List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[SaintsSeptember]

You’re basing this on a guy that played 3 years ago…they’re all dispensable if we get the right return!

What return do you get for a guy who played 2 years ago?
Why is his potential less than it was when we were drafting him?
What is your agenda for trying to make him sound worse than he is. ( 3 instead of 2 )?

 

[phantom13]

Don't know how much you know about the dogs but VanDemeer is a forward, Richards can play up on the wing as well as HB and Crozier and Duryea are not really in their teams going forward.

If he went to dogs he's up against Dale, JJ and Bailey Williams and he'll be the youngest of the 3.


At saints, he's currently behind Battle, NWM, Stocker, Webster and possibly Sincs and Windy depending on where they play next year.

I still think there's a spot for him as long as his defensive stuff can improve a bit. He's potentially our best interceptor if fit and at his best. He just needs a run at it and if he does get back to his best it gives us the flexibility of moving NWM, Windhager and Sincs to more midfield time.

All those players are listed as backs on the dogs website so take it up with them. Vandermeer is listed at back pocket lining up on Stengle in the AFL app lineups from round 24.

They also have kids and other “utilities” in over supply.

Point still stands, it’s not exactly an open spot for him at the dogs anymore than it is at the saints.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Hah what a *stick, he's just saying something vague that no-one will remember in a month and that can't be falsified

I hope he’s right and we have a big surprise package up our sleeve.
Probably not but.

 

[puppy_dog7]

I'd guess between 8 and 12. Sounds like North aren't getting him but on SEN this morning they said the AFL want to give them a mid first rounder this season and an end of first round pick next year for their effort at poor administration.

I like how they let us sit in our own filth for 10 years but because we slept in our car instead of on a street corner they get given a luxury apartment while we sell our kidney to try to afford to eat still.

It is selling the idea of hard tanking as a model again to clubs that hadn't thought about it for years. Why would you try to stay competitive?

The only possible explanation I can think of is the fact they are without doubt the smallest club in Vic with the lowest chance for growth in regards to where the club is situated both geographically and financially. The AFL would be worried about what impact Tassie will have with regard to high end talent and how it could effect North and potentially keep them down the bottom for 20 years instead of 10.

I think they're propping up North as much as they can now before that happens.

 

[stavro#4]

What return do you get for a guy who played 2 years ago?
Why is his potential less than it was when we were drafting him?
What is your agenda for trying to make him sound worse than he is. ( 3 instead of 2 )?

By the time he lines up for an AFL game again, it will be around 3 years. saintmike65 won't be wrong

and there is a high likelihood based on many a player that has missed this much football in the past, that they don't fulfill their potential.

Look at Nathan Freeman as a good example. It's a long long road back.

and for what it's worth, out of everyone posting on here. Mike goes to more training then anyone. He will have a better gauge on Coffield and the standard he is at. Friends with the legend Stewart66 and he knew his stuff.

 

[stavro#4]

The only possible explanation I can think of is the fact they are without doubt the smallest club in Vic with the lowest chance for growth in regards to where the club is situated both geographically and financially. The AFL would be worried about what impact Tassie will have with regard to high end talent and how it could effect North and potentially keep them down the bottom for 20 years instead of 10.

I think they're propping up North as much as they can now before that happens.

as opposed to us, who has a potential behemoth on its doorstep circling our territory and growth corridor like a great white?

Who had to bottom out during the compromised draft years and rebuilt to put bums on seat without being able to bottom out like North to draft a bunch of potential stars?

its a BS explanation if that's the case

 

[StFly]

The only possible explanation I can think of is the fact they are without doubt the smallest club in Vic with the lowest chance for growth in regards to where the club is situated both geographically and financially. The AFL would be worried about what impact Tassie will have with regard to high end talent and how it could effect North and potentially keep them down the bottom for 20 years instead of 10.

I think they're propping up North as much as they can now before that happens.

Kinda bull about geographical growth limitation, they're just being obstinate about it.

North of Melb CBD there is literal screaming about redevelopments and infrastructure projects, there's a reason why the further north you go the more people DGAF about metroflogs having a cry about cost of a latte. Now I have time for North, they and what was Fitzroy visited my town, used the facilities and said hello to me whilst scantily clad, so they are alright, as are the Doggies from the 90's. What I don't like about North is their "no no went wont go" tantruming about it all. If Ballarat can have 4-5 ovals and Bendigo as well than North can surely figure out how to shimmy a bit to the left or around and build whatever the frig they wish to as people fell over to be "yes please, bring all that love and tourist visitation here thanks" because money into those communities to have things.

But nah, they want to plant their flag, dig a hole, and take a dump only in one spot only, whilst having a cry about how the North is so hard done by and they have nada so please help us from ourselves.

We GTFO to Moorabbin, Hawks GTFO and are moving to Dingley, Dogs have literally 3 suburbs to play in sicne Footscray can't figure itself out and decided on schitzo, North just CBF doing the work so no love for them on that.

 

[phantom13]

By the time he lines up for an AFL game again, it will be around 3 years. saintmike65 won't be wrong

and there is a high likelihood based on many a player that has missed this much football in the past, that they don't fulfill their potential.

