List Mgmt. 2022 Draft Thread - Part I

[George]

Sticking this at the top of each page. If it gets annoying, let me know and I can just put it in the original post of the thread. Credit to Lore

 

[stavro#4]

Bit of talk about trading up to Essendon but what about targeting Hawthorn? If we could give a future second up to potentially guarantee tsatas or philipou assuming suns go ginbey or Humphrey?

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Hawthorn are guaranteed one of Humphrey Tsatas Phillipou or Cmac.

No need for them to trade.

Essendon look like they want Phillipou. They can probably grab him at our pick and gain a pick as opposed to blowing 4 on him which would be a slight reach.

 

[CaptainRisky]

I reckon this is spot on. Some hard luck with injuries to high-middle range picks has hurt too. Goddard, McCartin, Gresham, Clark, Coffield, Billings, Higgins, McKenzie, Paton. All these blokes have had significant time out at a stage, or multiple stages.

The Goddard one frustrated me the most. Felt like we really didn't give him a chance to get back, especially considering he was a key pos player that generally takes longer to get to the level.

How did he go at Carlton and where is he now , that's what you have to ask yourself

 

[phantom13]

I sort of agree with you. Mids taken high have a much higher strike rate through the draft's history. We seemed to have an issue with taking mids for a decade. We tried to take HBFs and utilities and avoided obvious needs and didn't even draft those well.

I would like to target a mid with our first pick for a couple of years just to bulk up the future list quality but anything after first round should just be best available. We need KP and ruck depth, small forwards and probably some more running HBs and HFs/ wings as well. Neglecting those won't help us long term.

To me you need a couple of gun KPs but the rest of the supporting talls can be depth types taken later.

Our most successful period of recent memory involved a mix of drafting quality talls and mids.

2000 - Roo and Kozi 1 and 2 (Gehrig and Hamill traded in)
2001 - Ball 2, Clarke 5, Dal 13, Maguire 21, Montagna 37
2002 - Goddard 1
2003 - Fisher 55 (Gram and Guerra traded in)
2004 - Gwilt 63
2005 - Gilbert 33
2006 - Armo 9

So we have 2 talls in the first round and 3 outside round 1.
4 mids in the first round 1 outside.

And a bunch of other types.

But then the likes of Clint Jones, Jack Steven etc all went later again.

I think in reality (and this has been discussed by alot of take best available early, be it mid or tall (Trac was still best in the McCartin draft but whatever). Then try to get your needs with whats left.

 

[hangdog]

How did he go at Carlton and where is he now , that's what you have to ask yourself

Had a tough backline to crack into there. It's not like they've developed young guys that well either. Dow and Sticker immediately spring to mind

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

The Dogs were in the GF last year. And they won a (lucky) flag a few years ago with good mids and only GOP talls. And they've made finals the last 4 years in a row.

Consistently being around the mark has meant they've been able to attract decent (not star) free agents and trades to fill gaps: O'Brien, Treloar, Martin, Hannan, Bruce, Keath, Duryea, Crozier, Schache. Not all or even most of those have worked out but they've still been in a position to grab them because they're making finals.



Yeah but you only need one or two AA forwards whereas you need probably 8 running players of at least B+ grade to be at all competitive. And getting B+ graders (level of around the AA squad) isn't as easy as it sounds. It takes a lot of picks to get a good shot at those 8.

Yeah but they got flogged in that grand final and finals. Making up the numners

 

[CaptainRisky]

And that one big game was against the other young ruck, who was picked up in the PSD? can't recall his name, who actually had a much more consistent & better season.
Allison kicked a 70 metre bomb goal, in his last game for Sandy. Lets hope he can become the Gunston, he's been compared to. ???

Where did that come from , never heard that before

 

[CaptainRisky]

Had a tough backline to crack into there. It's not like they've developed young guys that well either. Dow and Sticker immediately spring to mind

So both clubs are sh1t , Maybe its the other part of the equation that's no good

 

[hangdog]

So both clubs are sh1t , Maybe its the other part of the equation that's no good

Not saying it was the wrong decision, just that it was the most frustrating one. We essentially kept him on the list long enough to recover, but not to prove himself.

 

[hayes]

Had a tough backline to crack into there. It's not like they've developed young guys that well either. Dow and Sticker immediately spring to mind

Cripps, Walsh, Curnow, McKay, Weitering, Jones etc go alright. Development gets overplayed IMO. Why could we develop an all star list from 2004-11 with probably not even half of the resources we’ve had recently and then all of a sudden we can’t develop players. We just picked the wrong ones.

 

[gringo2011]

No Melbourne couldn;t develop players untill they brought in Paul Roos. Our VFL program is a joke and has been since Paul Hudson left. No consistant VFL senior coach and all first timers. Its so much easier to say that our draftin has been crap then adress the underlying coaching/development issues imo.

I think you can have both. Our drafting should show a heap of guys that left and became stars at other clubs if it was our program alone. Even the worst run clubs develop a few stars every decade. We have the least FAs, the least 22 under 22, the least Brownlow votes etc because Trout was not a recruiter and we didn't address it. As your evidence says you get an assistant coach to overtake the most important role at a club and you get what we ended up with.

Roos set standards and improved the club but drafting Petracca, Oliver, Pickett types made them go from a struggler to premier.

