List Mgmt. 2023 GWS Giants List Management - Academy, Free Agent, Trade, Draft

[Giant Strides]

Trade Period, October 6–18

• Restricted & Unrestricted Free Agency Period: Friday, October 6, 9am – Friday October 13, 5pm (bid matching ends Monday October 16, 5pm)
• Trade Period (1), picks & players: Monday, October 9, 9am – Wednesday October 18, 7.30pm

Quiet Period, October 19–November 20

• Trade Period (2), picks only: Monday, October 23, 9am – Friday November 10, 5pm
• List Lodgement 1*: Tuesday, October 31, 2pm
• Delisted Free Agency Period (1): Wednesday, November 1, 9am – Wednesday November 8, 5pm
• Delisted Free Agency Period (2): Friday, November 10, 9am–5pm
• List Lodgement 2*: Tuesday, November 14, 2pm

Here's the list of GWS players who are out of contract in 2023 (I'll progressively cross them out as they re-sign):

• Lachie ASH
• Callan WARD (Free Agent)
• Brayden PREUSS
• Tom GREEN
• Finn CALLAGHAN
• Lachlan KEEFFE (Free Agent)
• Jake RICCARDI
• Harry HIMMELBERG (Free Agent)
• Cam FLEETON - delisted (25/9/23)
• Matt FLYNN (Free Agent) - signed by West Coast as an Unrestricted Free Agent
• Xavier O'HALLORAN
• Jack BUCKLEY
• Callum BROWN

Rookie lists:

• Phil DAVIS (Free Agent) - retiring at end of 2023 season
• Jacob WEHR (Free agent)
• Dan LLOYD (Free Agent) - retiring at end of 2023 season
• Cooper HAMILTON
• Wade DERKSEN
• Nick MADDEN (Cat B) - assumed re-signed due to 2 sources of info
• Jason GILBEE (Cat B) - delisted (25/9/23)

Current list sizes (for when we get to list/draft/trade speculation):

• main list = 36 minus 3 (Fleeton, Flynn + Kennedy delisted with a view to be re-selected in the rookie draft)
• rookie A = 6 minus 2 (Davis, Lloyd)
• rookie B = 2 minus 1 (Gilbee)
• total = 44 minus 5

This is the future pick spreadsheet that comes into play only at trade time, as future picks are used in end of season (2023) trading:


Here's the 2023 AFL Academy Squad, so these (roughly) represent the best players for next year as they stand now:

2023 NAB AFL ACADEMY​

NAME	SURNAME	STATE	STATE LEAGUE CLUB	COMMUNITY CLUB
Lachlan	Cabor	NSW/ACT	Sydney Swans Academy	Shellharbour
Nate	Caddy	VIC M	Northern Knights	Yarrambat
Jack	Callinan	TAS	Tasmania Devils	Clarence
Caiden	Cleary	NSW/ACT	Sydney Swans Academy	Sydney University
Daniel	Curtin	WA	Claremont	West Coast
Jack	Delean	SA	South Adelaide	Reynella
Zane	Duursma	VIC C	Gippsland Power	Foster
Mitchell	Edwards	WA	Peel Thunder	South Mandurah
William	Green	VIC M	Northern Knights	Northcote
Riley	Hardeman	WA	Swan Districts	Caversham
William	Lorenz	VIC M	Oakleigh Chargers	Boroondara Hawks
Kane	McAuliffe	SA	North Adelaide	Central Augusta
Colby	McKercher	TAS	Tasmania Devils	Launceston
Ashton	Moir	SA	Glenelg	Plympton
Connor	O'Sullivan	NSW/ACT	Murray Bushrangers	Albury
William	Patton	SA	West Adelaide	Mitcham
Nathan	Philactides	VIC M	Oakleigh Chargers	Blackburn
Ethan	Read	QLD	Gold Coast Suns Academy	Palm Beach Currumbin
Archer	Reid	VIC C	Gippsland Power	Inverloch-Kongwak
Harley	Reid	VIC C	Bendigo Pioneers	Tongala
Archie	Roberts	VIC M	Sandringham Dragons	Hampton Rovers
Jake	Rogers	QLD	Gold Coast Suns Academy	Broadbeach
Ryley	Sanders	TAS	Sandringham Dragons	North Launceston
Cooper	Simpson	VIC C	Dandenong Stingrays	Mount Martha
George	Stevens	VIC C	GWV Rebels	South Warrnambool
Koltyn	Tholstrup	WA	Subiaco	Newtown-Condingup
Orlando	Turner	NT	West Adelaide	South Alice Springs
Jed	Walter	QLD	Gold Coast Suns Academy	Palm Beach Currumbin
Nick	Watson	VIC M	Eastern Ranges	East Ringwood
Darcy	Wilson	VIC C	Murray Bushrangers	Wangaratta Rovers

Happy speculating for 2023!

