List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[Crowked]

I think McAsey was a very poor selection at 6. However Jones and McHenry are not quite as clear cut. Generally first round picks outside of the first half a dozen are almost as speculative as the second round. They’re not likely to be superstars. They’re more likely to be those good players that make up the numbers in successful teams. We have them in spades. What we’re missing is the superstars. We’ve had 3 picks in the top 6 in recent years and I think we’ve got 2 out of 3 right.

This is why IMO we have to hold on to pick 5 and next year’s first. If we give either of them away for Rankine, we negate the advantage that him nominating us, gives us.

There is no reason that we need to satisfy GC in that trade. Their alternative is nothing. I think we’ll do our best to turn the likes of McAsey and our later picks in both years into something that GC would prefer, but ultimately they don’t have much choice other than to accept our best offer. Believe me, if the shoe was on the other foot, we’d be getting the same from them.

 

[Mutineer]

I’d argue that 20 Dawson touches on the wing would have more impact than 30 at half back.

Like Jarrod Berry the other night 4 disposals up to half time playing wing then when switched to on to the ball obliterated Clayton Oliver with 22 disposals in the 2nd half and basically won the game for Brisbane with his efforts.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Man that is such a rant, RUOK?

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And this is the response of someone who hasnt got a decent response.

Go ahead.. point out whats wrong with what he said. Break it down. Give us the reasoning behind your decision to just simply (and lazily) brand it a rant..

Thats the problem with this forum. Theres a fair few people who read criticisms of the club and simply cannot handle it.. so they lash out with “oh, he’s just a hater” or “wow, what a rant” or “maybe you should go support the power” blah, blah, blah..

But what these same people rarely ever do is provide a reasoned response pointing out what they find wrong with the comment..

Mostly because whats written is actually correct and to come back with a response to that would require them to write a whole heap of nonsense that isnt backed by very recent known history.

The last 5 years of this club and the decisions its made around list management, coaching, drafting, on-field strategy, selection and player development have been utterly deplorable.. some of the worst in the league..

and no finals showings for 5 years and the last three years finishing in the bottom 5, including a spoon, are the end result.

We went from a GF apearance to half a decade of mediocrity.

That is disgusting.

 

[Soggy2112]

Like Jarrod Berry the other night 4 disposals up to half time playing wing then when switched to on to the ball obliterated Clayton Oliver with 22 disposals in the 2nd half and basically won the game for Brisbane with his efforts.

Sorry I’m not really sure what point you’re making here?

 

[Mutineer]

Sorry I’m not really sure what point you’re making here?

Wing can be no man's land especially if the player is playing on the "dead" side of the ground.

 

[tinman]

Does anybody know how we can 'outsource our midfield'? From the crows this sends to be the strategy.

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Pay them to play for other clubs?

 

[Peter Doherty]

I think McAsey was a very poor selection at 6. However Jones and McHenry are not quite as clear cut. Generally first round picks outside of the first half a dozen are almost as speculative as the second round. They’re not likely to be superstars. They’re more likely to be those good players that make up the numbers in successful teams. We have them in spades. What we’re missing is the superstars. We’ve had 3 picks in the top 6 in recent years and I think we’ve got 2 out of 3 right.

Yeah, when you get the people crying about Ned as a first rounder you can see straight through what they are doing. Deliberately not mentioning he was pick 16.

There is no reason that we need to satisfy GC in that trade. Their alternative is nothing. I think we’ll do our best to turn the likes of McAsey and our later picks in both years into something that GC would prefer, but ultimately they don’t have much choice other than to accept our best offer. Believe me, if the shoe was on the other foot, we’d be getting the same from them.

Now that would be something!

 

[DJ75]

He never played full back. He played a kick behind the ball, where he would lead rebound attack from a turnover through his marking ability and his fantastic footskills.

Putting him on a wing means he spends a lot of the game on the fat side, just watching the ball 75m away.

Wingmen just don't get that many disposals, which obviously limits how much influence he would be able to have.

Yeh we played him at half back, except every half decent coach then started dragging him to the goal square at every opportunity.

I'm sorry, but I'd much rather have a guy like Dawson playing through the middle of the ground and delivering inside 50 than kicking out from full back.
A famous coach (whose name I can't remember) once said that you should always put your best players in the position the opposition coach least wants them.
If you were the opposition coach, would you want Fog playing up around the wing, or in the F50? Dawson on the wing or in the backlines?

 

[DJ75]

Man that is such a rant but absolutely spot on. The AFC apologists on here won't like it because it's the truth.

All this magical 50 game rubbish transforming spuds into finals quality players. Have a look at first and second year players in this years finals who are big contributors to their teams success, they didn't need the 50 game mark.

McHenry is 50 games, still the small, slow, low skilled player we drafted in 2018 and has a Nick's Gold Pass!

We carry too many mature players who will never be finals quality players, get us to mid table, but not finals.

Want to hear something disturbing?
Internally, Nicks is already talking about pushing McHenry to the wing in season 2023. With Rankine and Rachele playing, he just has to find a spot for his favourite player...

 

[1990crow]

Want to hear something disturbing?
Internally, Nicks is already talking about pushing McHenry to the wing in season 2023. With Rankine and Rachele playing, he just has to find a spot for his favourite player...

You can’t be serious.

 

[Soggy2112]

Wing can be no man's land especially if the player is playing on the "dead" side of the ground.

Okay, but that doesn’t mean it’s not his best position, if he goes quiet we can always move him in game.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Want to hear something disturbing?
Internally, Nicks is already talking about pushing McHenry to the wing in season 2023. With Rankine and Rachele playing, he just has to find a spot for his favourite player...

