Analysis 2021 trade thread

[Quigley]

I think most of us on here believed he was going a regular member in our Best 22 when we got him in the trade period as that extra big-bodied midfielder in the lineup, but somehow didn't seem to work out and outside a couple of games in 2020, hasn't really set the world on fire for us.

Was a bad decision by our behalf to get him from Adelaide, to be completely honest, no it really wasn't by the club because even though he hasn't been that regular member of our AFL team, he didn't cost a whole heap for us (via draft-hand/cost) to get him and helps provide that mature depth with Mathieson in the midfield of our VFL side and helps develop the next future crop of midfielders stuck in the reserve levels for us (Robertson, Sharp, T.Berry, E.Smith, etc). Without Mathieson & CEY in that midfield of our VFL for us as such, we would basically having 1-2 year players in the midfield for us all the time and that wouldn't be overall good for their development at all without those experienced players helping them with their craft.

The other thing as well that we have to remember is that if CEY was part of our Best 22 constantly throughout the past 2 years, someone like Robertson would have be missing out on constant AFL level footy and therefore could have requested a trade back home to WA for greater opportunities as a result in the future, given the fact Robertson will have a MUCH higher ceiling in the future at AFL-level (in terms of ability and skills) compared to CEY and would get really good offers from Fremantle & West Coast to play for them in their midfield.

So of course it would have been nice for CEY to be Best 22 for us but at the same time, it isn't the biggest problem in the world having him and the other mature/fringe players (Lester, Cockatoo, Mathieson, etc) play in the VFL team and hopefully help and develop the next generation of players at our club in the long-term future for us, while young superstars like Robertson, Prior & K.Coleman continue to gain crucial minutes in the AFL to be crucial players for us in the future as well.

Like Fagan always says to us in the media every year though: Players win Matches - Squads win Premierships

I am not sure most saw him as part of the best 22. Personally I saw him most likely as a top 25 or so player who could come in and provide solid minutes when needed. He did have potential to be best 22 on a best case scenario and his big body made him a punt worth taking. At worst I saw him as a big body in the reserves that would help the younger mids develop by taking the physical pressure off them.

I didn't have any issue with us picking him up as I thought he would be a nice squad player. It has not worked out like that and the length of his contract looks bad in hind sight.

 

[jackess]

If Jarryd Lyons

17

Jarryd Lyons

Age

31

Ht

184cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.5

5star

K

11.8

4star

HB

8.7

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

4.8

5star

D

21.7

5star

K

14.7

5star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

5.1

5star

CL

4.7

5star

D

11.0

3star

K

5.2

2star

HB

5.8

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

CL

1.6

4star

ever missed a game (while CEY was fit) we might have seen more of what he was capable of

 

[Dalions]

If Jarryd Lyons ever missed a game (while CEY was fit) we might have seen more of what he was capable of

I feel pretty sure we have seen what he is capable of.

 

[jackess]

I feel pretty sure we have seen what he is capable of.

He averaged 23 disposals, 12 contested, 5 clearances and 5 tackles in his last season at the Crows. He was playing some decent footy despite struggling to get a decent run with injuries. Then he comes to us and mainly plays forward

 

[Cubs2Lions]

If Jarryd Lyons ever missed a game (while CEY was fit) we might have seen more of what he was capable of

Personally, if Lyons ever misses a game for us, I would rather we just replace him with J.Berry or Robertson as that starting midfield on the field (even though they are already Best 22 players in our AFL side) and use that position on the bench to add another utility-based player for us that might be on the fringe in 2022 depending on the opposition we are facing, such as Ah Chee, Cockatoo, Coleman, Prior, Sharp, etc.

 

[Dalions]

He averaged 23 disposals, 12 contested, 5 clearances and 5 tackles in his last season at the Crows. He was playing some decent footy despite struggling to get a decent run with injuries. Then he comes to us and mainly plays forward

In a s**t team, he was never going to do that here.
But the CEY lovers will always have the tackle on Dylan Shiel to remember him by.

 

[mattsmob]

I feel pretty sure we have seen what he is capable of.

