Analysis 2021 trade thread

[mattsmob]

Gold coast looking to salary dump MacPherson and 19 for Norths future 2nd/3rd.

At first it seems bizarre and it still kind of is.

If the AFL starts to allow salary dumps though I wonder if we could move on CEY and open the trade period up a bit more

Even if we could is it really that urgent to offload him? If we have to either pay some salary or give up draft capital to do it I hope we just keep him to help our reserves at the very least.

 

[briztoon]

Gold coast looking to salary dump MacPherson and 19 for Norths future 2nd/3rd.

At first it seems bizarre and it still kind of is.

If the AFL starts to allow salary dumps though I wonder if we could move on CEY and open the trade period up a bit more

I was wondering if anyone would bring this up.

I’d rather give away a decent pick to dump CEY’s contract and free up a list space.

Gold Coast are giving away pick 19. That sets the benchmark. Our closest pick is 18. I’d rather keep it.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I want someone who is in the age profile, young enough to develop and grow with this group.

Why? We already have two rucks who are young enough to develop and grow with this group, Lane and HSmith. There's no need for a third. Besides, talls rarely contribute strongly to team performance until they're 24-25, unless they're uber-talents. If we're looking for someone who can fill the hole Hipwood has left for next year and spell Oscar, I want the best player possible in 2022 that will fit within our cap, and that's not Lewis Young. Fort and Cox can both offer more in the next two seasons, and after they're no longer useful, either one of the youngsters steps up or we find another mature backup.

Why should the club go after cheap and nasty when we could potentially do better.

Because we have a salary cap that we're pretty tight against.

Lloyd's statement is spot on in relation to Brisbane. I could not have said it better. We have many concerns to fix to take the ultimate step but to do little during the Trade Period is not going to fix anything.

Internal improvement can fix a lot.

All in All, the Club has poorly managed the cap and it is disappointing.

Huh? There have been a few missteps (and no one is perfect), but we've signed some superstar players (Cameron, Neale, Daniher), turned some unfancied ones into gold (McCarthy, Lyons, Adams) and re-signed our gun youngsters (Bailey, McCluggage, Starcevich, Rayner). I wouldn't call that poor cap management at all, I'll call it great recruitment. Having our 2020 team and enough in the bank to add Joe Daniher shows how good the cap management was.

 

[twhowler]

I was wondering if anyone would bring this up.

I’d rather give away a decent pick to dump CEY’s contract and free up a list space.

Gold Coast are giving away pick 19. That sets the benchmark. Our closest pick is 18. I’d rather keep it.

Confused by pars 2 and 3 here, contradicting each other unless i am missing something?
Sounds like the suns deal is possibly 19 but a pick back.
Regardless i wouldn’t be doing it. We only have one year of CEY’s contract so it’s not much of a dump. You’d be doing hoping for a flag or very close. I guess a $400k player could help in that regard. You’d want to know who.
i also think the suns have picks to burn / loads of young players. We need a good draft.

 

[lionsrules]

Wtf have people been watching, bringing up lewis young and finlayson as solutions. None of the ones we have actually been linked to are much chop, but what do you expect when you are shopping for a backup.

Bizarre ….. all I said was that I didn’t realise his parents lived in Brisbane.

 

[Section 5]

I don’t really understand.
In the 11 games between round 5 and 16 we went 10 and 1 during the period when we had Hippy, McStay and Joe in the forward line with Oscar rucking.

Yes we did very well during that period thank heavens
Fullarton played when McStay was out early, then came back when Hippy went down
So we only played 1 ruck in the period R5 to R17
One ruck was my preferred option before round 1.
It gives you an extra mid or hybrid type player on bench with Jo filling in for Oscar

If in the 2022 preseason they successfully trial someone like Payne as a 3rd tall forward they may still go down the 1 ruck path

However they also could cover all bases and get someone like Fort and just go down this path with 2 R/F sharing the load
Lions usually play players traded into the club if/when they are fit.
So if Fort or another ruck type player comes in i think that will show their intention

 

[BRAB]

I don’t really understand.
In the 11 games between round 5 and 16 we went 10 and 1 during the period when we had Hippy, McStay and Joe in the forward line with Oscar rucking.

I think Oscar got tired throughout the season and games shouldering a full time load. I think it’d be better if he got a bit more of a break.

When he’s on and the big 3 are on, we look awesome, I’d just like Oscar to be on more and I think that’ll involve managing his load better.

 

[BangyBangy]

I was wondering if anyone would bring this up.

