Analysis 2021 trade thread

[BangyBangy]

Looks like Ceglar has both us and Dogs as options. If we want him longer contract is the easier carrot we can offer. We have a habit of giving it too, CEY for example. I'm not saying Fullarton doesn't have scope to improve - Ceglar would be ahead of him right now / next year.

Yeah I agree, but the CEY / Archie Smith scenario is one which I would prefer the club avoid in future. Maybe two years with a trigger for a third based on games played. If the others improve & go past him them he misses out.

 

[T Rick]

We did ask them to take a pay cut in 2020 and they did take a pay cut.

Thanks - Interesting because my recollection of what has been reported in the media differs - does this mean the cuts have to be paid back over future years?

 

[Dalions]

Thanks - Interesting because my recollection of what has been reported in the media differs - does this mean the cuts have to be paid back over future years?

Not the 2020 year.
The whole competition and players from all clubs took a pay cut in 2020. Which will not have to be paid back to the players.
2021 it was the clubs choice as to how they managed the cap with most clubs players taking a small cut. The lions decided not to do this.
But I do believe for the players contracted past this year the pay cut they took this year will need to be paid back during their contract term.

 

[Pns_blister]

Looks like there is lots of rucks on the move again this year, which kind of dilutes their worth for the sellers. Definitely a buyer's market.

 

[lioninthesand]

If Ceglar and Oscar are having good seasons coinciding with Hipwood's return, that'll be a good problem to have in my view. We were at the other end of that scale this year and struggled badly with no second and third tall cover.

That being said, Ceglar would be too expensive trade wise compared to Fort. This will be a challenge to get done.

It would good, for sure. Just means that one of the big 5 are injured or in the ressies for it to work - so your ideal scenario is one where someone who should be playing, isn't.

And the issue with Cegler is, you would need to commit to the 2 ruck model, or the resting ruck forward model - Fagan has shown time and time again he likes conistancy.

As long as Hippy, Joe and McStay are in the same forward line - we are commited to the resting forward/ruck model IMO.

Bringing in Fort for free still works because him being in the ressies is ok on 120k a year, Cegler or Big O in the ressies, not so much.

 

[briztoon]

It would good, for sure. Just means that one of the big 5 are injured or in the ressies for it to work - so your ideal scenario is one where someone who should be playing, isn't.

And the issue with Cegler is, you would need to commit to the 2 ruck model, or the resting ruck forward model - Fagan has shown time and time again he likes conistancy.

As long as Hippy, Joe and McStay are in the same forward line - we are commited to the resting forward/ruck model IMO.

Bringing in Fort for free still works because him being in the ressies is ok on 120k a year, Cegler or Big O in the ressies, not so much.

Fort is contracted, so won’t be “free”, just cheaper.

 

[Shaq attack]

Casboult is the one I am hoping we pickup. Of all the players we are reportedly interested in, he is the most dangerous player of the lot. He is no world beater but can is a great overhead mark and serviceable as a backup ruck. Our most pressing need is for a competent forward who can ruck rather than a primary ruck who rests forward.

 

[blueiris]

Suns now have they’re 2nd round pick and a Future 2nd from Collingwood would we trade our future first round and 3rd round picks to the Suns for both giving Us 3 2nd round picks next year and enough points for Ashcroft and Fletcher

 

[lion64]

I'm going to swim against the tide here, Mason Cox

18

Mason Cox

Age

35

Ht

211cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

, Full Forward/Ruck, Joey playing Centre Half Forward could be lethal!

On SM-G781B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[briztoon]

Suns now have they’re 2nd round pick and a Future 2nd from Collingwood would we trade our future first round and 3rd round picks to the Suns for both giving Us 3 2nd round picks next year and enough points for Ashcroft and Fletcher

Suns just traded away their second round pick pick in that trade.

They have pick 19, but if you want it, you also have to take on Darcy Macpherson in a salary dump trade.

 

[blueiris]

Suns just traded away their second round pick pick in that trade.

They have pick 19, but if you want it, you also have to take on Darcy Macpherson in a salary dump trade.

No they still have their future 2nd which is what I’m looking at

 

[briztoon]

No they still have their future 2nd which is what I’m looking at

They traded away their second round pick this year. You misread my post, somehow.

 

[blueiris]

They traded away their second round pick this year. You misread my post, somehow.

I wasn’t talking about this years 2nd round pick

 

[briztoon]

I wasn’t talking about this years 2nd round pick

Your first post I quoted,


“Suns now have their 2nd round pick and a Future 2nd from Collingwood, would we trade our future first round and 3rd round picks to the Suns for both”

So you said would we trade our future first (+ a 3rd round pick) round pick for the Suns current and future second round picks.

And I said, “the Suns just traded away their second round pick” in this year’s draft.

 

[Section 5]

Jonathon Ceglar

15

Jonathon Ceglar

Age

35

Ht

204cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.2

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

6.2

4star

CL

2.2

4star

HO

21.0

5star

D

10.7

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

5.7

3star

CL

3.8

5star

HO

22.3

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

4.2

2star

HB

6.4

4star

CL

2.6

5star

HO

13.4

5star

: 101 games- 31years old in February - 204 cm - 102 kg

Games played going backwards from 2021: 12, 13, 15, 11, 19, 14, 15, 2

Basic Average Game Stats from last two years
2021: Games 12 - Disposals 15 - Marks 4.4 - H/O 20.9 - Clearances 4 - Goals 0.2 - Tackles 2.2 - TOG 74.5%
2020: Games 13 - Disposals 10.5 - Marks 2.2 - H/O 21 - Clearances 3 _ Goals 0.1 - Tackles 2.5 - TOG 73.8%

When i looked at Ceglar's career you could argue 2021 was his best year stats wise
Pretty much the same year in year out when he is on the park
The thing is he is nothing special but not bad either

A 2 year contract would be fine.
Is he better than others mentioned, maybe yes as a ruck.