To be fair he hasn't really be given a run in his preferred role at AFL level, which is to be expected with our current mids. I think his one game against Geelong in the finals has soured a lot of people's memory but his performance that day is on the coaches as much as it is on him.

 

[jackess]

In a sh*t team, he was never going to do that here.
But the CEY lovers will always have the tackle on Dylan Shiel to remember.

Ok you don't seem to want to be taken seriously

 

[jackess]

Personally, if Lyons ever misses a game for us, I would rather we just replace him with J.Berry or Robertson as that starting midfield on the field (even though they are already Best 22 players in our AFL side) and use that position on the bench to add another utility-based player for us that might be on the fringe in 2022 depending on the opposition we are facing, such as Ah Chee, Cockatoo, Coleman, Prior, Sharp, etc.

Me too. Now. But at the start of 2020 Lyons does his ACL and CEY is fresh off a big preseason....

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Me too. Now. But at the start of 2020 Lyons does his ACL and CEY is fresh off a big preseason....

Deven Robertson to the rescue I say

Seriously though, I don't think CEY is a overall bad player for us and it wasn't the worst of pickups we could have got, sure he might have his limitations, injury concerns and might have not been the best outcome for us as a trade target, but I mean if he was playing for us in 2016 and not 2021 for example, he would make our AFL Best 22 any day of the week. Really speaks volumes of how amazing are club has been performing for the past couple of years on-field now with Fages, Nobes, Daly, Swan, etc at the helm.

 

[Section 5]

Based on BigFooty, no that’s not what I’m trying to say at all, and that’s just trying for cheap point scoring cr@p.

Based on what he was (not) producing and performing at Adelaide, definitely wasn’t worth a list spot.

Cam Ellis Yolmen 29 years old in January 2022

Year	Team	GM	K	H	D	M	G	B	T	HO	FF	FA	GA	I50	CL	CG	R50	BL
2020​	Lions​	9​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
2019​	Crows​	10​	10.0​	13.5​	23.5​	2.9​	0.2​	0.2​	5.6​	0​	0.8​	0.8​	0.7​	2.3​	4.8​	2.7​	1.3​	0.20​

Hugh Greenwood 30 yrs in March 2022

Year	Team	GM	K	H	D	M	G	B	T	HO	FF	FA	GA	I50	CL	CG	R50	BL
2021​	Suns​	15​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
2020​	Suns​	17​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
2019​	Crows​	14​	8.5​	8.6​	17.1​	2.4​	0.8​	0.4​	6.1​	0​	0.9​	0.6​	0​	1.4​	4.2​	1.9​	1.0​	​

I was happy for us to get him at the time but on a 3 year deal. Have to admit it has not worked out to date.
Still has 1 year to go so not all lost yet.
Adams mentioned early in 2021 that he needed a good year to repay the club which he did. Hopefully CEY is of the same mindset

With his ACL injury history and only 10 games in 2019 with the Crows i doubt he was on much of a contract
The Club gambled with injury prone players in Adams and McCarthy the year before so took another with CEY
In my opinion it was defiantly worth a gamble and a list spot at the time

 

[briztoon]

Me too. Now. But at the start of 2020 Lyons does his ACL and CEY is fresh off a big preseason....

I watched the whole of 2020 preseason, along with a couple of others here.

There was no chance of CEY getting near the senior team when the season started.

The covid shut down was a godsend for CEY, because he used the 3+ month break to actually get fit.

 

[T Rick]

Based on BigFooty, no that’s not what I’m trying to say at all, and that’s just trying for cheap point scoring cr@p.

Based on what he was (not) producing and performing at Adelaide, definitely wasn’t worth a list spot.

Adelaide fans didn't seem too concerned about him leaving that is for sure. I'm surprised that Noble backed him in given his time at the AFC.

 

[Dalions]

Ok you don't seem to want to be taken seriously

Well I guess when you are not actually being serious, you don’t expect to be taken seriously

 

[jackess]

Adelaide fans didn't seem too concerned about him leaving that is for sure. I'm surprised that Noble backed him in given his time at the AFC.