EDIT: 11/12/22 - Added Free Agent status to OOC player list
EDIT: 24/2/23 - Crossed out Tom Green

12

Tom Green

Age

23

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

3star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

5star

from OOC player list! (Woo Hoo!!) & Added 2023 Coates Talent League Fixture Link
EDIT: 27/2/23 - Crossed out Finn Callaghan from OOC player list! (Woo Hoo Hoo!!!)
EDIT: 27/4/23 - Crossed out Jacob Wehr from OOC player list
EDIT: 10/5/23 - Crossed out Jack Buckley from OOC player list
EDIT: 9/7/23 - Crossed out Callum Brown from OOC player list
EDIT: 18/7/23 - Crossed out Lachie Ash from OOC player list
EDIT: 20/7/23 - Crossed out Xavier O'Halloran from OOC player list
EDIT: 3/8/23 - Crossed out Harry Himmelberg from OOC player list
EDIT: 9/8/23 - Crossed out Wade Derksen from OOC player list
EDIT: 17/8/23 - Noted Dan Lloyd retiring at end of season
EDIT: 19/8/23 - Crossed out Jake Riccardi from OOC player list
EDIT: 28/8/23 - Noted Phil Davis

1

Phil Davis

Age

33

Ht

197cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.2

5star

T

1.7

4star

MG

55.5

1star

D

8.5

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

4.1

3star

M

3.4

3star

T

1.3

2star

MG

55.5

1star

D

14.0

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.0

4star

M

5.8

5star

T

1.4

4star

retiring at end of season
EDIT: 25/9/23 - Noted Cam Fleeton & Jason Gilbee delisted
EDIT: 4/10/23 - Noted Flynn, Preuss & Keeffe situations
EDIT: 9/10/23 - Updated Flynn to WCE, removed Preuss from OOC player list
EDIT: 12/10/23 - Updated Madden with 2 sources of information
EDIT: 19/10/23 - Updated Keeffe & Hamilton re-signed
EDIT: 31/10/23 - adjusted main list numbers with Adam Kennedy

40

Adam Kennedy

Age

31

Ht

183cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.9

4star

K

8.4

3star

HB

6.5

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.8

4star

MG

245.6

4star

D

1.0

1star

K

1.0

1star

HB

0.0

1star

M

0.0

1star

T

0.0

1star

MG

10.0

1star

D

18.6

5star

K

9.8

4star

HB

8.8

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.4

4star

delisting (with a view to be re-selected in rookie draft)

 

[Orange Agent]

One thing I will say which I think is a bit concerning is that more than any team our projected selections seem to be known by the wider public.

Clearly the interviews, managers and families talk which often puts messaging out there but we seem to be particularly poor poker players. Perhaps someone in the team has loose lips.

Even though nobody saw us taking Gothard with the 1st selection everybody knew our guys were him and Leake.

Caruso seems very bullish about Gothard, hopefully it’s similar to his affection for Butters? Maybe not taking him influenced him to pounce this time and get the one he really wanted.

He would of had his Bushie's polo if we had committed to him with either of our first round picks.

 

[Orange crush]

He would have had his Bushie's polo if we had committed to him with either of our first round picks.

Caruso clearly said they were committed but as they knew he was coming the afl and Phoenix weren’t told in advance for the reaction factor

 

[Ppollen]

I found it interesting that Caruso clarified that he had Gothard ahead of Caddy in his rankings. He also referenced having very specific set of things that they're look for, which I find intriguing. Must have to do with the character piece and obviously whether they would have long term value for the club while being away from "home". Also competitiveness, drive and ability would have to factor into the equation.

 

[Hendo_21]

We clearly didn’t know what other clubs were doing based on our deals

Hendo you couldn’t be more wrong about teams knowing all the picks. Yes there is a talent order and between managers, last minute interviews, families media things get spread but we are a team known in the industry to be easily read. Compare that to Geelong, nobody knows what they are doing…not even Essendon

I personally think Caruso got a bit spooked by what happened last year where Sydney basically sabotaged our draft.

Also the Butters pick still haunts him. I am glad he really loves Gothard, you can see he was passionate about the pick, when that happens it’s usually on the money.

