List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[Thetrader15]

The reason we keep Berg is that delisting both him & Frampton at the same leaves us desperately short of tall forwards. It leaves us with Walker, Thilthorpe, Fogarty & Gollant. Walker is now a year-to-year proposition, Gollant isn't KPP sized, Fogarty is no certainty to make it (though his last 2 games have been promising), and Thilthorpe is a 2nd year kid who is still growing into his body.

I know the reason, I just think we need to be stop wasting time and give someone else a go up there. Maybe we play only 2 KPFs if Tex, Fog or Thilthorpe go down.

Maybe we have played McAsey up forward no because we have made a decision on Berg, and he's the next in line...maybe it's because he's struggling down back again!

I'd rather spend the time with McAsey or Worrell up forward than bringing Berg back in.

 

[whattagun07]

Sweet's problem is lack of talent. He's the perfect backup - can do an ok job if called upon, but not good enough for anyone to want to poach him.

The best ruckmen either dominate the tap or offer some value (whether it’s the extra body at ground level, providing an option around the ground or sitting behind the play and intercepting) around the ground. The great ones do both. The good ones do well in one, and at least try to offer something in the other. The bad ones try to offer something at both, but don’t do well.

Sweet falls into that last category which consigns him to ‘permanent backup’ territory. He’s 24 with 4 years in the system. So what we’re seeing now should be close enough to where he is.

He’s a bad ruckman. Look at these hitout rates
Round 9: Darcy Cameron 57% - Sweet 41%
Round 10: Witts 52% - Sweet 33%

Darcy Cameron is one of the worst ‘hit out’ ruckmen in the comp, too. He goes at 37% this season (despite getting to beat up on the reserve ruck when Grundy was in the team, and since then, he's rucked against a relatively easy batch of rucks) and 33% last season. So that Cameron wiped Sweet is bad. The rucks who sit in a similar hitout rate bracket to Sweet are all pretty good around the ground. Sweet as yet, is not.

If I'm looking for a ruck to come across and be our #2 and push ROB, these would be my candidates (in preferential order) (I think Strachan is fine as a backup, to be fair)

Matt Flynn - seems like Preuss is their preferred and he's far too good around the ground and at the tap to be a backup. Probably dislodgeds ROB
Nick Bryan - jet around the ground. plays like a mid. competitive at the tap for a stringbean
Toby Conway - no chance, unfortunately. Probably becomes Geelong's main man in a year or two
Kieran Briggs - too good to be a third stringer and offers some physicality
Kalin Lane/Max Heath - early signs are positive given they're rakes.

Interesting. Thanks for that response.
I can't profess to have watched him closely. Do you think you've focused on him when he's played? Or is it more a statistical analysis?
I think it's still quite early on in his AFL career, and has played just 8 career games. I wouldn't expect him to come in and dominate the taps, particularly against a 208cm and a 205cm ruck who both have him covered in age and experience. Maybe just one to watch over the next year, particularly if he comes cheap when out of contract. We might have had enough of our two by then (if we haven't already)

 

[Mutineer]

Interesting. Thanks for that response.
I can't profess to have watched him closely. Do you think you've focused on him when he's played? Or is it more a statistical analysis?
I think it's still quite early on in his AFL career, and has played just 8 career games. I wouldn't expect him to come in and dominate the taps, particularly against a 208cm and a 205cm ruck who both have him covered in age and experience. Maybe just one to watch over the next year, particularly if he comes cheap when out of contract. We might have had enough of our two by then (if we haven't already)

We want an upgrade not a downgrade on what we already have...I don't see him as an upgrade at all.

 

[Dangerousfield]

Not disagreeing, but if you eliminate the picks of equivalent number (within 1 pick) you are left with Freo having 3 x pick 8’s and Adelaide pick 12 so effectively 2 top 10 picks more.
This doesn’t account for different strengths of drafts.

Did Freo do better with their picks than us?

No club is trading for Crouch, Frampton, Milera, other clubs see exactly what we see when they play seniors. McAsey and Worrell can't get a game in a bottom 4 side, other than LOLNorf, who would want that ballast on their list?