Look at Nathan Freeman as a good example. It's a long long road back.

and for what it's worth, out of everyone posting on here. Mike goes to more training then anyone. He will have a better gauge on Coffield and the standard he is at. Friends with the legend Stewart66 and he knew his stuff.

He played round 23 2021 which was August 22. If hes back for round one next year that will be almost exactly 2 years and 6 months so literally in the middle (which to be fair is a big if).

I take your point but Freeman isnt really the example, he was chronic soft tissue, plenty of guys comeback from ACLs really well.

I stand to be corrected but wasnt all the chat about him just prior to doing the knee in 2022 pre season that we was flying and looked ready to rip it up? And then again before the calf/hammy this year the same?

Its taken up alot of pages but i still cant see the upside of walking Coff over 1 year or 2 years on a deal, if its more than that so be it.

 

[stavro#4]

All those players are listed as backs on the dogs website so take it up with them. Vandermeer is listed at back pocket lining up on Stengle in the AFL app lineups from round 24.

They also have kids and other “utilities” in over supply.

Point still stands, it’s not exactly an open spot for him at the dogs anymore than it is at the saints.

We used 32 players all season - which was the lowest in the league

Now, there might be reasons for that such as injuries. But i would say Ross has traditionally used less players as he has favoured backing in his current incumbents in the 22 over chopping and changing from week to week.

If we are talking opportunities. A player might feel like thats not worth hanging around for.

In Comparison, The Dogs used 37 and Bevo and frequently liked to chop and change and rotate players through.

 

[phantom13]

We used 32 players all season - which was the lowest in the league

Now, there might be reasons for that such as injuries. But i would say Ross has traditionally used less players as he has favoured backing in his current incumbents in the 22 over chopping and changing from week to week.

If we are talking opportunities. A player might feel like thats not worth hanging around for.

In Comparison, The Dogs used 37 and Bevo and frequently liked to chop and change and rotate players through.

That’s fine, that doesn’t speak to a wide open spot he just walks into at the dogs though does it?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

By the time he lines up for an AFL game again, it will be around 3 years. saintmike65 won't be wrong

and there is a high likelihood based on many a player that has missed this much football in the past, that they don't fulfill their potential.

Look at Nathan Freeman as a good example. It's a long long road back.

and for what it's worth, out of everyone posting on here. Mike goes to more training then anyone. He will have a better gauge on Coffield and the standard he is at. Friends with the legend Stewart66 and he knew his stuff.

3 years would be August 22 , 2024.

Nathan Freeman had chronic hamstring issues.
What chronic problems did Coffield have? He did an ACL ffs.
So no i'm not looking at Nathan Freeman as a good example. Its a poor example.

Nick's VFL games this year were probably better than his VFL games in 2021.

I'm not suggesting that anyone doesn't know their stuff, but if Coffield has chronic issues what are they, because all we've heard is complications coming back from his ACL.

 

[t_94]

Jeez I'm sick of the media nuffies covering up their embarrassing under assessment of our team by saying we 'over-performed" this year.

Get another job - you underperformed - not the Saints.

Maybe don’t let them live rent free in your head. Makes a difference to enjoyment of footy.

 

[#gosaintas]

By the time he lines up for an AFL game again, it will be around 3 years. saintmike65 won't be wrong

and there is a high likelihood based on many a player that has missed this much football in the past, that they don't fulfill their potential.

Look at Nathan Freeman as a good example. It's a long long road back.

and for what it's worth, out of everyone posting on here. Mike goes to more training then anyone. He will have a better gauge on Coffield and the standard he is at. Friends with the legend Stewart66 and he knew his stuff.

I went to plenty of training also and watching him walking around the oval doesn't give too much insight into how he'll go when fit. He was looking pretty sharp towards the end of the season.
Crazy to not give him a couple of years.

 

[stavro#4]

He played round 23 2021 which was August 22. If hes back for round one next year that will be almost exactly 2 years and 6 months so literally in the middle (which to be fair is a big if).

I take your point but Freeman isnt really the example, he was chronic soft tissue, plenty of guys comeback from ACLs really well.

I stand to be corrected but wasnt all the chat about him just prior to doing the knee in 2022 pre season that we was flying and looked ready to rip it up? And then again before the calf/hammy this year the same?

Its taken up alot of pages but i still cant see the upside of walking Coff over 1 year or 2 years on a deal, if its more than that so be it.

His ACL was 2022.

2023 was a number of Calves and Hamstrings - the one around christmas from memory led to surgery.

He hasn't had just the one injury unfortunately - the length of the recovery on those soft tissues are also alarming. the First calf on the eve of round 1 was listed as 4-6 weeks and he re injured it - another 6-8 weeks.

they sound like some serious soft tissues injuries.

 

[stavro#4]

3 years would be August 22 , 2024.

Nathan Freeman had chronic hamstring issues.
What chronic problems did Coffield have? He did an ACL ffs.
So no i'm not looking at Nathan Freeman as a good example. Its a poor example.

Nick's VFL games this year were probably better than his VFL games in 2021.