Twomey hit 21/29 picks right! If on the AFL website isn't widely known then nothing is! Going into the draft people were throwing every scenario under the sun out there for what we might do, people we making jokes on this board about journo's saying every possible scenario to sound like they called it because they have no idea what we're doing. Leading into the draft you could probably get a short list of players that every team is targetting at every pick, you thinking we are some transparent leaky organization just isn't true you are simply mistaken. We seemed to have a pretty good idea of what other clubs because they walked away with their top 2 targets despite trading back.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Twomey hit 21/29 picks right! If on the AFL website isn't widely known then nothing is! Going into the draft people were throwing every scenario under the sun out there for what we might do, people we making jokes on this board about journo's saying every possible scenario to sound like they called it because they have no idea what we're doing. Leading into the draft you could probably get a short list of players that every team is targetting at every pick, you thinking we are some transparent leaky organization just isn't true you are simply mistaken. We seemed to have a pretty good idea of what other clubs because they walked away with their top 2 targets despite trading back.

You think what you want, but you’re wrong.

 

[sydney_gws]

You think what you want, but you’re wrong.

Andre, I wasn't happy with some of last years trading, but hopefully will be proved wrong.
Are you happy with what we did this year?
Or should we have traded 7 for Eagles 2024r1?

 

[Giant Pete]

I think the big factor recently has been getting more speed, and repeat speed on our list.
Whilst it’s just a low pick, the Fonti one is interesting. He is so lightly framed… I think I read he was 73kgs and about 6’2 tall. He will have to put on 10 kegs to mix it at the top level.
Yes, he has good speed, but he’s a couple of years off at best.

 

[Mors]

Andre, I wasn't happy with some of last years trading, but hopefully will be proved wrong.
Are you happy with what we did this year?
Or should we have traded 7 for Eagles 2024r1?

Trading forward to next year pretty much means we lose any player we wanted this year

 

[sydney_gws]

Trading forward to next year pretty much means we lose any player we wanted this year

I wasn't suggesting trading for eagles pick. They might improve alot.
I think all the emphasis on the draft means people forget these kids are all pretty skinny compared to players mainly at least 2 years older than them, only a handful will impact in 2024.

 

[GWS Goose]

You think what you want, but you’re wrong.

How so?
Twomey correctly named where 21 of 29 players were able to go. Which he does pretty much every year. That is a very strong indication there is a lot of knowledge about who is going where.
Everyone knew exactly who was going where for the first 7.
Before the draft Caruso alluded to what was going to happen before them in that little piece they showed. They knew exactly what was about to happen.
The first unknown was us. They presented 3 options, we went with the least tipped option of the Adelaide trade.
We get to our first pick and come up with the first genuine shock of the night. Before most of the next picks go pretty much as expected.
Our next pick is someone not once linked to us. We were one of the least reported. (Not like Geelong who an outlier by perpetually surprising)

Last year, everyone knew about Cadman, which seems to happen every year with the very early picks, there were links to Jones. But no mention of Gruz or McMullen.
XOH a complete shock a few years ago.
Reputation doesn't match actions and reactions .

 

[Andre the Giant]

Andre, I wasn't happy with some of last years trading, but hopefully will be proved wrong.
Are you happy with what we did this year?
Or should we have traded 7 for Eagles 2024r1?

Sydney,

I look at where we were this year and we lost a Prelim by 1 point to the Premiers and we did that with limited input from a bunch of kids taken last year and the year before so our list upside is significant.

For me the opportunity to get a potential Top 3 draft pick in any draft doesn’t come along very often but historically it is a section of the draft that frequently provides difference making talent.

We were very lucky to do a trade that yielded Finn Callaghan, we were lucky again this year to gain a very high pick for Hopper. That was also very diligent trade work from our team and they deserve a lot of credit for that.

I just think Caruso messed up this year. Especially given his affection for Gothard we were very well placed to do the WCE deal and also get that player.

If you look at it, say we traded 8 to WCE and got their future. We still had our second 1st rounder and all our futures. There were several teams that would have traded back for that selection if we added a future so we could have done a deal with and ensured we didn’t miss our number 1 priority.

Now I’m not a prophet, Gothard maybe could have been picked off by someone else and if he turns into an instant impact player and contributes in 24’ that would be a bad outcome for us.

I just feel the team lacked a bit of composure and didn’t maximise our hand. In the future when we are at next years draft if we have won a flag nobody will care! However if we don’t I guarantee when West Coast are picking at 1-3 everyone will be saying why didn’t GWS do that deal?

