List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

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To me our biggest weakness is speed on the wings for depth. We have three viable options, but I would not mind a winger/forward that plays a combination.

If you're looking at the bottom 6 players in our team currently, it feels like a combination of Owies, Fogarty, Cotts, Hollands, Fantazia, Carroll... Then we're an inside midfielder with a little burst short, I would like to replace a Kennedy with a player with some burst, even Hewett with some burst of speed.
We drafted Ollie and Binnsy a few years back to address our lack of run. You just need to go back to that video clip from draft night, and the comment from Austin to Voss.

The issue we have is that they are both elite runners who can find the ball, but neither have any leg speed. Draft Central rated them both as 'average' after the combine. Anyone below that rating were a few big plodding ruckmen.

Which is why I'm not 100% convinced that both will make it, especially with the Campo boys breathing down their necks in the next few years. Ollie I'm more hopeful of, but Binnsy is still a watch for me despite having a great year at VFL level.

We brought Billy in as that burst of speed player we were in desperate need of. He'll more than likely end up in the midfield despite playing him right now in a half back role - but needs to put on size before he's let loose on the cut and thrust of AFL. I saw him in the scratch match against the Tiggs a few weeks ago where he was rotated in the centre bounces, and easily buffeted off the ball by VFL listed players. Just needs a bit of time, but gives us that point of difference that Austin kept mentioning during the draft.
 
Walsh isn't an elite kick, he's a fantastic link player and ball winner. Very good decision maker too but his strength isn't his kicking like Gulden's is.

Realistically McCluggage would be a perfect target if he wasn't so high in demand regarding how much he'd cost in a bidding war. Think our best chance of adding elite kicks is across the half forward line where they don't cost nearly as much as a Rolls Royce mid like McCluggage.

Right now we just have to hope E.Hollands, Moir, Fantasia and Motlop can show enough improvement this year that we don't need to address it in the off season. Still think we lack an elite kick forward of centre outside of H and Charlie though.
Cerra is probably our neatest kick …that left foot to Kennedy was exquisite. I think we’d all like to see more of this.

Good kicks to leading players in the f50 cuts up defence like no other…great viewing also.

agree with what youre saying re Walsh but I reckon if he focussed more on lace out passes he would get better.
 
Would love to look at Bailey Smith. Brings a different dimension to our Midfield. Only issue is his injury history.
 

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Yep he is a required player since Kemp is still developing and hasn't even played 50 games yet and Austin has stuffed up the 2ndKPD management of the list. I like Marchy - but I will never be surprised to see him unavailable he is a week to week proposition in my book.

How has Austin stuffed up KPD management of the list?

I would have preferred one drafted in the last 2 drafts to develop for a few years in the magoos but if they’re not there at your picks then you don’t reach significantly just to fill a non existent hole.

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How has Austin stuffed up KPD management of the list?

I would have preferred one drafted in the last 2 drafts to develop for a few years in the magoos but if they’re not there at your picks then you don’t reach significantly just to fill a non existent hole.
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Austin has also brought in some ready made players with what little capital he had in Young, Durdin and Oscar Mcdonald.

I am super impressed with Austin's work and really hope he has a long career with us.
 
You did not disprove any of my statements or add anything to the conversation.

I stated the players which were in our bottom 6 players, hence this is often an area where we could find improvement.

So if you disagree with my statement, feel free to make an alternate suggestion on which areas we should like to improve with regards to list development.

Weirdly aggressive response...

I'm not trying to disprove your "opinions", I was offering my viewpoints on the points you raised. Our "bottom 6" mostly already have upgrades waiting in the wings, so the improvement doesn't need to come from recruitment.

Carroll - Walsh
Fantasia - Hollands
Fogarty - Durdin
Owies - Motlop

Cottrell underrated and as I've alluded to elsewhere I don't think his is a position you overspend on, he's punching well above his salary and therefore is fantastic value.

Hollands is a second year player with a high ceiling, and at his worst he's still working his arse off defensively. You don't invest Pick 11 in a hard-running winger, have him exceed most expectations in his first season, then start planning to replace him when he has two quiet games to start his second season.

I think the improvement mostly comes from stability, continuity and confidence. The biggest barrier for us now is going to be depth - we've scraped through without Walsh, Weiters, Doc, Martin, Pitto and JSOS these last few weeks, which is great but the attrition of a long season could still cause some problems.

Given our list profile (age and position), and the relatively ordinary pool of free agents this season, I think a year where we just top up via the draft is fine. 2x Campos and some senior/rookie shuffling adds to our midfield depth in the short/medium term. Next year draft a key defender and hit the free agency market hard for a Rayner, Ballard or Spargo depending on how things pan out with Martin/Moir, Marchy/Kemp and Cunners/Hollands/Fantasia.

