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List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part I

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mighty_sainters said:
I won’t change my mind on Bing, if a talent like that wants in, you take them.

Caminiti whilst impressing, could easily end up like Sharman.
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100%

Can never have to many good players
 
St Neil said:
Eddie McGuire said exactly the same thing on Footy Classified a couple of weeks ago. Tom has old news.

McGuire suggested Collingwood are keen on Bing but that St Kilda are into him even more. He then went on to allude that St Kilda’s interest in Bing was reciprocated.

Even last night McGuire very briefly asked the open question of whether Ben King was likely to go to St Kilda when Matthew Lloyd suggested he should be looking to play at another Melbourne club. McGuire was quietly reiterating the Saints/Bing link.

McGuire is clearly hearing something behind the scenes.
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hopefully this is on point, however I wonder how much of the origins are from whomever Bings agent is.

'nah its GC or Saints' can mean just that, but also simultaneously mean 'pile the money high enough and Ill see what I can do'
 
gringo2011 said:
Caminiti looks pretty solid at least. Keeler if he makes it has heaps of upside and taking a guy like B King means that there is little chance for those guys to ever make seniors.

Geelong had Hawkins as their beast tall forward who was there to contest and Cameron who I a unique player in that he's as mobile as a midfielder and can also compete like a true tall forward

Richmond have Lynch and Riewoldt who are different types again and Brisbane with Daniher and Hipwood are the other with a pair of tall KPFs. Melbourne has Brown and McDonald or a resting ruck but a spread of other types as well.

I'm a lot more confident that we won't burn draft picks now and would like us to use our FRDPs for a couple of years. Finding a couple more Phillipous would be better management to me. Could end up with $2 million per year tied up in our KPFs in a couple of years too.
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And despite being twins, Max and Ben are very different players too.

Also worth noting that if we continue to improve those first round picks won't be picks in the top ten, they'll be pushed out.

I think we got very lucky that Phillipou made it to 10 last year. The chances of getting another one like him if we ruse up the ladder will drop significantly.

If we were a bottom 6 side I'd me more worried about trading out first round picks but not if we manage to finish top 6.

Max is only on 750k
 
my name was taken said:
hopefully this is on point, however I wonder how much of the origins are from whomever Bings agent is.

'nah its GC or Saints' can mean just that, but also simultaneously mean 'pile the money high enough and Ill see what I can do'
Click to expand...
Eddie wont go with it if he has any doubts
Doesn't let much out but what he does is normally on the money
 

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Joffaboy said:
Gringo was pretty adamant we were topping up in 2019.
While the argument is not without merit, I disagreed as there were so many holes on our list it was the best way to stabilise it.

Now our list is in good shape but using a lot of draft capital on King means we can only go for FA top class mids and I am still.thinking we need mids for a proper flag tilt.
So these older players then cost SC and lots of it. King costs lots of draft capital plus big SC $$.

This is the definition of topping up.

I think we should look at the bigger picture. RTB came in and made it known he was on a year of exploration. Comes put mid week we have 15 plus current players OOC and rhe Saints have made it known they won't look at contracts until second half of the year.
Gres has already put off talks as a RFA.

So to me I feel we are having a cleanout at year end and while that brings in draft capital it won't compensate for two firsts on King or be enough to get an A grade mid in the door by trade.
The way things are shaping, to me anyway, is we are going to reshape our list and topping up trades won't happen to at least 2024.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...
Yep. If Bing wants to come to the Saints make him serve his contract and load up on kids this year. Bing in 2024 and FA's after that.
 
boulders said:
Have a feeling this is why we'll let Gresh leave as a FA this year, so we get 2 x 1RPs and two good kids in this year. Then in 2024 we target Bing with our full hand.
Click to expand...
Not sure we will get a 1st rounder for Gresh
 
Jesuswasacarpenter said:
If it's so s**t why do the punters in Ireland buy it?
Mind you when I was in my early 20's I am sure one night I gave 50 smackers to some bloke for what was later in the night decided to be closer to a washing powder and Vitamin B combo than anything speed related
Anecdotally apparently if your gums go numb it is good...I have seen it chopped up with a card once and it expanded..I was told I was lucky coz I was witnessing premium Product....not sure.
I have never experienced it OS so have no reference
Click to expand...