Not sure why that’s disturbing. He’s best suited to playing wing/high half forward. Might not be best22 but as long as he’s on the list we should look maximise the talents of all our players

 

[DJ75]

You can’t be serious.

Unfortunately yes. Heard it from a player.

 

[DJ75]

Not sure why that’s disturbing. He’s best suited to playing wing/high half forward. Might not be best22 but as long as he’s on the list we should look maximise the talents of all our players

Do you really want McHenry playing wing? Do you want him kicking the ball into our F50? Do you want him pushing deep into defence and giving frees away there? I don't.

Players I'd rather have playing wing than McHenry:
Dawson
Seedsman
Hinge
Milera
Soligo
Hamill
Jones
Cook
Taylor
Nankervis
Smith
Sholl
Worrell

 

[baldandbroke]

The last 5 years of this club and the decisions its made around list management, coaching, drafting, on-field strategy, selection and player development have been utterly deplorable.. some of the worst in the league..

and no finals showings for 5 years and the last three years finishing in the bottom 5, including a spoon, are the end result.

We went from a GF apearance to half a decade of mediocrity.

That is disgusting.

 

[MRB37]

Want to hear something disturbing?
Internally, Nicks is already talking about pushing McHenry to the wing in season 2023. With Rankine and Rachele playing, he just has to find a spot for his favourite player...

Ah, I can already imagine being at a game, seeing him with acres of space with the ball on the wing, players free in the forward line and he just keeps running and running and eventually gets chased down and caught HTB.

 

[jackster83]

Not sure why that’s disturbing. He’s best suited to playing wing/high half forward. Might not be best22 but as long as he’s on the list we should look maximise the talents of all our players

I'd rather him on a wing than Crouch or Hately.

 

[Scorpus]

Dawson as a half back would be fine if we had a completely different game plan.

If we were setting up behind the ball and slingshotting fast up the ground, having an elite line breaker down there would work super well. His elite skills would create chances.

However how we actually play is slow, methodical, down the line to contests. So Dawson is useless for that. In that sort of gameplan he actually needs to play half forward so his skills and vision can penetrate a sea of defenders that have flooded back

 

[DJ75]

Dawson as a half back would be fine if we had a completely different game plan.

If we were setting up behind the ball and slingshotting fast up the ground, having an elite line breaker down there would work super well. His elite skills would create chances.

However how we actually play is slow, methodical, down the line to contests. So Dawson is useless for that. In that sort of gameplan he actually needs to play half forward so his skills and vision can penetrate a sea of defenders that have flooded back

100% agree.

A question after watching last nights game. It was clear to me that Fremantle were playing far too slow. They kept stopping, holding the ball and then kicking long down the line. I assume the plan was to try and stop Collingwood's fast movement by creating more stoppages. It clearly didn't work.

Has this gameplan ever worked regularly though? I see coaches use it all the time (us included), but it almost always looks like the team that attacks faster wins. I know there is an occasional upset via a grinding slog, but surely if you go into a game with that plan you are admitting you can't win any other way.

 

[BRL121]

100% agree.

A question after watching last nights game. It was clear to me that Fremantle were playing far too slow. They kept stopping, holding the ball and then kicking long down the line. I assume the plan was to try and stop Collingwood's fast movement by creating more stoppages. It clearly didn't work.

Has this gameplan ever worked regularly though? I see coaches use it all the time (us included), but it almost always looks like the team that attacks faster wins. I know there is an occasional upset via a grinding slog, but surely if you go into a game with that plan you are admitting you can't win any other way.

Another aspect was that Collingwood worked out early that Freo were incapable of keeping possession and were very well set up for turnovers, which came regularly. It's very easy to look fast when the oppo are out of position all the time.

 

[Mego Red]

Yeh we played him at half back, except every half decent coach then started dragging him to the goal square at every opportunity.

I'm sorry, but I'd much rather have a guy like Dawson playing through the middle of the ground and delivering inside 50 than kicking out from full back.
A famous coach (whose name I can't remember) once said that you should always put your best players in the position the opposition coach least wants them.
If you were the opposition coach, would you want Fog playing up around the wing, or in the F50? Dawson on the wing or in the backlines?

As an opposition coach, I would rather Dawson on the wing. He'll be out of the play a lot of the time, and wingmen are pretty easy to shut down one-on-one.

I know that clashes with people's "but he needs to be closer to goal!!" but wing is an absolute no man's land.

 

[Mego Red]

Want to hear something disturbing?
Internally, Nicks is already talking about pushing McHenry to the wing in season 2023. With Rankine and Rachele playing, he just has to find a spot for his favourite player...

Why is that bad? One of his strengths is covering a lot of ground, and it gives us a pressure player on the outside.

 

[Mego Red]

Okay, but that doesn’t mean it’s not his best position, if he goes quiet we can always move him in game.

When's he's ice cold?

 

[Mego Red]

Dawson as a half back would be fine if we had a completely different game plan.

If we were setting up behind the ball and slingshotting fast up the ground, having an elite line breaker down there would work super well. His elite skills would create chances.

However how we actually play is slow, methodical, down the line to contests. So Dawson is useless for that. In that sort of gameplan he actually needs to play half forward so his skills and vision can penetrate a sea of defenders that have flooded back

I actually don't mind Dawson at half forward - but I think the reason we've been playing him at half back is because we DO want a fast, attacking rebound game. We just haven't been implementing it.

 

[1970crow]

Silvers said in The Australian that we want to push for finals in 2023.

Rebuild is over Rankine is the final piece

This has been obvious for quite some time. Our version of rebuild was only ever going to try and get us back contending for 6th-8th as quickly as possible.