 

[gringo2011]

33 and 47 fell into our lap - ok

We were lucky that no-one bid on them. Both showed a bit to suggest that someone might throw in a bid much earlier than they went. They were in our academy and were an opportunity to grab a couple of rare bargains. If they'd been in the open draft they are much harder to find.

 

[gringo2011]

Your memory is going - played 8 games in his first season averaged 12 disposals and 4 marks (best game was 20 disposals and 5 marks). Only played 1 game in 2016 when he did his achilles then turf toe and then his next game was in the last round in 2018 before he was de-listed.

Looked more than likely as 19 YO young defender in his first year - but the fact is that his injuries meant he never really got a proper go at it.

View attachment 1558375

I watched him at Sandy and he looked average at that level before late in his last season. He just wasn't that good. His first year looks okay on paper but I never saw him look anything special at AFL level. He was no better than a Staley type apart from where he went in the draft.

Clavarino showed more than him and still got the arse. Hugh probably got longer than average to justify the pick to be honest.

 

[gringo2011]

GC needs to store points for a free academy players, no?

Here's a hypothetical. Seb Ross in his last year of a contract, playing good footy, but is picked behind Steele and Crouch each week and has Gresham, Clark, Sinclair, Windy, Owens, Pick 10, Bytel all pushing for a spot in the guts.

Even if he has a good season, is he someone we can trade for a pick in the 20's along with our organic 2nd rounder for their first? So long as there's genuine improvement from the names listed above, Seb could become expendable (which would be brutal given his resurgence).

Zak Jones might fall into that category also, but wouldn't fetch anything higher than the 30's.

Who would want Seb? He's only going to a club in challenge mode. A Brownlow medalist went for pick 27 this year and Matt Crouch didn't get looked at. I'd say he'd get us a token pick if he wasn't best 22. If Gresham stays fit he probably gets us 2 firsts with a second back and then we could try to replace him which would probably cost the same amount.

Clubs don't want the GOPs, they want top talent unless it's free or cheap.

 

[gringo2011]

Had a tough backline to crack into there. It's not like they've developed young guys that well either. Dow and Sticker immediately spring to mind

Not when he was there.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Cripps, Walsh, Curnow, McKay, Weitering, Jones etc go alright. Development gets overplayed IMO. Why could we develop an all star list from 2004-11 with probably not even half of the resources we’ve had recently and then all of a sudden we can’t develop players. We just picked the wrong ones.

This

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

How did he go at Carlton and where is he now , that's what you have to ask yourself

His achilles and then foot injury wrecked him.

He was looking very promising until the injuries... just like Jarryd Allen was before his hip.

 

[CaptainRisky]

His achilles and then foot injury wrecked him.

He was looking very promising until the injuries... just like Jarryd Allen was before his hip.

Allen was a real shame ,

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Where did that come from , never heard that before

Yeah, in his draft year profile.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

The other ruck who was chosen BEFORE Heath. Loved that he showed him who the better ruck is in the end. I want Heath to destroy the North one who got picked first

Ned Moyle from the Suns & Jacob Edwards, North

 

[stavro#4]

 

[Joffaboy]

We were lucky that no-one bid on them. Both showed a bit to suggest that someone might throw in a bid much earlier than they went. They were in our academy and were an opportunity to grab a couple of rare bargains. If they'd been in the open draft they are much harder to find.

They both showed the can play, I was surprised that nobody bid on them, always a bit of subterfuge with the AFL though, maybe a word to other clubs.
Maybe they hadn't shown enough to be straight out top twenty, Windy certainly was told to rest his 'bad back', so was a bit out of sight for the latter part of 2021.
Whatever the case, we had the advantage over other clubs, however they certainly didn't fall into our laps.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Ned Moyle from the Suns & Jacob Edwards, North

Looks better than both. We got a bargain.

 

[Joffaboy]

Considering we actually only had pick 49 I would say they fell in our laps

Matching bids by Sydney @ 33 and Geelong @ 47 fell into our laps? You people are clueless.

Being PF Brisbane and getting Ashcroft as a F/S is falling into your lap, being Finalist and getting Ugle-Hagen as Acedamy and Darcy F/S @ who were both touted as No.1 picks is falling into your lap.

Getting a player mid second round, and another third round while not being able to bid on them until after 20 (although other clubs have been able to) is anything but 'falling into our laps'.
Anything to hang s.hit on the clubs with some of you lot.

 

[phantom13]

Matching bids by Sydney @ 33 and Geelong @ 47 fell into our laps? You people are clueless.

Being PF Brisbane and getting Ashcroft as a F/S is falling into your lap, being Finalist and getting Ugle-Hagen as Acedamy and Darcy F/S @ who were both touted as No.1 picks is falling into your lap.

Getting a player mid second round, and another third round while not being able to bid on them until after 20 (although other clubs have been able to) is anything but 'falling into our laps'.
Anything to hang s.hit on the clubs with some of you lot.

I think its just a misalignment on what "fall in your lap" means here.

It doesnt read as a criticism of the club to me, more that we got lucky a bunch of other clubs didnt see what potential they had like Hird going at 70 odd etc.

The bidding system after 20 (for the academy) seems a bit pointless. If i was another club looking at Windy and Owens it would feel pointless to bid on them there cause its almost certainly gonna get matched.

 

[FrogDude]

Looks better than both. We got a bargain.

Moyle looks fantastic and a lot better than Heath at this stage. Less impact up forward but was the VFL TOTY ruck.