Haven't been to NYC for years but it was night and day last time I partook
 
im gonna go out on a limb here and change my tune to previous years but i think the stars are finally aligning on Bing. previous years i couldnt see it and TBH the commentary out of the club was pretty ammos like when it came to him. they were open their belief they were getting him, only for him to re-sign with GC.

however i think this year things have turned and i actually think it makes a lot of sense for Ben King and us to make it happen now rather than wait. I think Gubby has been into this in a big way this year.

here's my reasoning:
  1. i think our ladder position is going to remain high... we aint getting another top 10 pick. so we need to be looking at other options in how we can get elite talent,
  2. i think we are in the market for another tall. as great as caminiti has been supported by the likes of Owens. he's still incredibly green and if i re-call correct our efficiency converting inside 50s to score is not good,
  3. i think Ben King is over it up there. i don't think he's in for the long term,
  4. GC need Ben King to extend early or let him go early to maximise their return,
  5. i'm a big believer of getting talent in early over later. even more so given the age of steele and crouch,
  6. we have no long term solution for who pinch hits for Marshall. we are playing cordy FFS and now Owens. i don't like the idea of Owens rucking just for longevity in him,
  7. it will allow us to smooth the cap if this happens sooner rather than later.

i actually think playing the two kings and Caminiti and Owens in the same fwd line can work and work very very well. given all tend to follow up ground ball well. caminiti is quick off the mark for his size. Owens will spend more time in the middle as time goes on. we need someone to replace wood longer term.

also the suggestion of Caminiti to the backline is a very very good one IMO
 
StCicatriz said:
im gonna go out on a limb here and change my tune to previous years but i think the stars are finally aligning on Bing. previous years i couldnt see it and TBH the commentary out of the club was pretty ammos like when it came to him. they were open their belief they were getting him, only for him to re-sign with GC.

however i think this year things have turned and i actually think it makes a lot of sense for Ben King and us to make it happen now rather than wait. I think Gubby has been into this in a big way this year.

here's my reasoning:
  1. i think our ladder position is going to remain high... we aint getting another top 10 pick. so we need to be looking at other options in how we can get elite talent,
  2. i think we are in the market for another tall. as great as caminiti has been supported by the likes of Owens. he's still incredibly green and if i re-call correct our efficiency converting inside 50s to score is not good,
  3. i think Ben King is over it up there. i don't think he's in for the long term,
  4. GC need Ben King to extend early or let him go early to maximise their return,
  5. i'm a big believer of getting talent in early over later. even more so given the age of steele and crouch,
  6. we have no long term solution for who pinch hits for Marshall. we are playing cordy FFS and now Owens. i don't like the idea of Owens rucking just for longevity in him,
  7. it will allow us to smooth the cap if this happens sooner rather than later.

i actually think playing the two kings and Caminiti and Owens in the same fwd line can work and work very very well. given all tend to follow up ground ball well. caminiti is quick off the mark for his size. Owens will spend more time in the middle as time goes on. we need someone to replace wood longer term.

also the suggestion of Caminiti to the backline is a very very good one IMO
Click to expand...
Good post. Borderline ripping 👊🏽
 
bergholt said:
Agree that Crouch wouldn't be in AA discussions yet but if he improved just a little more I reckon he'd be close:

31.0 touches/game (7th in the comp)
13.6 contested/game (12th in the comp)
6.0 tackles/game (14th in the comp)
6.6 clearances/game (13th in the comp)

I guess the inside mids ahead of him are pretty good: Oliver, Cripps, Bont, Laird etc.
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But probably should be if it wasn’t for his reputation. Granted that he’s a fair way back from the big impact players, but should be in front of Laird right now surely.
 
bird_man said:
And despite being twins, Max and Ben are very different players too.

Also worth noting that if we continue to improve those first round picks won't be picks in the top ten, they'll be pushed out.

