List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[austinnn]

We aren't that old. Howard is only 27. He'd have 5 years left. Ross, Webster, Hill, Wood and Campbell are our 30 year olds and most probably go until about 32 to 34 these days if they are any good. Collingwood is approaching a cliff with most of their best players around 30 or over. We are a young side still and getting younger.

Gresham is the only one with any value out of those guys which is why we are rolling the dice on him. Coffield and Clark are too old to be worth much now. Probably like Stocker they'd get picked up with a late pick or DFA. Doubt any make our suite of picks more attractive. Your best hope is trade one for a later pick and use it on Dow types.

Gresham had a bad year and is at his lowest value now. He has played some fantastic footy for us. The disrespect he gets on here is a totally OTT.

Richmond won three flags with a pretty solid but pedestrian list and a superstar match winner. If Owens or Phillipou can become a star player in that mould we all of a sudden look much closer to a flag. Get into the top 4 and you have a ticket in the lottery with decent odds. We weren't miles off that this year. Improve 20% and we are getting closer.

Agree with most of this, but the second paragraph is weird. His year wasn't bad at all, probably the best of his last few, and he's got interest from other clubs, so it can't have been that bad.

 

[jimmytigs]

Tom Morris saying Saints likely to use the Gresham FA pick to get Henry,so I think that probably means an end of 1st round pick

if this is right that means all the shiel stuff can be put to bed,surely we not taking shiel on for band 2,band 1 pick 13 yes im on board,band 2 end of first round-byebye shiel,see out your days at windy hill,not trevor barker oval

 

[Premium]

The dopers should be throwing us their 2nd rounder to take Shiel’s contract on for a year.

Idiots


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They dreaming , we would not even be looking at him if he was not involved in getting another first round pick - he is cooked

 

[bird_man]

Tom Morris saying Saints likely to use the Gresham FA pick to get Henry,so I think that probably means an end of 1st round pick

Basically Gresham for Henry then.

I'm not sure I'd consider that a win to be honest.

 

[Premium]

Agree with most of this, but the second paragraph is weird. His year wasn't bad at all, probably the best of his last few, and he's got interest from other clubs, so it can't have been that bad.

We need to be keeping him unless we get offered something stupid for him.

 

[Remboy]

We won’t be using it if it is a first round compensation (pick 13). Henry isn’t worth pick 13.

No, but end of first round would be closer to the mark. I don’t know enough about Henry to know if we’d give 19 or our second. It might something in between.
At least it’s easier to contemplate than involving the Gresh compo in a deal to get Shiel.

 

[Yawkey way]

you have dumb mates then. no world beater but has played some solid football. as has been discussed ad nausea on the main board, the hypothetical is to get Shiel to St.Kilda, Gresham out of Moorabin and a pick to help appease in the Henry trade.

Well you’re dead wrong there but watch how it plays out. We don’t need a second for henry, we’re taking Shiel so Essendon will bump up the offer to Gresham getting us a first round compo pick. Shiel will be traded for a token pick, it’s his salary you want gone. Shiel is after all not in your best 22 and 31 when the season kicks off he has no real trade value.

 

[Premium]

Basically Gresham for Henry then.

I'm not sure I'd consider that a win to be honest.

Gresham can play and can hurt teams when he is on , but a 22yr who has speed and can kick is a better prospect who has far greater upside.

 

[Yawkey way]

Peter Bell will probably think he is worth more than that, pick 13 plus a player, we better not bend over for him like we did in the Hill trade.

Henry would be a nice player to have but he isn't a must have player that you should pay overs for.

I don’t want him full stop, I’d be pretty disappointed if we have up anything more than our second rounder.

 

[Yawkey way]

Basically Gresham for Henry then.

I'm not sure I'd consider that a win to be honest.

Yuck

 

[gringo2011]

Of course they are, Shiel has played 39 games out of a possible 70 in the last 3 years, only averaging 20 possessions once in those 3 years, so I think a 3rd round pick or a 2nd for helping us getting pick 13 would be fair.

Not sure what he's worth to be honest. It seems like a distraction to me but perhaps the deal that gets Billings there and Shiel to us means that both players get a new club and more game time. If Billings is on the outer and the Saints want a mid for a couple of seasons it might be a way for both to save face.

 

[austinnn]

Howard’s body is completely shot and he’s only playing for the money. I know this for a fact. Otherwise he would put the que in the rack.

Howard's body is shot? That's new info to me. Is that legit?


I've seen this "que in the rack" or "take my queue" thing from multiple posters here, so a quick reminder from your neighbourhood spelling nazi:

Q = a letter of the alphabet
Cue = a stick you play pool with
Cue = a signal or event that triggers another event
Queue = an orderly line of people waiting for something in turn

Que = a French and Spanish word meaning "what"

Pretty funny that "queue" is a five-letter word with 4 silent letters. Such a strangely spelt word, even for English.

 

[Premium]

No, but end of first round would be closer to the mark. I don’t know enough about Henry to know if we’d give 19 or our second. It might something in between.
At least it’s easier to contemplate than involving the Gresh compo in a deal to get Shiel.