I’d rather give away a decent pick to dump CEY’s contract and free up a list space.

Gold Coast are giving away pick 19. That sets the benchmark. Our closest pick is 18. I’d rather keep it.

Top 20 picks are a different commodity for the Suns compared to the rest of the comp though Unless it's a top 5 pick then pfffttt

 

[BangyBangy]

I think Oscar got tired throughout the season and games shouldering a full time load. I think it’d be better if he got a bit more of a break.

When he’s on and the big 3 are on, we look awesome, I’d just like Oscar to be on more and I think that’ll involve managing his load better.

I don't think he was tired, he was just playing injured & we didn't really have a choice but to keep playing him injured because we didn't have a replacement.

We didn't rest him towards the back half of the season when he came good. I suspect we were managing his training workload & his injuries started to improve.

 

[martinson]

I don't know why some people continue to think Adams is a fringe player.

When he's up and running he was more than competitive against the game's big guns and is one of the best defenders going around. On what I saw.

Sure he's been extremely injury prone but he came back straight into fine form this year and will only get better if he stays on the park. Fingers crossed.

The discussion about ruck replacements is doing my head in. I'm at the stage now, just get anybody and we can close it off.

I wish Fullarton and/or Ballenden had shown a bit more and we wouldn't have to worry.

 

[briztoon]

Confused by pars 2 and 3 here, contradicting each other unless i am missing something?
Sounds like the suns deal is possibly 19 but a pick back.
Regardless i wouldn’t be doing it. We only have one year of CEY’s contract so it’s not much of a dump. You’d be doing hoping for a flag or very close. I guess a $400k player could help in that regard. You’d want to know who.
i also think the suns have picks to burn / loads of young players. We need a good draft.

I missed a “not”, as in “I’d rather not…”.

My bad.

 

[briztoon]

Confused by pars 2 and 3 here, contradicting each other unless i am missing something?
Sounds like the suns deal is possibly 19 but a pick back.
Regardless i wouldn’t be doing it. We only have one year of CEY’s contract so it’s not much of a dump. You’d be doing hoping for a flag or very close. I guess a $400k player could help in that regard. You’d want to know who.
i also think the suns have picks to burn / loads of young players. We need a good draft.

We’re on the same page, don’t worry.

 

[Mighty Lions]

It was my impression that we overdid the selfless things on occasions and someone got inside Bailey's head because he started looking for options when he clearly would've been better off going for it. Sometimes with players like him you're better off giving them their head but I understand he does appear selfish . As he gets better he'll develop better instincts as to when to be more defensive and dish it off and when to make the most of his natural gifts. I don't want to see him lose his flair in any respect.

Agree re Charlie, his defensive work has gone from being very good when he started out to almost non existent this year.

That really depends on your interpretation of what being selfish is. Its not just scoring opportunities for me, its more about doing the 1 & 2%ers that Melbourne were so good at this season. Gut running to defend not just attack is something we are not good at. Is it selfless of Bailey to be second highest in the competition for free kicks against? (Zorko 9th highest) I think being selfless has a lot more to it than most think it does.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Ok, let's get back to the main question.

What do we do if Big O goes down for an extended period?

Let that guide any trade we do.

If the Big O goes down Round 1 next season we are in a lot of trouble with the list we currently have.

If we stick with Ballenden & Fullerton on our list, we need to work hard on them to develop their ruck skills because they have the ability but right now dont have the drive nor the smarts that can be taught.

 

[dlanod]

I was wondering if anyone would bring this up.

I’d rather give away a decent pick to dump CEY’s contract and free up a list space.

Gold Coast are giving away pick 19. That sets the benchmark. Our closest pick is 18. I’d rather keep it.

If it does happen, it would set a benchmark for someone on MacPherson's salary. Given their relative years leading up to their respective contract offers (3rd in B&F versus a contract that only generated a 3rd round pick for Adelaide), I don't think CEY is on anywhere near the same as Darcy. Given your following of the NBA, I'm sure you've noticed the difference in what clubs give away for a salary dump of a max deal versus dumps of less or expiring contracts.

 

[dlanod]

Unless it's a top 5 pick then pfffttt

Lachie Weller says you might as well include those too.