I think we got very lucky that Phillipou made it to 10 last year. The chances of getting another one like him if we ruse up the ladder will drop significantly.

If we were a bottom 6 side I'd me more worried about trading out first round picks but not if we manage to finish top 6.

Max is only on 750k
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Max is on $750 now but his next contract will be his big one and his brother is already on a fortune. I get that the first round picks aren't top 10 but it still costs to sit out of drafts. Our second round pick comes in the 30s if we are finishing high.

I'm not 100% against getting him but not at any cost. It has to be with an eye on a flag not a story. We have had a bad habit of making emotion decisions over long term ones in the past.
 

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Think Gresh is gone tbh with the current trend of his role compared to last year (if it continues). Will be interesting to see over the next 10 weeks if his role returns to a more midfield centric one.

This year in the 5 games he is averaging 42% of center bounces. pulled up a bit from an outlier of 62% in the WB match.
last year he was 60%, but realistically closer to 70% if removing the low outlier matches which may have been injuries etc

Much lower now even with the absence of Steele for 3 matches.

Clark has gone up from 2% last year to 30%
Sinclair 11% to 23%

You would imagine next year (possibly even this year? when our fwd line returns) Phillipou and Owens begin take on a bigger load as well.

Gresh is probably eyeing up a long term contract, but if another club comes in and pays him big money are we going to match big(ish) money given the 5 year outlook of the team and his injury history.

He is definitely a game changer but its a little sporadic.

I'm not implying he should go, I 100% believe we offer a contract and should do so but if someone swoops in with money, or a contract that is longer (a la brad crouch vs adelaide contract) I can see the option being super tempting.


For the record i found the stats here where you can view for the last 3 seasons
dfsaustralia.com

CBAs - DFS Australia

Centre Bounce Attendances are available from the 2020 season. Average refers to the percentage of CBAs each player has attended for the season (considering only those games they have played). Each round is denoted as percentage of CBAs attended for that round. Centre Bounce Attendance Percentage...
dfsaustralia.com dfsaustralia.com
 
For funs sake… there’s a kid rocking around for Northern Knights this year as an overager, and will be in the U18s Vic Metro/Country trial matches, by the name of Flynn Riley… he’s already 206cm 101kg…

Know nothing else about him, and don’t propose we go after him, but FMD that’s a massive kid!
 
Joffaboy said:
Gringo was pretty adamant we were topping up in 2019.
While the argument is not without merit, I disagreed as there were so many holes on our list it was the best way to stabilise it.

Now our list is in good shape but using a lot of draft capital on King means we can only go for FA top class mids and I am still.thinking we need mids for a proper flag tilt.
So these older players then cost SC and lots of it. King costs lots of draft capital plus big SC $$.

This is the definition of topping up.

I think we should look at the bigger picture. RTB came in and made it known he was on a year of exploration. Comes put mid week we have 15 plus current players OOC and rhe Saints have made it known they won't look at contracts until second half of the year.
Gres has already put off talks as a RFA.

So to me I feel we are having a cleanout at year end and while that brings in draft capital it won't compensate for two firsts on King or be enough to get an A grade mid in the door by trade.
The way things are shaping, to me anyway, is we are going to reshape our list and topping up trades won't happen to at least 2024.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...


Winning footy covers a heap of holes. We probably realistically don't know where we sit until we play finals and see us against the best sides. So far we have fallen short of a slightly undermanned Pies with an undermanned list of our own. Collingwood, Melbourne, Brisbane and Sydney are the sides I rate highest. Essendon, Carlton, Adelaide are around our level. A few others that will trip sides up under them too.

You don't want to do a GWS and fall just short, they had a very good side but fell short and had nowhere to go because they'd maxed their cap. Much like the 2009/2010 Saints. I don't care who they chase and have to trust them but it should all be decisions made with an eye on the ultimate prize, not another sugar hit.

It may be that we are better to keep picking the eyes out of the draft and chase FAs. Is Himmelberg going to give that much less and he would only cost cap space not 2 FRDPs for example.
 