I agree that Hewett looks a good candidate for replacement/upgrade, but I do harbour some reservations about whether you want to replace him with a ball-hunter given that leaves us without a more defensively-minded on-baller. If we can find one of those rare hard-nosed defensive mids who has burst and good skills (ala Rowbottom) I'm all for it, but who knows....maybe that's Olli Hollands or Ben Campo in the next couple of years anyway.
 
Frankly, it's just too early to be having reasonable thoughts about list management.
We've got a really good list, probably the best in the league.

But for most of our uncontracted players, we need to see the season play out. It could go either way for many of them.
Players like Martin, Marchy and Cunners could play key roles in a flag, or they could hardly get on the park.
Players like Owies and Fog could hold their spot, or get over-taken by younger players, and therefore be depth only.
 
Not sure where the idea we have no key position players has come from.

Weitering is an elite full back.
Marchbank when fit is an elite CHB.
Curnow and McKay are elite FF and CHF both with Coleman medals to their name.
They are all free to play football this weekend.

Young is a backup fullback who can come in and keep guys like Lynch and Daniher to 0-2 goals a game. Don't know if many teams have that depth.
Sam Durdin was playing well enough in the VFL last year to nearly come into our preliminary finals side.
Lemmy is a really promising general key position player.

Then we have the pinch hitters.
Kemp can pinch hit as a CHB and is ok in this role despite being undersized.
Silvagni has pinch hitted as a key forward.
DeKoning has played as a key forward.
O'Keeffe plays a bit of key forward in the VFL, thought is probably 95% ruckman.
We have proven we can beat good sides with one of the key forwards out.

We are not short on key position players. Having said that, it would not be bad list management if we drafted one with the future in mind.

What we are short on is smaller marking forwards. With Silvagni out for the season and Martin in and out of the side and DeKoning playing first ruck there really isn't anyone else who is presenting up front. We have drafted Moir which is good recruiting but we are all unsure how far away he is.
 
oh well I'm in the mood for a reply

Oscar McDonald was on the list for two years and played what was it ? 2 games or thereabouts
Durdin has been on the list for two years now and has played how many games?
Young?? you gotta be kidding me - he is the biggest liability in defense makes the other 5 have to cover for his sillies pretty much every time he is involved - very wary of list managers who pick up dumped players from their previous Clubs ie trying to make a mistake previously into a win in the future.

Marchbank isnt a KPD and neither is anyone else apart from Weitering.

that's why I have stated Austin has mucked up KPD choices - sure, Austin has done a good job everywhere- except - back-up for and or (even) a developing KPD.
 
oh well I'm in the mood for a reply

Oscar McDonald was on the list for two years and played what was it ? 2 games or thereabouts
Durdin has been on the list for two years now and has played how many games?
Young?? you gotta be kidding me - he is the biggest liability in defense makes the other 5 have to cover for his sillies pretty much every time he is involved - very wary of list managers who pick up dumped players from their previous Clubs ie trying to make a mistake previously into a win in the future.

Marchbank isnt a KPD and neither is anyone else apart from Weitering.

that's why I have stated Austin has mucked up KPD choices - sure, Austin has done a good job everywhere- except - back-up for and or (even) a developing KPD.
Yeah, I wouldn't expect both Young and S.Durdin to be on the list next year. Young is contracted for a few more years, so unless he requests a trade, big Nigel is probably in the cross hairs at the end of the year - although as an aside I reckon another club will snap him up for free given the ridiculous prices placed on 2nd rate KPD's the end of 2023.

Similar with our ruck stocks. Probably don't need 2 development rucks running around, when TDK is still only 24yo, and Pitto is more than a handy back up - and Harry now doing some pinch hitting. Even last year when both TDK and Pitto were out for the Freo game, they brought Young in as the break glass ruck - hardly won a tapout all game, but our midfielders just fed off their big blob and we spanked them.

List spots are going to be at an absolute premium the end of the year, so we've got to be clever with our trades/drafting. Which is also why I'll be fascinated to see what we do in the MSD. We'll potentially have another 1-2 additional players on our list as well as the Campo twins walking through the door at the end of 2024.
 
Cerra is probably our neatest kick …that left foot to Kennedy was exquisite. I think we’d all like to see more of this.

Good kicks to leading players in the f50 cuts up defence like no other…great viewing also.

agree with what youre saying re Walsh but I reckon if he focussed more on lace out passes he would get better.
I'm taking Boyd or McGovern over Cerra when it comes to kicking.