I'm not suggesting that anyone doesn't know their stuff, but if Coffield has chronic issues what are they, because all we've heard is complications coming back from his ACL.

see my post outlining his injuries this year above this.

it was a terrible year for soft tissue injuries for him

 

[phantom13]

His ACL was 2022.

2023 was a number of Calves and Hamstrings - the one around christmas from memory led to surgery.

He hasn't had just the one injury unfortunately - the length of the recovery on those soft tissues are also alarming. the First calf on the eve of round 1 was listed as 4-6 weeks and he re injured it - another 6-8 weeks.

they sound like some serious soft tissues injuries.

Yeh I think I covered this, mismanaged rehab with loading (we’ve sacked the s&c guy haven’t we?).

6ish months of calf and hammy stuff off the back of a knee isn’t chronic, it’s knee related. I’ve done both my Achilles in the last 18 months, I’ve done calves accordingly but it’s not at all expected to last once I get the Achilles sorted.

Riting him off based on that’s very premature imo.

 

[ScrappyDo]

McKenzie? $500K? surely not.

He's the odd one out. 500-650 for the others.

 

[BrutThough]

3 years would be August 22 , 2024.

Nathan Freeman had chronic hamstring issues.
What chronic problems did Coffield have? He did an ACL ffs.
So no i'm not looking at Nathan Freeman as a good example. Its a poor example.

Nick's VFL games this year were probably better than his VFL games in 2021.

I'm not suggesting that anyone doesn't know their stuff, but if Coffield has chronic issues what are they, because all we've heard is complications coming back from his ACL.

Also worth noting, we had a high occurrence of soft tissue injuries in players returning from long term injuries this year. That suggests more of a problem with our rehab/high performance approach than it does with any individual being prone to soft tissue injuries.

 

[ScrappyDo]

And that's the point. What we would get in return for Coffield is poor so a lot of us would rather keep him because his upside is much higher than what is typically available with a 4th round pick.

So you're nominating a 4thRDP then?

 

[gringo2011]

We used 32 players all season - which was the lowest in the league

Now, there might be reasons for that such as injuries. But i would say Ross has traditionally used less players as he has favoured backing in his current incumbents in the 22 over chopping and changing from week to week.

If we are talking opportunities. A player might feel like thats not worth hanging around for.

In Comparison, The Dogs used 37 and Bevo and frequently liked to chop and change and rotate players through.

Guys like Billing and Membrey are the type of player you want sitting in reserve for a mid season draft. If a club comes knocking you can charge extra. Having quality depth will be a huge advantage

 

[crasha301]

Mid season player trades will be huge

On CPH2145 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Also worth noting, we had a high occurrence of soft tissue injuries in players returning from long term injuries this year. That suggests more of a problem with our rehab/high performance approach than it does with any individual being prone to soft tissue injuries.

The same guy who did the rehab for Dan and Nath?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

He's the odd one out. 500-650 for the others.

Jones is out of contract , he may well be on Zero next year.
Or he may choose to play for the Saints for less.

 

[stavro#4]

Yeh I think I covered this, mismanaged rehab with loading (we’ve sacked the d&m guy haven’t we?).

6ish months of calf and hammy stuff off the back of a knee isn’t chronic, it’s knee related. I’ve done both my Achilles in the last 18 months, I’ve done calves accordingly but it’s not at all expected to last once I get the Achilles sorted.

Riting him off based on that’s very premature imo.

I haven't written him off.

I see a 1+1 type a deal a perfect representation of risk management and reward for the player.

what you can't dispute is that 2020 was his best year, 5th in the BnF and rewarded very well on his contract extension.

2021 was very poor - resulting in Coff getting dropped.

Put in all the hard work and did his knee in 2022

and 2023 was ruined for the majority of it due to soft tissue injuries.

that is the argument.

Everyone is banging on about his potential and his talent, But he is 24 next month and we actually haven't seen alot of that. To say that he is deserving of a multi year guaranteed deal because he is going to become this player we THINK he will be isnt a great reason too. Alot of players after missing 2 years of injuries just don't turn out to fulfil their potential.

Now, Maybe Coffield will. Great

But i don't see an issue in the club covering itself by offering a 1+1 deal to the player. I think at this point in his career it's up to Coffield to deliver for the club.

and in terms of potential pick we get if he goes? Irrelevant isn't it? That pick hopefully gets on the park and that's more value then where Coffield has unfortunately been the last 2 years.

Yes, that is direct and a tough thing to say. but i want the best for the St Kilda FC - that might not be the best thing for Nick Coffield.

 

[Bertha]

His ACL was 2022.

2023 was a number of Calves and Hamstrings - the one around christmas from memory led to surgery.

He hasn't had just the one injury unfortunately - the length of the recovery on those soft tissues are also alarming. the First calf on the eve of round 1 was listed as 4-6 weeks and he re injured it - another 6-8 weeks.

they sound like some serious soft tissues injuries.

And a distal bicep, which I did early this year and it's a bastard of an injury and takes a long time to recover from - what's interesting is its an injury that generally happens in your 30's and 40's. My understanding is that's a rare thing for someone in their 20's to do, but obviously not impossible.