You can only do what makes the most sense at the time, I feel we did not do that but I hope I’m horribly wrong!!!

 

[GWS Goose]

Sydney,

I look at where we were this year and we lost a Prelim by 1 point to the Premiers and we did that with limited input from a bunch of kids taken last year and the year before so our list upside is significant.

For me the opportunity to get a potential Top 3 draft pick in any draft doesn’t come along very often but historically it is a section of the draft that frequently provides difference making talent.

We were very lucky to do a trade that yielded Finn Callaghan, we were lucky again this year to gain a very high pick for Hopper. That was also very diligent trade work from our team and they deserve a lot of credit for that.

I just think Caruso messed up this year. Especially given his affection for Gothard we were very well placed to do the WCE deal and also get that player.

If you look at it, say we traded 8 to WCE and got their future. We still had our second 1st rounder and all our futures. There were several teams that would have traded back for that selection if we added a future so we could have done a deal with and ensured we didn’t miss our number 1 priority.

Now I’m not a prophet, Gothard maybe could have been picked off by someone else and if he turns into an instant impact player and contributes in 24’ that would be a bad outcome for us.

I just feel the team lacked a bit of composure and didn’t maximise our hand. In the future when we are at next years draft if we have won a flag nobody will care! However if we don’t I guarantee when West Coast are picking at 1-3 everyone will be saying why didn’t GWS do that deal?

You can only do what makes the most sense at the time, I feel we did not do that but I hope I’m horribly wrong!!!

I agree we should have taken the West coast trade and tried to trade back in.
We could have even traded our future first if need be to get the 2 we wanted this year.
However, flip side, they wanted 2 guys and got them.

 

[Andre the Giant]

How so?
Twomey correctly named where 21 of 29 players were able to go. Which he does pretty much every year. That is a very strong indication there is a lot of knowledge about who is going where.
Everyone knew exactly who was going where for the first 7.
Before the draft Caruso alluded to what was going to happen before them in that little piece they showed. They knew exactly what was about to happen.
The first unknown was us. They presented 3 options, we went with the least tipped option of the Adelaide trade.
We get to our first pick and come up with the first genuine shock of the night. Before most of the next picks go pretty much as expected.
Our next pick is someone not once linked to us. We were one of the least reported. (Not like Geelong who an outlier by perpetually surprising)

Last year, everyone knew about Cadman, which seems to happen every year with the very early picks, there were links to Jones. But no mention of Gruz or McMullen.
XOH a complete shock a few years ago.
Reputation doesn't match actions and reactions .

The Adelaide option might have been the least tipped for you but it wasn’t elsewhere, it was the most likely from the point they met with the player and he gave them confidence to select him. Which I personally think was a punt as he is a massive flight risk, he and Wilson were two of the unhappiest picks in the draft!

Twomey has been promoted as some kind of talent guru…please

He is a diligent reporter that talks to all the key people, he’s very respectful with information and therefore gets a clear dissemination of information from recruiters managers and clubs.

Within every year there are talent clusters in lists, this year there was a clear top group, the from the mid teens (if you include the Gold Coast Academy kids) it became quite even. I think it’s fair to say that first group was very predictable but after that whilst some of the players ended up close to where they should the clubs were surprising.

I do like how teams like Geelong are very secretive about their choices. They were interesting this year and went for a lot of mature stuff, very speculative strategy will be interesting to see if it pays off!

 

[GWS Goose]

The Adelaide option might have been the least tipped for you but it wasn’t elsewhere, it was the most likely from the point they met with the player and he gave them confidence to select him. Which I personally think was a punt as he is a massive flight risk, he and Wilson were two of the unhappiest picks in the draft!

Twomey has been promoted as some kind of talent guru…please

He is a diligent reporter that talks to all the key people, he’s very respectful with information and therefore gets a clear dissemination of information from recruiters managers and clubs.

Within every year there are talent clusters in lists, this year there was a clear top group, the from the mid teens (if you include the Gold Coast Academy kids) it became quite even. I think it’s fair to say that first group was very predictable but after that whilst some of the players ended up close to where they should the clubs were surprising.

I do like how teams like Geelong are very secretive about their choices. They were interesting this year and went for a lot of mature stuff, very speculative strategy will be interesting to see if it pays off!

It was least tipped in the media and the wider public (to your initial point).

I dont think that the accuracy of Twomey has anything to do with him being a talent guru and all to do with the fact he gets excellent information and as you say is a dilligent reporter. That is exactly the point I was making. 2 posts ago you said they dont know who they are going to pick, Twomey (and other media outlets) are very accurately able to predict who is coming in every year, so it is known. As Hendo_21 said, nothing is more known than what is on the AFL website.