 

[FR0GGY]

Did Freo do better with their picks than us?

No club is trading for Crouch, Frampton, Milera, other clubs see exactly what we see when they play seniors. McAsey and Worrell can't get a game in a bottom 4 side, other than LOLNorf, who would want that ballast on their list?

That’s the other thing they seem to have done better with picks.
However fyfe and Neale were pre those listed picks.

 

[Carmo]

Chayce Jones - Has never had 20 touches in a game of AFL footy.

Nicks gave him a string of games in the middle in 2020.

Rounds 6-9 he attended 53%, 63%, 85% and 60% of the centre bounces respectively.

In these games he registered 11, 6, 6, and 8 disposals.

He has not attended a centre bounce since.

Where does the blame for this fall? Hamish? Chayce? Coaching/Development?

Sums up our last 5 years.

Not sure why I posted this here. Is he worth persisting with as a BP? Try him again in the middle? Or try and move him on / delist?

He just got 20 possessions in the SANFL playing back flank/pocket in a heavily rain impacted not exactly high posession match.

He was the 3rd highest possession winner in the team behind Frampton with 26 and Worrell with 22. Ahead of Cook with 19 and Schoenberg 18, Sholl 17,Strachan 17, Himmelberg 14, Nank 12, Pedlar12, Taylor12

Sure he's been in the system longer than most but unlike all of those I listed with less possessions, he was playing in defence and accountable for an opponent, not in the mid like most of those.

He was wrecked by the previous coaching. He's just coming good. Keep him and reap the benefits is my view. Should turn out to be a very good player. Handy for us to have someone with the attributes to deal with good small forwards. I'm thankful to have him.

 

[Skippos]

Interesting. Thanks for that response.
I can't profess to have watched him closely. Do you think you've focused on him when he's played? Or is it more a statistical analysis?
I think it's still quite early on in his AFL career, and has played just 8 career games. I wouldn't expect him to come in and dominate the taps, particularly against a 208cm and a 205cm ruck who both have him covered in age and experience. Maybe just one to watch over the next year, particularly if he comes cheap when out of contract. We might have had enough of our two by then (if we haven't already)

The time Jordan was coming through the juniors was when I was a lot more involved in scouting, so I've got a pretty good background on him. I liked him in his draft year and was disappointed he didn't get picked up. So coming from a position of 'seeing value' to now seeing less with him in the system. Have watched every game he's played and more than a few VFL ones. So the analysis is coming from a pretty reasonable sample.

There's more to rucking than height. I'd be backing Ryder at 197cm to beat most 203-205cm rucks. Of course it matters, but there are some rucks that, in spite of their height, are just poor tap ruckmen. Tim English is a great example. 207cm and still in the bottom rung of tap rucks in the comp (which is a big improvement on being routinely wiped 60 hitouts to 6 by Gawn and Grundy until last year). Cameron too is awful. Routinely loses the tap. So if you're losing to him, you're battling. Luke Jackson, Peter Ladhams, Tim English, Darcy Cameron, Tom De Koning, Stef Martin and Tom Hickey the others in that 'bad category'

Certainly worth watching, but he'd need to really come along to ever be more than a backup for mine.

 

[Danger Zone]

Has anyone heard any news on Poulter at Collingwood? Last I heard he is out of contract this season and isn't getting a look in at the moment despite good form in the reserves. I really liked him in his draft year and could be the tall SA mid we are looking for.

 

[DJ75]

I know the reason, I just think we need to be stop wasting time and give someone else a go up there. Maybe we play only 2 KPFs if Tex, Fog or Thilthorpe go down.

Maybe we have played McAsey up forward no because we have made a decision on Berg, and he's the next in line...maybe it's because he's struggling down back again!

I'd rather spend the time with McAsey or Worrell up forward than bringing Berg back in.

It's almost like taking a punt on a kid that plays one of those positions in the MSD might have been worth it. You know, rather than a 25 year old that offers nothing new than what we already have.