We didn't seem too concerned with Keays leaving

 

[T Rick]

We didn't seem too concerned with Keays leaving

Fair point...

 

[jackess]

Well I guess when you are not actually being serious, you don’t expect to be taken seriously

What would I know I'm a CEY lover. I'm blinded to common sense by my love for him

 

[Dalions]

What would I know I'm a CEY lover. I'm blinded to common sense by my love for him

Love is blind.

 

[blueiris]

If Jarryd Lyons ever missed a game (while CEY was fit) we might have seen more of what he was capable of

I think Mathieson would get more games just like when Neale missed games this season

 

[The Zork]

Hindsight is undefeated

 

[scoman]

Hindsight is undefeated

Only because it hasn't met Chuck Norris.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Scrolling on the web today and found this video from Nobes talking about their trade targets for the 2016 season when he was still Head of Football and part of the list management/committee at the Adelaide Crows.

Now, lets be completely realistic here, other then Paul Seedsman

11

Paul Seedsman

Age

32

Ht

190cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

10.7

4star

HB

7.6

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.5

4star

D

15.8

4star

K

8.2

3star

HB

7.6

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

1.8

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

14.0

5star

HB

5.8

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.6

4star

CL

1.4

4star

, the other players that were brought into the side didn't have that much of an impact to their overall Best 22 during that period of time, when they were playing finals, and were pretty much delisted 2-3 years down the track anyhow. Yes they are at the bottom of the barrel now the Crows (as a result of that camp) but we have to remember that it was only 5 years ago, that the club were top of the ladder and seriously hot favourites in the Grand Final against the Tigers in 2017.

The point I'm trying to make is sadly not every trade target we recruit in the future will not be a success for whatever reason or another (CEY for example) and play constant Best 22 footy for us in the future. Also it should be noted that because our team has become more consistent in being successful for the past 3 years, the less spots are up for grabs in our AFL Best 22 and therefore some older recruits might miss out on selection and therefore play little Best 22 footy as a result of the club being successful already.

Like I said before, everyone likes to put CEY as the poster boy for not performing well enough at the club since his arrival from the Crows, but he is mainly not in our Best 22 atm cause our whole team is already stacked of young & experienced talent all across the ground, and that if he came to the club in 2016 instead, he would have most likely been part of our AFL Best 22 team as quick as a heartbeat.

We should just be very grateful and appreciative that 99% of our trade recruits over the past 5 years or so under Fages reign have played consistent Best 22 footy for us and have contributed to our climb back up the ladder again. Yes, we were the biggest joke in the AFL since Meatlof for ages and tbh any recruit would have made our Best 22 during that period (no matter their ability), but for the club to find good quality players (on-field & off-field) for us in the past 5 years to help build our club again from the inside and out and again be back in the position we were since the three-peat era, shows us that the list management/recruitment know exactly what they are doing at the club, even if they get the odd decision wrong sometimes because we all are human after all.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Noble leaving us is a disaster. What is going on at North is fantastic, they are getting the right people and players into the system. Norths performance was greatly improved with him at the helm. There will more improvement in 2022 with him there. Very active. It looks as though we are going to sit on our backsides, watch and hardly do anything. Cannot see us improving in 2022 by having a reactive approach to obtain quality players. Most will say we have the players but Rayner and Co have not played for a season - are they going to be good?. Is Hipwood going to come back any good? - there are many question marks over a lot of players mentioned that are needed for us to improve. One or Two might improve greatly but alot won't. We need some good player injection to go the next step. We are not winning in finals!

lots of funny posts like this one

 

[M Malice]

lots of funny posts like this one

Bit tough on Strato there Nathan... you could go through any historical thread and cherry pick posts to show up just about any poster, I for one was also bullish on Noble to North, I have had a few other doozies over the years as well.... eg. Karnezis will be a star of the competition, Leppa a fantastic choice as coach for us, Schache will be a champion of the game.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I remember a poster who cracked the sads and boycotted BigFooty when we drafted Kai Lohmann.