Barrels said:
For funs sake… there’s a kid rocking around for Northern Knights this year as an overager, and will be in the U18s Vic Metro/Country trial matches, by the name of Flynn Riley… he’s already 206cm 101kg…

Know nothing else about him, and don’t propose we go after him, but FMD that’s a massive kid!
Click to expand...
That's getting close to Sandilands size.
 
Ben king situation is the classic Connors sports management. Player spends 6+ years at club, then heads home. Think they like giving the first club loyalty. (Well to some degree). Hopper, Dangerfield, lynch, Shiel, mcstay, etc.
 

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moirae42 said:
Both King's are on massive overs at the moment.
Their next contracts will also be massive overs.
If they actually reach anywhere near full potential, one of them could be the highest paid player in the league.
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I wouldn’t have said Max was massive overs. Top 10 goal kicker last year in a horrible team, by far the youngest key fwd in the 10. Insane upside potential.

There’s 51+ players on $800k or more, happy to pay Max his $750k atm
 
moirae42 said:
Both King's are on massive overs at the moment.
Their next contracts will also be massive overs.
If they actually reach anywhere near full potential, one of them could be the highest paid player in the league.
Click to expand...

there's a degree of marketing involved with Max King that can't be under estimated. he puts bums on seats and he garners interest when we dont really deserve it. he has a bit of the nic nat aura.

so if we are paying him say 800k. he generating atleast half of that a year in interest IMO.

as great as steele is he doesnt attract the interest of say max.

having said that on-field he's delivered in spades so far. he'll only get better.
 
StCicatriz said:
there's a degree of marketing involved with Max King that can't be under estimated. he puts bums on seats and he garners interest when we dont really deserve it. he has a bit of the nic nat aura.

so if we are paying him say 800k. he generating atleast half of that a year in interest IMO.

as great as steele is he doesnt attract the interest of say max.

having said that on-field he's delivered in spades so far. he'll only get better.
Click to expand...
If Max can stay injury free he is going to dominate , every year so far he has increased his goal kicking tally and he is one of the best contested marks in the game - was ranked 3rd last year in total contested marks.
When you look at players like Daniher who are on close to a 900k a year , we have a bargain imo.
People come to see players like King dominate a game - as he showed last year he can turn a game in 15mins of football and at the time just being a 21yr old - just shows how special the kid is.
The same when Lockett played , he drew people more to the game more than Harvey or Winmar and the likes.

I'm wondering if they are going to make a play for his brother.
 
XhazzafootyX said:
I remember getting slammed for not buying into the hype of Sharman last year. Now looking likely to get delisted
Click to expand...
I wouldn't write anyone off - McKenzie was written off but showed more heart than most players in the team , Wood was written off / delisted but look what he is producing and Sharman at 22 yrs of age has a long way to go.
Same goes with Stocker - another player that was written off and delisted.
 
gringo2011 said:
Winning footy covers a heap of holes. We probably realistically don't know where we sit until we play finals and see us against the best sides. So far we have fallen short of a slightly undermanned Pies with an undermanned list of our own. Collingwood, Melbourne, Brisbane and Sydney are the sides I rate highest. Essendon, Carlton, Adelaide are around our level. A few others that will trip sides up under them too.

You don't want to do a GWS and fall just short, they had a very good side but fell short and had nowhere to go because they'd maxed their cap. Much like the 2009/2010 Saints. I don't care who they chase and have to trust them but it should all be decisions made with an eye on the ultimate prize, not another sugar hit.

It may be that we are better to keep picking the eyes out of the draft and chase FAs. Is Himmelberg going to give that much less and he would only cost cap space not 2 FRDPs for example.
Click to expand...
It can be debated about GWS , they had the players but not the game plan and the coach had no plan B.
Melbourne to me are the measuring stick and the Pies not far behind - we get a true marking target in the forward line and Steele and Membery firing we will be hard to beat.
Amazing what happens when the team gel's - we have been playing with a witches hat in Cordy in the team and even the Hammer has shown he is a player but having the best forward 50 contested mark in the AFL back in the team is going to really get us to another level.
 
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