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oh well I'm in the mood for a reply

Oscar McDonald was on the list for two years and played what was it ? 2 games or thereabouts
Durdin has been on the list for two years now and has played how many games?
Young?? you gotta be kidding me - he is the biggest liability in defense makes the other 5 have to cover for his sillies pretty much every time he is involved - very wary of list managers who pick up dumped players from their previous Clubs ie trying to make a mistake previously into a win in the future.

Marchbank isnt a KPD and neither is anyone else apart from Weitering.

that's why I have stated Austin has mucked up KPD choices - sure, Austin has done a good job everywhere- except - back-up for and or (even) a developing KPD.

Austin’s picks & trades have largely been wingers and flankers. Motlop, Durdin, Ollie H, Moir, Elijah, etc. Still early days but Ollie H and Motlop showing great signs. Not sure where C Durdin is at. Moir, Elijah, Wilson - way too early to tell.

But probably time to focus on more talls and quality mids, which are arguably harder to pick and more crucial to building / maintaining a quality team. The engine room.

He got Cerra through trade, which was a great get.

Think Austin has a good eye for talent but needs to get more quality “engine room players” and more creative during the trade period and trading draft picks.




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Austin’s picks & trades have largely been wingers and flankers. Motlop, Durdin, Ollie H, Moir, Elijah, etc. Still early days but Ollie H and Motlop showing great signs. Not sure where C Durdin is at. Moir, Elijah, Wilson - way too early to tell.

But probably time to focus on more talls and quality mids, which are arguably harder to pick and more crucial to building / maintaining a quality team. The engine room.

He got Cerra through trade, which was a great get.

Think Austin has a good eye for talent but needs to get more quality “engine room players” and more creative during the trade period and trading draft picks.




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I'm not talking about anything remiss - except Carlton's lack of KPD depth - either by trade or by lack of draft - thought I have made that pretty lear in every post I've made. We need a strong back-up for Weitering - a second genuine KPD is the biggest hole in our entire list.
 

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I'm not talking about anything remiss - except Carlton's lack of KPD depth - either by trade or by lack of draft - thought I have made that pretty lear in every post I've made. We need a strong back-up for Weitering - a second genuine KPD is the biggest hole in our entire list.
No AFL quality key position player is going to hang around to be a backup
 
I did hear on Gettable that Twomey said Charlie Comben may be exploring his options this year, he'd be a good project KPD. Huge athleticism and looked really good in a few match sims for Norf but made some stupid decisions on occasion.

Reminds me a bit of Jonesy early days, has a natural aggression in his game from when I've watched him play KPF, which is generally the knock on L Young for us. He's a good size too.
 
Carroll - Walsh
Fantasia - Hollands
Fogarty - Durdin
Owies - Motlop

Cottrell underrated and as I've alluded to elsewhere I don't think his is a position you overspend on, he's punching well above his salary and therefore is fantastic value.

I agree with all your points you make. With regards to cover and list make up currently.
With regards for future list development, I would like more speed and kicking skills in the back half. Then I would not mind an inside midfielder with a little burst from packs. Campo twins are going to cover a few list needs but the addition of Wilson as a concept (Quick inside midfielder with HBF potential) was great.

Cotts is a great example of the modern day forward, just runs up and down the flanks, covering ground and helping the defensive unit.
 
No AFL quality key position player is going to hang around to be a backup
Weitering would be the best CHB in the game - no reason Carlton can't fit two big boys in the team.
 
Frankly, it's just too early to be having reasonable thoughts about list management.
We've got a really good list, probably the best in the league.

But for most of our uncontracted players, we need to see the season play out. It could go either way for many of them.
Players like Martin, Marchy and Cunners could play key roles in a flag, or they could hardly get on the park.
Players like Owies and Fog could hold their spot, or get over-taken by younger players, and therefore be depth only.
Reads like an argument for trading high-value fringe players to improve our list balance and profile.
 
I just read an article on the AFL website saying that Isaac Cumming is an unrestricted free agent at the end of the year. He would be a very handy pickup. Aside from topping up our key defensive stocks, we should be prioritising quality ball use especially if it doesn’t involve draft capital. Our half back line is our oldest - Saad, Williams (and Doc).
 
Weitering would be the best CHB in the game - no reason Carlton can't fit two big boys in the team.
Pretty sure to achieve this outcome we would need to give something up of value to get higher up the draft, as there has been some good key position talent in the past two drafts.
Alternatively targeting a free agent, it would seem evident we have not had alot of cap space in the last 2 drafts/trade periods.

As mentioned on here yesterday we are better off targeting someone like a Busslinger whom we rated in his draft year, but not sure it is as simple as you make it out to be.
 
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I'd take Zac Bailey off their hands
 

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