But to your original point
"One thing I will say which I think is a bit concerning is that more than any team our projected selections seem to be known by the wider public."

this seems completely unfounded. Our picks are certainly not more know than any other team, and as demonstrated above, it seems to be if anything less than most teams.

it seems you opinion comes from someone close to the draft, and maybe other clubs have some success in predicting what we'll do, but the wider public certainly doesn't.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Bottom line is we all have different views on it and time will tell. As I said I really like the conviction that Caruso has shown, there is no grey there, he really wanted that player which is how we want our people to be.

In my experience the worst decisions you make are when there is a lack of passion or conviction.

That lad clearly has a lot of developmental improvement and key attributes that the coaching staff and recruiters place high value on. Caruso has made mistakes in the past but overall his record has been pretty good so happy to back in the pick but wish we had it and the Future 1st rounder as well

You know cake and eat it as well.

 

[sydney_gws]

I agree we should have taken the West coast trade and tried to trade back in.
We could have even traded our future first if need be to get the 2 we wanted this year.
However, flip side, they wanted 2 guys and got them.

We could have tried to add our 2024r1 to the deal.
7,2024r1 for 23,eagles 2024r1,r2.
I think they accept that. That way we can pick again at 30 on the second night of trading.

This is just a suggestion, the above suggestion does have potential flaws.

 

[GWS Goose]

Bottom line is we all have different views on it and time will tell. As I said I really like the conviction that Caruso has shown, there is no grey there, he really wanted that player which is how we want our people to be.

In my experience the worst decisions you make are when there is a lack of passion or conviction.

That lad clearly has a lot of developmental improvement and key attributes that the coaching staff and recruiters place high value on. Caruso has made mistakes in the past but overall his record has been pretty good so happy to back in the pick but wish we had it and the Future 1st rounder as well

You know cake and eat it as well.

on the choice of Gothard, Im far from sold, wouldnt have been my choice.
I just would have taken the WCE 1st (assuming there wasnt too much more to the trade) if I didn't just take Curtin. Either way I think we could have easily got to Gothard anyway.

 

[dlanod]

on the choice of Gothard, Im far from sold, wouldnt have been my choice.
I just would have taken the WCE 1st (assuming there wasnt too much more to the trade) if I didn't just take Curtin. Either way I think we could have easily got to Gothard anyway.

I'm not convinced we would've gotten Gothard or Leake depending on how things played out (bear in mind that our later pick would not have have come forward without the trade), but I would've taken the Eagles' gamble.

 

[GWS Goose]

I'm not convinced we would've gotten Gothard or Leake depending on how things played out (bear in mind that our later pick would not have have come forward without the trade), but I would've taken the Eagles' gamble.

If we had WCE first, and our own future first, we could of traded our original pick and a future second to move up or even trade our own future first back in at some stage to get one or both of Leake and Gothard.

 

[Orange crush]

If we had WCE first, and our own future first, we could of traded our original pick and a future second to move up or even trade our own future first back in at some stage to get one or both of Leake and Gothard.

You need 2 to tango …. Who was giving up a 1st rounder that could get Leake for pick 18 (before bids etc) next year. I’d suggest that we couldn’t get takers and that’s why we knocked back the eagles pick

 

[Giant Pete]

When are the boys back?

 

[Orange Agent]

This year's post draft vid comes across as the most genuine one I've watched over the years. I've doubted how edited they are to make it look like we never miss our targets, but to see the confidence Caruso has in the 2 first rounders is pretty healthy for the players and the team around him. Not many talent guys would be willing to have this on record before anyone has played a game.

 

[Orange crush]

When are the boys back?

Good question ... you'd think they'll be back soon with the new lads heading north to join the club

 

[Wce17]

Hey everyone.

Just Wondering what the knocks on Sam Gillbee where for him to get delisted after only a year?

Asking as he has just be signed up for the Eagles WAFL team.

 

[Hendo_21]

Hey everyone.

Just Wondering what the knocks on Sam Gillbee where for him to get delisted after only a year?

Asking as he has just be signed up for the Eagles WAFL team.

Jason*

Not too sure tbh, he had a pretty productive year for a first-year player in the VFL was a little surprised he was one and done. He's a running machine and didn't struggle too much finding the ball, he's got a real slight and wirey frame so he can struggle to play through contact. He should be perfectly fine in the WAFL.