 

[Mutineer]

 

[Thetrader15]

Breaking news...Taylor Walker eats lunch.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

1 year deal on the table.

 

[Thetrader15]

1 year deal on the table.

Good. Over to Tex to decide if he wants 1 year or 2 elsewhere.

 

[Scorpus]

The whole thing is such a media beat up. Nothing Tex has done over his career would indicate he has interest playing elsewhere

 

[LoBu]

Epic trolling video goes 1.19 minutes

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Bearded Clam]

reacon they’ll offer tex 1 with some really easy triggers for a second..

 

[Redline]

Correct they can't stop it, there are legal ramifications and if the player is forced into a four year contract against there will and they actually want to live and work in another state they must be allowed to leave.

IMO signing a contract should be worth more than it seems to be, but I don't agree with mandatory contracts lasting years.

Clubs need to take care who they draft, like it or not, and North should have taken the deal offered last year.

The AFL can't over complain about the North poor management decisions when they sign them all off, but North have cut too hard and made poor draft decisions.


On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

If the AFL wants something they find a way to make it happen. They won't let him leave.

 

[Redline]

reacon they’ll offer tex 1 with some really easy triggers for a second..

I agree, they couldn't offer two straight up.

 

[Peter Doherty]

If we finish bottom 4, we need to be pushing for access to Keeler.

North will be getting an assistance package, that's for sure. We need to be slipping in behind them with the lesser demand of access to our NGAs after the first round.

Will Kelly

20

Will Kelly

Age

25

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

5.0

1star

K

4.0

2star

HB

1.0

1star

M

2.0

2star

T

0.0

1star

MG

108.0

2star

D

5.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.0

1star

M

2.0

2star

T

0.0

1star

MG

108.0

2star

D

5.0

1star

K

4.0

2star

HB

1.0

2star

M

2.0

3star

T

0.0

1star

MG

108.0

2star

even ask?

 

[Mutineer]

If we finish bottom 4, we need to be pushing for access to Keeler.

North will be getting an assistance package, that's for sure. We need to be slipping in behind them with the lesser demand of access to our NGAs after the first round.

Will Kelly even ask?

Speaking of Will Kelly, reckon now he's got his body right he would be handy around these parts...we did bid on him in his draft year.

 

[Peter Doherty]

Speaking of Will Kelly, reckon now he's got his body right he would be handy around these parts...we did bid on him in his draft year.

Haha, 'will Adam Kelly even ask?'.

 

[Sanders]

Surely a trade will get done with North for JHF, Noble went to Harvard business school and learned the art of the deal remember?

For 2 weeks

 

[skittlebrew]

Chayce Jones - Has never had 20 touches in a game of AFL footy.

Nicks gave him a string of games in the middle in 2020.

Rounds 6-9 he attended 53%, 63%, 85% and 60% of the centre bounces respectively.

In these games he registered 11, 6, 6, and 8 disposals.

He has not attended a centre bounce since.

Where does the blame for this fall? Hamish? Chayce? Coaching/Development?

Sums up our last 5 years.

Not sure why I posted this here. Is he worth persisting with as a BP? Try him again in the middle? Or try and move him on / delist?

And to think the number of potatoes on here who keep calling to give him another crack in the middle smh.

He just doesn't have it, it's really that straightforward and obvious to see.

 

[MRB37]

Has anyone heard any news on Poulter at Collingwood? Last I heard he is out of contract this season and isn't getting a look in at the moment despite good form in the reserves. I really liked him in his draft year and could be the tall SA mid we are looking for.

Heard a few Collingwood fans be pretty negative on him as a player.

 

[Skippos]

Has anyone heard any news on Poulter at Collingwood? Last I heard he is out of contract this season and isn't getting a look in at the moment despite good form in the reserves. I really liked him in his draft year and could be the tall SA mid we are looking for.

Very outside and very poor with disposal.

The physical build is good considering how he moves, but he doesn't seem to want to crack in so is projecting more as a lower work rate/less defensively sound version of Kamdyn McIntosh and less the inside bull we want.