They are wanting something around the 20 mark by all accounts - they were saying 15 to 25,
I'm hoping we can upgrade our 2nd round pick to seal the deal.
But then again dealing with Bell is a nightmare.

 

[snails13]

We won’t be using it if it is a first rou compensation (pick 13). Henry isn’t worth picks 13.

Think Morris was meaning pick 19 for us

 

[Bertha]

As we've found, the really top players don't often leave their clubs in FA. Also harder to attract them unless you are already in the window and can offer heaps of cash as well.

To me we've done a lot of list damage by trying to be too clever instead of taking the high picks to the draft and trading in a the fringe players to plug holes and hopefully with a decent amount of footy and improvement ahead of them.

List management shouldn't be that complicated and rarely do you get anywhere quicker by rushing it. We are now in a position where 70% of the build is done and we have a good mix of youth and experience.

Not sure going back to the draft in bulk is a good idea. We really need high end players but the chances of finding a kid who comes in and dominates in their first few seasons is so incredibly low once you get outside of the top few picks. Even inside the top few it's as rare as *.

We probably should be keeping Gresham and Howard best 22 types and pushing out guys like Clark who are borderline after a lot of years. They could probably be related by a kid and get near identical output.

Dow and Henry make sense because both have upside potential and should cost FA.

In terms of keeping best 22, it's possible neither Gresham or Howard are best 22 by the end of next season so isn't it better to get something for them now?

And as far as Gresham is concerned, taking RTB at his word, it's Gresham's camp that asked not to rec8eve an offer so they can test the market - so then we run the risk of either a) keeping someone against their will or b) overpaying to retain a player that's not top 10 in the team or c) all of the above.

 

[Plugger35]

I don’t want him full stop, I’d be pretty disappointed if we have up anything more than our second rounder.

That's what we should pay for him but no doubt Bell will want a better offer than that, we hold the whip hand though since Henry wants out of Freo and wants to come to us so if we hold out long enough they should eventually buckle and trade him to us for less than they want.

 

[austinnn]

Tom Morris saying Saints likely to use the Gresham FA pick to get Henry,so I think that probably means an end of 1st round pick

Match and keep Gresh for that I'd think

 

[Premium]

Not sure what he's worth to be honest. It seems like a distraction to me but perhaps the deal that gets Billings there and Shiel to us means that both players get a new club and more game time. If Billings is on the outer and the Saints want a mid for a couple of seasons it might be a way for both to save face.

Could well happen but I'd rather have Billings as depth, I feel he can still play where Shiel has battled to play half a season for the last 4 years

 

[kernelT]

The thing with Shiel is that he can still be that explosive midfielder when fully fit, albeit not at his AA best. Essendon played him there for the first 8ish weeks of the season and he averaged like 87 rating points and 24ish possessions from around 60% cbas. When he got moved to half forward, that's when he was out of form and was being criticised.

At the Saints, he'll be a full time midfielder (I'd assume) with at least 60 or 70% centre bounce attendances, which according to his early-year form, would result in an average of 25 explosive disposals more or less. Considering how cheap we'd be getting him and our salary cap room now, its a small risk well worth taking to help our midfield improve.

If he’s attending most of our centre bounces next year we’re going backwards, stunting development and I will have explosive diarrhoea.

 

[BrutThough]

In terms of keeping best 22, it's possible neither Gresham or Howard are best 22 by the end of next season so isn't it better to get something for them now?

And as far as Gresham is concerned, taking RTB at his word, it's Gresham's camp that asked not to rec8eve an offer so they can test the market - so then we run the risk of either a) keeping someone against their will or b) overpaying to retain a player that's not top 10 in the team or c) all of the above.

Howard is as likely, if not more, to play every game next year as our starting full back as he is to have Cordy overtake him for the entire season.

 

[St Neil]

Peter Bell will probably think he is worth more than that, pick 13 plus a player, we better not bend over for him like we did in the Hill trade.

Henry would be a nice player to have but he isn't a must have player that you should pay overs for.

Hill was contracted for an additional 3 years. Henry is OOC. Different scenarios.

Henry is not worth pick 13 despite a vastly improved latter part of the season.

 

[Bertha]

So 2 late firsts and a 2nd?

On top of the 2nd and 3rd already received

That's quite some hand outs

Plus the extra picks last year which they blew like a hooker on the pc in St Kilda

 

[Premium]

Howard is as likely, if not more, to play every game next year as our starting full back as he is to have Cordy overtake him for the entire season.

Have to agree with that.

 

[Yawkey way]

you have dumb mates then. no world beater but has played some solid football. as has been discussed ad nausea on the main board, the hypothetical is to get Shiel to St.Kilda, Gresham out of Moorabin and a pick to help appease in the Henry trade.

Here’s something for you yoda, I’ve heard a few players aren’t a huge wrap for Brad, Dedoro was given the opportunity to fall on his sword and that your cap space is widely off the mark and includes sunk money tied up with the new CBA.

 

[Premium]

Hill was contracted for an additional 3 years. Henry is OOC. Different scenarios.

Henry is not worth pick 13 despite a vastly improved latter part of the season.

I was hoping our pick 30 would do it