger O’Meara there.

Those types tend to only come along every now and then and when they do you’re very likely to need pick 1 to get them.

About the last guy we drafted that fit that type description was Joel Smith.

Winmar probably the best fit of all, but he was better suited to the wing.

Actually Joey fit most of that description as well, but I don’t remember him much for his tackling.
 
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stavro#4 said:
All I’ve heard and I mentioned this the other week to a few in a PM is that the confidence of King being a saint is really high from those at the club. Like - happy to share with stkilda people and not just internally confident type of high.

I think Gold Coast are putting everything in the “make finals and he’ll stay” basket and they are a way off that this year.

I do truly believe that if Ben says to the Suns that he is going home and coming to us regardless of anything. That there is a chance we could land him this year.
Click to expand...
Trying to get him this year is the worst thing the club could possibly do IMO.
 
bird_man said:
Trying to get him this year is the worst thing the club could possibly do IMO.
Click to expand...
Yeah it would be ideal to add a “gun mid” from the pointy-end of the draft this year, and then add Bing at the end of next year.

Him and Max in the same forwardline could be ridiculously hard for other teams to contain (especially as Ben is fantastic on the lead, while Max is stronger in pack/contested marking, so they’d compliment each other extremely well), and that gives us potentially/hopefully years to build the rest of the team around them.

And a midfield of

Steele
Gresham
Crouch
Jones
Clark
Bytel
Ross
Byrnes
Sinclair
Hill
Billings (or 2021 high draft pick)
2021 high draft pick

could be a very good one by Ben’s first year, in 2023. Barring any more unforeseen, Stuv/Robbo like catastrophes.

That said, if Max reaches anywhere near his full potential, then him and say Marshall and Membrey/Battle ought to be more than enough up front, and we could then load up on the midfield and ruck, so if Ben extends his contract with them during the next year or so I won’t be crying myself to sleep over it.
 
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We want the likes of Bontempelli, Petracca, Cripps, Fyfe etc. in our team, well I believe coaches look at our stock with eyes wide open & stop being one dimensional.
A lot of our players in their draft year are listed in different positions to where they are playing their AFL careers, give them a chance back where they belong.
Now back to the opening paragraph, why not play Nick Coffield for the rest of the season in the midfield? He has the size, speed & is more than a capable footballer, played there as well as a junior.
Who knows what he would be like if given the chance.

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