 

[RoyBoy17]

I used to prefer having one genuine ruck and a pinch hitter but after I saw Big O tire late in games in the back end of the year, namely against eagles, Melbourne and dogs, I think we must play two genuine rucks moving forward more for countering threats like Gawn and Jackson combo come finals. A lot of teams don’t play two rucks so it can be a big point of difference at the end of the year. Fort is also no mug in the forward line. Just as cox is also underrated as a ruck. Both upgrades on Fullerton and that’s what we are after. If hipwood comes back then that’s great. We have a selection headache

 

[jackess]

If you’re MacPherson, would you accept the trade?

One of the most pathetic clubs trying to get your salary off the books handing you over with a high draft pick to another terrible club. Couldn’t think of anything much more embarrassing to happen to a footballer.

 

[dlanod]

If you’re MacPherson, would you accept the trade?

One of the most pathetic clubs trying to get your salary off the books handing you over with a high draft pick to another terrible club. Couldn’t think of anything much more embarrassing to happen to a footballer.

I know players have to agree to the trade but scenarios like this and Witherden's show it's pretty hard to say no.

1. If your primary interest is money, you're still getting paid the same amount.
2. If your primary interest is playing in the AFL, your club has made it clear it can't see you getting senior time there. You're getting a fresh start at a new club.
3. If your primary interest is comfort, in some cases you're ending up at a location you'd rather be long term.

Pretty much the only reason to say no is #3, if you're more at home where you are and/or with your playing group, even if you're not playing seniors.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Doesn’t help Gold Coast’s reputation going forward when they try to lure players there.

A mess.

 

[davemc_lions]

I do think we need help for Oscar, most of the top 8 sides have 1 gen ruck and someone else who can ruck who plays forward.
We did that in 2019/2020 in 2021 we went with Joe as the second ruck. Who while good around the ground gets beaten in the ruck.
Centre square more so, sometimes does not even make a 50/50 against a real ruck
When Hipwood went down we brough Fullarton who was also not really effective in the ruck.
Both tried although not in the same class as other rucks.

Look at Melbourne in the Grand Final.. Having both Gawn and Jackson who both can ruck won them the game.
That passage in the third they opened everything up.
We hope Neale and Lyons can pick off the other rucks hits.. If not then defensively we get cut to pieces with pace against us

Melb Gawn/Jackson
Dogs Martin or Young and English
Cats Stanley with Hawkins forward, Ratugolea and Blicavs
Port Lycett and Ladhams.. with Dixon chopping out
Swans Hickey and McLean
Dons Draper and Wright

With GWS only used Mummy in finals they normally had Flynn or Briggs

 

[David C]

Lloyd's statement is spot on in relation to Brisbane. I could not have said it better. We have many concerns to fix to take the ultimate step but to do little during the Trade Period is not going to fix anything. Putting cheap Band Aids on our issues is stupid. All in All, the Club has poorly managed the cap and it is disappointing. I think Melbourne will win next years premiership already so we need to keep building otherwise our chance will diminish.

Mismanaged the cap? Half the clubs are under cap stress due to covid. Collingwood and Sydney mismanaged the cap. Only thing we could have done was ask the players to take a pay cut like other clubs did.

 

[T Rick]

I used to prefer having one genuine ruck and a pinch hitter but after I saw Big O tire late in games in the back end of the year, namely against eagles, Melbourne and dogs, I think we must play two genuine rucks moving forward more for countering threats like Gawn and Jackson combo come finals. A lot of teams don’t play two rucks so it can be a big point of difference at the end of the year. Fort is also no mug in the forward line. Just as cox is also underrated as a ruck. Both upgrades on Fullerton and that’s what we are after. If hipwood comes back then that’s great. We have a selection headache

Agreed - would be good to get Fort for backup & support for Oscar...the Big O had a fantastic season and gave his heart and soul to the team but he did tire, particularly against the elite rucks in the competition. We also need that insurance on the list in case something happened to take Oscar out of play for an extended period. Oscar can also be a dangerous player when switched forward and having Fort available would assist with that option.
I have never seen Fort play so don't really know anything at all about him other than what I have read on Big Footy but he certainly appeals more than the other options being bandied about.

 

[T Rick]

Mismanaged the cap? Half the clubs are under cap stress due to covid. Collingwood and Sydney mismanaged the cap. Only thing we could have done was ask the players to take a pay cut like other clubs did.

I actually think it is a good thing that we didn't go down the path of asking players to take a pay cut and then compromising the Cap for several years during "pay bacK"...we have taken our medicine and can go forward without that millstone.

 

[Lionwest]

Doesn’t help Gold Coast’s reputation going forward when they try to lure players there.

A mess.

Such a poor look, especially when using the pick allocated by the AFL to facilitate the trade.