On the positive side another ruck available should we be able to afford him

 

[blueiris]

Your first post I quoted,


“Suns now have their 2nd round pick and a Future 2nd from Collingwood, would we trade our future first round and 3rd round picks to the Suns for both”

So you said would we trade our future first (+ a 3rd round pick) round pick for the Suns current and future second round picks.

And I said, “the Suns just traded away their second round pick” in this year’s draft.

Oh you misunderstood my post I meant trading our future 1st and 3rd round picks for both of their future 2nds

 

[briztoon]

Oh you misunderstood my post I meant trading our future 1st and 3rd round picks for both of their future 2nds

My bad.

But, no. I wouldn’t do that trade.

 

[lioninthesand]

Fort is contracted, so won’t be “free”, just cheaper.

Yeah I'm talking about cap space and picks, still not free - but close to. Free as it comes in footy terms.

 

[Dalions]

Yeah I'm talking about cap space and picks, still not free - but close to. Free as it comes in footy terms.

Free as Jarryd Lyons?

 

[davemc_lions]

thing with Ceglar he can hold his own as a 1st ruck
I do think Oscar was injured most of this year. Although just some games double teamed and lacked support.
Be nice if our second ruck was not a bit player.
Watching the grand final Gawn/Jackson was a great 2 punch duo
I think Martin was ok not fantastic.. English in the ruck is not great yet although he is good around the ground.

Although if you are Ceglar you go to the Dogs take Stefs place.
You be playing next 2-3 years.
Come here your warming the seat for Hippy.. Unless you knock off Big O as #1 ruck

 

[martinson]

thing with Ceglar he can hold his own as a 1st ruck
I do think Oscar was injured most of this year. Although just some games double teamed and lacked support.
Be nice if our second ruck was not a bit player.
Watching the grand final Gawn/Jackson was a great 2 punch duo
I think Martin was ok not fantastic.. English in the ruck is not great yet although he is good around the ground.

Although if you are Ceglar you go to the Dogs take Stefs place.
You be playing next 2-3 years.
Come here your warming the seat for Hippy.. Unless you knock off Big O as #1 ruck

Nothing's perfect when you're looking at getting a second stringer cheaply . It'll be telling if the Dogs give Stef another year and pass on Ceglar.

Gawn's the best ruckman in the game by a long way. And Jackson is the best young ruckman by a long way and very mobile when he's not rucking.. So they've hit the jackpot there.

 

[Scubaveg]

It would good, for sure. Just means that one of the big 5 are injured or in the ressies for it to work - so your ideal scenario is one where someone who should be playing, isn't.

And the issue with Cegler is, you would need to commit to the 2 ruck model, or the resting ruck forward model - Fagan has shown time and time again he likes conistancy.

As long as Hippy, Joe and McStay are in the same forward line - we are commited to the resting forward/ruck model IMO.

Bringing in Fort for free still works because him being in the ressies is ok on 120k a year, Cegler or Big O in the ressies, not so much.

At the least the first half of the year Oscar can play forward and Ceglar ruck. Hipwood will need a few matches back in the ressies to get confident as well.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[lioninthesand]

At the least the first half of the year Oscar can play forward and Ceglar ruck. Hipwood will need a few matches back in the ressies to get confident as well.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I get that, Cegler is a perfect fit while Hipwood is out. As I stated, the issue is once he returns. Does Big O or Cegler then play reserves?

 

[scoman]

I get that, Cegler is a perfect fit while Hipwood is out. As I stated, the issue is once he returns. Does Big O or Cegler then play reserves?

Well it would be a good problem to have. Although if the player we trade in costs 300-400k it is a bit of a waste salary cap wise. The most likely scenario, though, is that someone will be injured anyway when Hipwood returns. Usually have two or three talls down at any point in time across the list. This year we had Andrews, Hipwood, McStay, Adams, Payne, Gardiner all injured at various points. Lester (who often played as a third tall) was injured a bit as well and that's not even including one or two of the regular reserves guys as well. Was Fullerton injured at one stage as well?

 

[lioninthesand]

Well it would be a good problem to have. Although if the player we trade in costs 300-400k it is a bit of a waste salary cap wise. The most likely scenario, though, is that someone will be injured anyway when Hipwood returns. Usually have two or three talls down at any point in time across the list. This year we had Andrews, Hipwood, McStay, Adams, Payne, Gardiner all injured at various points. Lester (who often played as a third tall) was injured a bit as well and that's not even including one or two of the regular reserves guys as well. Was Fullerton injured at one stage as well?

Yep, the system could work if we have a tall down. I was really focused on talls that play in or forward of center - we could hypothesise about the way certain talls could cover Adams and Andrews and an extension of that but I am not sure it's too relevant.

Cegler is great in theory but doesen't make sense in terms of our cap, structure and needs.

We need a big cheap tall (cap and trade value) who can come in, bolster stocks when needed and if it fits that week, cover O if he goes down - but that you don't have seconds thought about him ending up in the ressies.

We can't go spend up and commit to a 2 ruck structure that can't be used as a best 22.